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Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

ADK_Forever said:
Your posts supply all the humor we can handle. It seems Catz Part Deux put you in your place quite nicely.

Enjoy your version of the proverbial ostrich hole.
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Unnecessary. I think that more is accomplished with mutual respect and dialogue than will ever be accomplished by hysteria and villifying our opponents.

I tend to believe that both sides of the political spectrum are well-intentioned and want what is best for this country. We just disagree at times.

Probably that's why I'm in the middle, and beholden to neither. :wink:
 
danarhea said:
Hey come on, the first thread on this subject got sent to the Basement for crap like this. Please stop it. Your post has been reported.
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Then have your "friend" stop accusing me of saying things I didn't.
 
TheNextEra said:
Then have your "friend" stop accusing me of saying things I didn't.
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If you have a problem with someone, then report the post, but quit ****ing up my thread.
 
danarhea said:
If you have a problem with someone, then report the post, but quit ****ing up my thread.
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Seems you are the one ****ing it up right now. Take your own advice.
 
celticlord said:
Fine and dandy. But harping on Bush's non-crimes is looking back not looking ahead.
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Looking back to learn from mistakes is vital to creating a strong future.
 
celticlord said:
Never said that, claimed that, or hinted at that. I said Bush's and his Administration's actions were not criminal.
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How can you make that blanket claim without all the evidence? We know there is plenty we do not know on the issue, and yet you are jumping to a conclusion without all the evidence.
 
celticlord said:
There's no "might" about it.

If folks want to eschew waterboarding and enhanced interrogation techniques, and Dear Leader wants that to be the policy of his administration, so be it, and pray God no terrorist strikes occur as a result.

If folks want to tar and feather those that set a different policy, that's a problem--and a stance not in keeping with the historically articulated values of this country.

What makes the lunatic left's position so offensive is the sheer hypocrisy the lunatic left applies to the situation: Gitmo is bad, but Bagram Air Base is good; Bush detentions were bad, but Dear Leader detentions are ok; Bush waterboarding is torture, but we reserve the right to do it if we need to, since we realize that it did obtain actionable intelligence.

Make the policy change if that's what is desired. I actually support that. Do not criminalize past policy. That deserves no support.
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Interesting spin, if highly inaccurate. You cannot draw any conclusion about the likelihood or not of another terrorist attack based on a change in interrogation policy that has any accuracy. You are making a wild assumption to boost your point.

I am not sure that most people want to tar and feather anyone. We just want answers, and to know all that went on. Then we can at least make an accurate judgment on who to condemn.

To the best of my knowledge, those opposed to torture do not want us to keep it as an option in any case.

I think, though am not sure, that most of us opposed to torture are not seeking any prosecutions. I know(and you know) that I am not.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
I hate to break it to you, TD, but I have it on good authority, from my sister in law who served for 3 years there, that GITMO is, in fact, U.S. soil.

:rofl
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It's not considered "CONUS" an is in a quasi "US soil" state.


This is why cubanos have to swim to FL, not hop the fence at GITMO....
 
WillRockwell said:
They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security. - B. Franklin

I find it disturbing that the loudest "patriots" are those who would throw away that part of America for which generations shed the most blood...our integrity and honor.
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Says the guy who wants to ban certain weapons for cosmetic reasons... :lol:



What liberty is being given up here? How is this even relevant?
 
Lerxst said:
I've already discussed this report (not O'Reilly's interview, but the actual report). The ONLY verified instance of actionable information is KSM's tower plot. That's ONE. I've not said "it never works." In fact I've acknowledged it worked with him. What you have provided is a rehash of points already made, point I'm aware of, points I've discussed. This is actually the basis for my statement of "one or two out of 50 or 100 doesn't mean torture is effective."
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Or it more likely means, its not effective when its used against those who don't actually know anything. That is the problem I stated as #1.

Lerxst said:
I can discuss both because both are relevant. I'm not moving the goalposts at all, I'm discussing the entire issue of torture and it's all within the scope of the debate. If you are uncomfortable playing on such a large field then don't play. But nobody has moved any goal posts here, and you can't show evidence of me doing this.
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I've broken the topic down into two aspects. If you don't understand the importance in discussing topics in their respective parts I.E., that #1 and #2 are independent aspects, then we are done here. I'm not going to play this goal-post-shifting-game where every time one aspect is discussed the other aspect is brought up as a red-herring when one's reasoning is faltering. However, I'm not saying we can't or shouldn't discuss both aspects.

