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Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

Who is talking about a "current direction?" I didn't see that in the premise of this thread. How is this direction any different from the PREVIOUS administration?

The premise of the thread was clear; it maintains that Petreaus endorsed Obama’s PLAN to close Gitmo. There is no Obama PLAN and Petreaus did not endorse anything in his comments.

Please indicate the exact quote where Petreaus is endorsing Obama’s plans.

What part of this premise do you NOT get?


Obama's PLAN is to close GITMO. Petraeus supports the close of GITMO. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

I have a plan to get lunch. Does the fact that I don't know if I am going to get a sandwich or salad mean I am not getting lunch?
 
Truth Detector insists writing nonsense responses over parcing words.

Supporting----endorsing.....Salad bar....

How trite coming from the person who made this farcical claim:

So here we have the Republicans favorite General endorsing The Presidents plan to close Gitmo. In fact he says "I think, sends an important message to the world, as does the commitment of the United States to observe the Geneva Convention when it comes to the treatment of detainees."
I'm curious to hear what the torture deniers have to say about this Four Star General's comments reguarding closing Gitmo and His Endorsment of President Obama?

Do they still support this troop?

Carry on. :roll:
 
I am neutral and still respect Petraeus. I am wondering how those who lambasted him as a traitor before are going to react to him now that he is voicing an opinion they agree with.
Well if that's truly your intention then go find the thread from 2007 and see who was bashing Petraeus and then ask your question to them.
 
As a request, is there any way we could cut out the 5 year old, school yard idiocies of "Shrub" and "Maobama" by any chance and have...I don't know...a grown up conversation? If not, cool, no need to respond. But I figure its worth putting in the request.
 
I doesn't matter who supported who for what ever reasons in the past. The fact is that Petreaus made a statement in support of Obama as Colin Powell did and in my view it is most interesting to see how people on the Right are reacting to it. The people on the left are in control and deserve support and deserve to acknowledge the support they are getting.

The Right has the tendency to throw people under the bus that do not agree with them.

Should I list the long list of Generals and commanders on the ground who were fired because they spoke up against Bush and Cheney?
 
As a request, is there any way we could cut out the 5 year old, school yard idiocies of "Shrub" and "Maobama" by any chance and have...I don't know...a grown up conversation? If not, cool, no need to respond. But I figure its worth putting in the request.





Absolutley. The easiest way for Chairman maobama not to make an appearance is if my opponets refrain from instigating with "Shrub" comments and the like. It is sorta the same goal as what you requested. though I did take the low road. ;)



But I will do one better and refrain for the duration of this thread. :2wave:
 
Obama's PLAN is to close GITMO. Petraeus supports the close of GITMO. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

I have a plan to get lunch. Does the fact that I don't know if I am going to get a sandwich or salad mean I am not getting lunch?

Well if merely saying you want to close Gitmo is a plan, then Obama and Petreaus must then be endorsing George Bush, not the other way around right?

Guantanamo Bay Prison may close: Bush

June 09, 2005 19:33 IST

President Geoge W Bush has hinted for the first time that US may close Guantanamo Bay prison camp in Cuba, amid widespread outrage over reported desecration of Islamic holy text Koran and criticism from rights groups about ill-treatment of detainees there.

"We are exploring all alternatives as to how best to do the main objective, which is to protect America. What we don't want to do is to let out somebody that comes back and harms us," Bush told Fox News Channel on Wednesday night when asked about the prospect of closing the facility, which holds some 540 terrorists and terror suspects.



Bush says he would like to close Guantanamo
Posted on: Sunday, 7 May 2006, 12:58 CDT
By Noah Barkin

BERLIN (Reuters) - President George W. Bush said he would like to close the U.S.-run prison at Guantanamo Bay -- a step urged by several U.S. allies -- but was awaiting a Supreme Court ruling on how suspects held there might be tried.

"Of course Guantanamo is a delicate issue for people. I would like to close the camp and put the prisoners on trial," Bush said in comments to German television to be broadcast on Sunday night. The interview was recorded last week.
 
I doesn't matter who supported who for what ever reasons in the past. The fact is that Petreaus made a statement in support of Obama as Colin Powell did and in my view it is most interesting to see how people on the Right are reacting to it. The people on the left are in control and deserve support and deserve to acknowledge the support they are getting.

Woah woah woah woah woah....WOAH.

Hold on a moment, you've entered into contradiction land.

It doesn't matter who supported who for what reasons in the past....yet the ENTIRE basis for your thread is asking if Republicans STILL support him. How can you even ask that if your not referencing the fact that, in the past, the republicans DID support him? Yet you're NOW trying to say that it doesn't matter who supported who in the past? I'm sorry, but that in no way, shape, or form makes any amount of logical sense in the least. Its back peddling, plane and in full view.

