Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

danarhea said:

You know, in my first post, I asked if Erich Mancow would magically become a Liberal to the hyperpartisans. And, of course, the hyperpartisans didn't let me down.

The subject of this thread is not about Liberal assertions, nor is it about Nancy Pelosi, nor Obama, nor the man in the moon. The subject of this thread is about how a Conservative (NOT a Liberal) volunteered to be waterboarded, how being waterboarded changed his mind, and why he now believes that waterboarding is torture.

All your Liberal bogeymen are nothing but red herrings, which make your whole argument patently dishonest.

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Wait a minute Dan, you caught me off guard with this asinine notion that this entire debate has nothing to do with Liberals, Conservatives or politics and I didn't have time to get my hip waders on.

[Hip waders now on]; Dan, this entire debate is exactly what I said it is; it is a political attempt to IMPUGN a previous administration for purely hyper partisan political purposes.

Now maybe in your fantasy world this is not a partisan issue, but in the REAL world where most of us do play, this stinks of partisanship.

Why can I say this you may ask; because the very Democrats making such hysterical claims were also BREIFED on these techniques before and after they were used.

Now you can pretend that this is merely an attempt to assert that water boarding is torture, which it is not based on the TRUE definition of what constitutes torture – the requirement of SEVERE physical or mental pain, but people with BRAINS can actually comprehend the desperate denial it would take to suggest that this is a NON-PARTISAN issue. :rofl

What makes such asinine assertions even MORE laughable is that they were made on a POLITICAL debate forum called "Debate Politics."

Carry on Dan; your desperate attempts to avoid REALITY are only exceeded by your farcical and hysterical notions about hyperpartisans.

Re: Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

zimmer said:

Three. As in: One, two, threeeeeeeeeeeeee.
Three people were water boarded.

Waterboarding and the special effects program of interrogation went through legal review.
Pelosi knew it and said nothing.

Holder recently blew the entire "torture" sideshow about waterboarding out of the water.



End of story.

We have no intent to do permanent harm.
Waterboarding is not an act of vengeance or retribution.
Waterboarding is used in dire circumstances with uncooperative individuals who could have information that could save lives.

It was used three times.
Which shows it was used in cases where getting information was critical to national security.

And it produced results quickly.

What is torturous is witnessing gobs of ignorant Americans tying the hands of those trying to protect this country, criminalizing their behavior, generally crapping on the United States, the troops and their leaders (Betrayus) and the intel services that defend them... as Pelosi has and so many Libs do.

That takes a special effort in skirting intellectual curiosity.

.

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Bravo Zimmer, pretty much puts the emotional hysterics, lies and distortions typified by ADK and Slippery's arguments in perspective doesn't it? :rofl

Truth Detector said:

Wait a minute Dan, you caught me off guard with this asinine notion that this entire debate has nothing to do with Liberals, Conservatives or politics and I didn't have time to get my hip waders on.

[Hip waders now on]; Dan, this entire debate is exactly what I said it is; it is a political attempt to IMPUGN a previous administration for purely hyper partisan political purposes.

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They actually seek to criminalize their behavior.
Trying to get State Bars to disbar these individuals has been mentioned.
Group Seeks To Disbar Top Bush Legal Advisers | AHN | May 26, 2009

I think a couple words from Justice Thomas during his confirmation sums up, not what they seek to do, but what have actually done to date:
(Political) "Lynch Mob".

.

Re: Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

zimmer said:

Cheney has publicly asked Obama to release what these interrogations have produced. I hope he continues to hold Obama's feet to the fire, calling him out with every parsing of the facts he participates in.

Obama gave only part of the story, that which HE could use as a political weapon. He failed to reveal what was achieved.

I wonder why?

Don't you, or do you lack intellectual curiosity?

.

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Dick Cheney is the master at leaking classified information, including the covert status of Valerie Plame. If he had information that torture is justified, he would have released it. So besides this vapor trail, what has torture achieved?

If you believe anything Dick Cheney says, you clearly lack not only intellectual curiosity but any sort of hold on reality.

Truth Detector said:

Wait a minute Dan, you caught me off guard with this asinine notion that this entire debate has nothing to do with Liberals, Conservatives or politics and I didn't have time to get my hip waders on.

[Hip waders now on]; Dan, this entire debate is exactly what I said it is; it is a political attempt to IMPUGN a previous administration for purely hyper partisan political purposes.

Now maybe in your fantasy world this is not a partisan issue, but in the REAL world where most of us do play, this stinks of partisanship.

Why can I say this you may ask; because the very Democrats making such hysterical claims were also BREIFED on these techniques before and after they were used.

Now you can pretend that this is merely an attempt to assert that water boarding is torture, which it is not based on the TRUE definition of what constitutes torture – the requirement of SEVERE physical or mental pain, but people with BRAINS can actually comprehend the desperate denial it would take to suggest that this is a NON-PARTISAN issue. :rofl

What makes such asinine assertions even MORE laughable is that they were made on a POLITICAL debate forum called "Debate Politics."

Carry on Dan; your desperate attempts to avoid REALITY are only exceeded by your farcical and hysterical notions about hyperpartisans.

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Bolded quote 1) Are you therefore saying that the CONSERVATIVE who changed his mind after being waterboarded is part of the movement to impugn Bush merely for political purposes? He voted for Bush, and was an ardent Bush supporter, so once again, we come down to the fact that either Erich Mancow, a staunch Conservative, is now being falsely labeled as part of the Liberal agenda, or Liberal red herrings are being presented in order to throw the discussion off of the real issue, which is why a Conservative is now against waterboarding after experiencing it. That is the real issue, and the subject of this thread.