Lerxst said:
That's your opinion. The problem is that it's not "well established."
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Of course. There isn't enouhg data and there hasn't been a public study (that I'm aware of) to prove it one way or the other (once again, I AM ASSUMING #1 IS ESTABLISHED). But neither is your opinion that its ineffective when its used on people where #1 is established.
 
scourge99 said:
Or it more likely means, its not effective when its used against those who don't actually know anything. That is the problem I stated as #1.
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The problem is that you don't know who does and doesn't know anything, and torture can incent someone who doesn't know anything to make **** up.

This ain't rocket science, dude.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
The problem is that you don't know who does and doesn't know anything, and torture can incent someone who doesn't know anything to make **** up.
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So you can't fathom any way one can reasonably determine that a person may know something?

This ain't rocket science, dude.
 
scourge99 said:
So you can't fathom any way one can reasonably determine that a person may know something?

This ain't rocket science, dude.
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I can think of several ways to determine that a person knows something. Torture doesn't rank very high on the list.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Worked is an important term to define. Particularly given that the FBI agent assigned to deal with KSM noted that the torture strategies didn't develop any new information that hadn't already been gained by traditional interrogation tactics.

Thus, terror DIDN'T work, per se. Because, if we are going to step into that realm, it better work a whole hellalot better than legal means. It actually is LESS effective, according to the FBI's lead interrogator.

Thus, waterboarding (and other enhanced interrogation methods), were a huge mistake, because not only did they demean our national identity, THEY FAILED TO DELIVER NEW INFORMATION. These tactics failed on TWO levels.

I'm not going to rely on my own claims, but I'll let the FBI's lead interrogator in this area speak for me:

The Agent In Place: Torture Didn't Work - The Atlantic Politics Channel


So, the term to describe waterboarding someone 83 times when time is of the essence: SLOW. Ineffective. Unreliable.

That isn't "working".
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Oh, I agree with you on this. The term "worked" is a misnomer, but it's better than saying it was "effective."

I'll take my lashes now please.
 
celticlord said:
There's a good deal wrong with me, of that there is no doubt.

And in fact I am angry.

I am angry at the blubbering drivel being spewed by lunatics who would criminalize government policy--who would, to assuage their guilty consciences, crucify men and women who did their duty as they saw it to be, with authorizations and clarifications emanating from up the chain of command.

I am angry at the mewling and phony outrage that inspires those self-same self-righteous lunatics to engage in a witch hunt looking for crimes that do not exist and have never existed simply because they choose to pathologically hate President George W. Bush.

I am angry that these self-same self-righteous lunatics would offend the Constitution and the rule of law by pretending their indignant persecutions have any basis in law, justice, or even common decency.

I am indeed angry, and so I guess there's a bit less wrong with me than I first surmised....this is a good thing.

So again...thanks for sharing!:2wave:
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Well since you brought it up, I am of the opinion that you need get some professional help. Your anger is clearly misplaced and certainly indicative of some other underlying problem given how completely off base your thoughts are.
 
Lerxst said:
Well since you brought it up, I am of the opinion that you need get some professional help. Your anger is clearly misplaced and certainly indicative of some other underlying problem given how completely off base your thoughts are.
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Dude, the only professional help I require is that of a reputable microbrewery.
 
Lerxst said:
Yes well that person has been thread banned now. Care to debate my points?
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What would be the point?

On the other hand, we could debate whether Bill Clinton perjured himself. But what would be the point? The history is written.

Bush and Cheney will not be prosecuted for torture or any other imagined crimes. It's not going to happen. The history is already written.

I understand that you're disappointed.

If Bush had a law license, perhaps it could be suspended and he could be disbarred. Would that make you happy?

:2wave:
 
Grateful Heart said:
Bush and Cheney will not be prosecuted for torture or any other imagined crimes. It's not going to happen. The history is already written.
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Whoooo thar sonny. The ink ain't even on the paper yet. And the more ink that does hit the paper, the worse your boys will look. :2wave:
 
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