Not to mention, where is this notion coming from that somehow because one side in power we must fully support them. I take it you were on message boards loudly proclaiming the wrongness of Hillary Clinton stating that dissention is the highest form of patriotism? Or deriding liberals who were complaining about a fully republican controlled government? Are the notions of minority rights in our legislative branch and built in protections so that even those not in power can potentially stop things if they feel it is not in the countries best interest just not really there?

Not to mention, is there not a difference between questioning, disagreeing, and not supporting? Could I not question a companies approach to doing things, disagree with said companies approach in the end, but still donate to said company to support their business? And would it not be entirely different if instead of just disagreeing with said company I came out and decided to claim that company is criminal?

The Right has the tendency to throw people under the bus that do not agree with them.

As does the left. Politicians in general do. For the right you can look at Jeffords and Specter, on the left you can look at their treatment of Lieberman and Miller. Its a politician thing, not a "right or left" thing.

Should I list the long list of Generals and commanders on the ground who were fired because they spoke up against Bush and Cheney?

No, because while discussing the lefts reaction to this information equally with the rights is actually on topic as theres absolutely ZERO reason for two breaking news threads about the exact same topic simply to discuss "the left" and "the right", there is nothing on topic about Generals and commanders speaking up against Bush and Cheney and getting fired as that's an entirely different conversation.
 
Woah woah woah woah woah....WOAH.

Hold on a moment, you've entered into contradiction land.

It doesn't matter who supported who for what reasons in the past....yet the ENTIRE basis for your thread is asking if Republicans STILL support him. How can you even ask that if your not referencing the fact that, in the past, the republicans DID support him? Yet you're NOW trying to say that it doesn't matter who supported who in the past? I'm sorry, but that in no way, shape, or form makes any amount of logical sense in the least. Its back peddling, plane and in full view.

Not to mention, where is this notion coming from that somehow because one side in power we must fully support them. I take it you were on message boards loudly proclaiming the wrongness of Hillary Clinton stating that dissention is the highest form of patriotism? Or deriding liberals who were complaining about a fully republican controlled government? Are the notions of minority rights in our legislative branch and built in protections so that even those not in power can potentially stop things if they feel it is not in the countries best interest just not really there?

Not to mention, is there not a difference between questioning, disagreeing, and not supporting? Could I not question a companies approach to doing things, disagree with said companies approach in the end, but still donate to said company to support their business? And would it not be entirely different if instead of just disagreeing with said company I came out and decided to claim that company is criminal?



As does the left. Politicians in general do. For the right you can look at Jeffords and Specter, on the left you can look at their treatment of Lieberman and Miller. Its a politician thing, not a "right or left" thing.



No, because while discussing the lefts reaction to this information equally with the rights is actually on topic as theres absolutely ZERO reason for two breaking news threads about the exact same topic simply to discuss "the left" and "the right", there is nothing on topic about Generals and commanders speaking up against Bush and Cheney and getting fired as that's an entirely different conversation.

That would be all well and fine if and only if the those on the Right choose to discuss their past relationship and beliefs reguarding Petreaus and his current comments reguarding his support for Obama. But for the most part they want to discuss the lefts past relationship reguarding Petreaus..period.

They want to ignore the OP...isn't that clear?
 
Well if merely saying you want to close Gitmo is a plan, then Obama and Petreaus must then be endorsing George Bush, not the other way around right?

And that's exactly why I stated previously actions speak louder then words. Bush's actions dictate that he never meant for GITMO to close under his watch and his administration backs that by eluding that the closing of GITMO would be a national security vulnerability to the US, overturning legislation giving detainee's rights to a trial,


Guantanamo Bay Prison may close: Bush

June 09, 2005 19:33 IST

President Geoge W Bush has hinted for the first time that US may close Guantanamo Bay prison camp in Cuba, amid widespread outrage over reported desecration of Islamic holy text Koran and criticism from rights groups about ill-treatment of detainees there.

"We are exploring all alternatives as to how best to do the main objective, which is to protect America. What we don't want to do is to let out somebody that comes back and harms us," Bush told Fox News Channel on Wednesday night when asked about the prospect of closing the facility, which holds some 540 terrorists and terror suspects.

Exploring options after a scandal does not equate to looking to close gitmo.

Bush says he would like to close Guantanamo
Posted on: Sunday, 7 May 2006, 12:58 CDT
By Noah Barkin

BERLIN (Reuters) - President George W. Bush said he would like to close the U.S.-run prison at Guantanamo Bay -- a step urged by several U.S. allies -- but was awaiting a Supreme Court ruling on how suspects held there might be tried.

"Of course Guantanamo is a delicate issue for people. I would like to close the camp and put the prisoners on trial," Bush said in comments to German television to be broadcast on Sunday night. The interview was recorded last week.
What did Bush do after the Supreme Court came back and ruled that the trials held there violate both US law and the Geneva convention?
 
General Petraeus is just the latest military leader to back yet another of Obama's decisions.

What else would you expect a good officer to do? If he had a difference of opinion with the civilian leadership, he would handle it in private, but publicly he's going to support those leaders whose orders he has sworn an oath to follow.
 
What else would you expect a good officer to do? If he had a difference of opinion with the civilian leadership, he would handle it in private, but publicly he's going to support those leaders whose orders he has sworn an oath to follow.

Wouldn't that mean that his credibility when he spoke in favor of Bush administration decisions somewhat suspect too? I am not saying you are not right, I dunno for sure. He is either some one who stands up for what he believes in vocally, or he is doing his soldierly duty and agreeing with his boss. Either way I like the guy, and will give him the benefit of the doubt in this case. I did not last time, and might have been wrong.
 
Wouldn't that mean that his credibility when he spoke in favor of Bush administration decisions somewhat suspect too? I am not saying you are not right, I dunno for sure. He is either some one who stands up for what he believes in vocally, or he is doing his soldierly duty and agreeing with his boss. Either way I like the guy, and will give him the benefit of the doubt in this case. I did not last time, and might have been wrong.

No, because at the time, President Bush was his boss. Now he has a new boss. He basically has 3 choices here...rebel against the new boss quietly and retire, rebel openly and be retired, or do his job and publicly support his boss. He's doing exactly what's expected of any good officer.
 
That would be all well and fine if and only if the those on the Right choose to discuss their past relationship and beliefs reguarding Petreaus and his current comments reguarding his support for Obama. But for the most part they want to discuss the lefts past relationship reguarding Petreaus..period.

They want to ignore the OP...isn't that clear?

We know what our past relationship regarding Petreaus has been. It appears that you guys on the left still have some confusion about it. You supported moveon, you didn't support moveon. Moveon thinks he's a betrayer, moveon doesn't think he's a betrayer...Seems like the more interesting conversation is with that.

You didn't honestly think the right would sit here and let you devote an entire thread to beating them over the head with the fact that (oh the horror!!!) Petreaus is supporting the commander in chief's orders, did you? :confused:

It just doesn't seem odd to anyone with half a brain that a general would support the decisions of the Commander in Chief. I mean, I guess I can see how that might appear odd to the classless left, but it doesn't seem odd to anyone with any integrity and respect for the office of president. :shrug:
 
No, because at the time, President Bush was his boss. Now he has a new boss. He basically has 3 choices here...rebel against the new boss quietly and retire, rebel openly and be retired, or do his job and publicly support his boss. He's doing exactly what's expected of any good officer.

I should have read further down before posting...:2wave:
 
I should have read further down before posting...:2wave:

No worries. I'm amazed at the number of people that think that any military officer's opinion really matters when speaking publicly, or that it is his or her own opinion.
 
No, because at the time, President Bush was his boss. Now he has a new boss. He basically has 3 choices here...rebel against the new boss quietly and retire, rebel openly and be retired, or do his job and publicly support his boss. He's doing exactly what's expected of any good officer.

Maybe I was not being clear. If Petraeus is willing to testify to whatever his CinC wants him to, does that not mean it could have been the case when President Bush was that CinC?

If we start questioning his honesty in testimony, then we have to question it all.
 
Maybe I was not being clear. If Petraeus is willing to testify to whatever his CinC wants him to, does that not mean it could have been the case when President Bush was that CinC?

If we start questioning his honesty in testimony, then we have to question it all.






Wait.....when did he "testify"?
 
Maybe I was not being clear. If Petraeus is willing to testify to whatever his CinC wants him to, does that not mean it could have been the case when President Bush was that CinC?

If we start questioning his honesty in testimony, then we have to question it all.

Testify? I thought this was an interview with a newspaper?
 
No worries. I'm amazed at the number of people that think that any military officer's opinion really matters when speaking publicly, or that it is his or her own opinion.

There are ways a military person can express their own opinions in the media that is legal and possible. It would mean possible death to a long range carreer, but some one like Petraeus is pretty safe from that, both in being at the approximate end of his career, and being untouchable due to his high public profile.
 
There are ways a military person can express their own opinions in the media that is legal and possible. It would mean possible death to a long range carreer, but some one like Petraeus is pretty safe from that, both in being at the approximate end of his career, and being untouchable due to his high public profile.

There are no untouchable military officers. Just remember Douglas MacArthur.
 
So let me get this straight, Petraus is endorsing Obama's policy on Gitmo, which is essentially "do nothing".

alrighty then.
 
There are no untouchable military officers. Just remember Douglas MacArthur.

I dunno in this case. The world is significantly different from the 50's, and the media coverage of world events is very different. Any attempt to remove him after he spoke in disagreement of the administration would cause a political firestorm that I doubt most presidents would want.

It's not an absolute untouchableness(is that a word), but it is pretty safe.
 
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