Bolded quote 2) There is absolutely no excuse for such inflammatory statements, and personal attacks, and no place for it in this thread. Your post has been reported.

Re: Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

WillRockwell said:

Dick Cheney is the master at leaking classified information, including the covert status of Valerie Plame. If he had information that torture is justified, he would have released it. So besides this vapor trail, what has torture achieved?

If you believe anything Dick Cheney says, you clearly lack not only intellectual curiosity but any sort of hold on reality.

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1. It isn't torture. Holder just proved it.
2. Valuable info was acquired from KSM.
3. Ask Obama to release what was achieved, something he did not do when releasing sensitive information. Why not release the full picture so the people can make a fact based judgment?

Does the name Richard Armitage mean anything?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwJCUZHZjV8]YouTube - Richard Armitage Admits Plame Leak "Extraordinarily Foolish"[/ame]

The interesting bit beyond providing you news the GEICO Caveman knew, is Plame's name was on a memo and no coverts names appear on memo's... only analysts.

CNN.com - Armitage admits leaking Plame's identity - Sep 8, 2006

Cheney asks for Obama redacted material to be open.
Doesn't it make you curious? The material and why Obama chose to deal from the bottom of the deck?
Or does it make you nervous?

.

Jerry said:

Quite simple: my personal comfort level is higher than yours.
Now, I do not mean "higher" as in "superior", I mean "higher" as in "more tolerant"; smiler to pain tolerance, ironically.

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So I assume from your dismissal of the effects of waterboarding as something acceptable to your "personal comfort level", that you have indeed been waterboarded and know what the hell you are talking about?

Re: Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

zimmer said:

1. It isn't torture. Holder just proved it.

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not quite following the dim logic of this statement

2. Valuable info was acquired from KSM.

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KSM revealed his information 4 years after he was waterboarded.

3. Ask Obama to release what was achieved, something he did not do when releasing sensitive information. Why not release the full picture so the people can make a fact based judgment?

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If there were anything there, why wouldn't Cheney have released it before January 20?

Does the name Richard Armitage mean anything?

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yes, he's a stooge for Dick Cheney

The interesting bit beyond providing you news the GEICO Caveman knew, is Plame's name was on a memo and no coverts names appear on memo's... only analysts.


Cheney asks for Obama redacted material to be open.
Doesn't it make you curious? The material and why Obama chose to deal from the bottom of the deck?
Or does it make you nervous?

.

Click to expand...

People who have seen the files say there is nothing there. I have no reason to believe Dick Cheney on anything.

Re: Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

zimmer said:

Three. As in: One, two, threeeeeeeeeeeeee.
Three people were water boarded.

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If it was so effective, why wasn't it used on more prisoners?

Waterboarding and the special effects program of interrogation went through legal review.

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Legal? R U serious? :roll:

Pelosi knew it and said nothing.

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This fantasy still has not been proven.

Holder recently blew the entire "torture" sideshow about waterboarding out of the water.
End of story.

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link?

We have no intent to do permanent harm.
Waterboarding is not an act of vengeance or retribution.
Waterboarding is used in dire circumstances with uncooperative individuals who could have information that could save lives.

Click to expand...

1st do don't matter. Last is a big fat lie.

It was used three times.

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It was used 183 times. Read much?

Which shows it was used in cases where getting information was critical to national security. And it produced results quickly.

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It got NO useful infor. The guy that actually used other techniques on Abu testified to such. Abu was talking to him. As soon as the CIA amateurs were ordered by Cheney to waterboard, he clammed up. Everytime they used wb on him he clammed up.

What is torturous is witnessing gobs of ignorant Americans tying the hands of those trying to protect this country, criminalizing their behavior, generally crapping on the United States, the troops and their leaders (Betrayus) and the intel services that defend them... as Pelosi has and so many Libs do.And it produced results quickly.

I guess the fact that this has been illegal in the USA and internationally for decades doen't matter to you, ehh? :roll:

That takes a special effort in skirting intellectual curiosity.

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Your entire line of reasoning is nothing but Bushie rhetoric and lies puked up on demand. This nonsense carries no weight and fools no one.

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The radio jock that MANCOW GUY ( not to be confused with Rachel Madcow ) that tried the waterboarding is on Keith Udderrman right now and he admiited he would have admitted to "anything" if he was being questioned while he was undergoing waterboarding. Mancow said that yes this was orture.

Mancow also said that Shaun Vanityy called him and Vanity who CHICKENED out of his promise to undergo waterboarding told MANCOW that it was"not torture. This is just another reason why I call VANITY Vanity because he is one big chicken scared craphead phoney. Shaun the Phoney is one piece of crap and all run of the mouth. If I was a GOPPER I would be ashamed to admitt that Shaun Vanity is in the same party !!!

Here is a list of the things Khalid Sheik Mohammed confessed to. The only things I find missing are the Kennedy assasination and fixing the Superbowl:

The February 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center in New York City
A failed "shoe bomber" operation
The October 2002 attack in Kuwait
The nightclub bombing in Bali, Indonesia
A plan for a "second wave" of attacks on major U.S. landmarks after the 9/11 attacks, including the Library Tower in Los Angeles, the Sears Tower in Chicago, the Plaza Bank Building in Seattle and the Empire State Building in New York
Plots to attack oil tankers and U.S. naval ships in the Straits of Hormuz, the Straits of Gibraltar and in Singapore
A plan to blow up the Panama Canal
Plans to assassinate Jimmy Carter
A plot to blow up suspension bridges in New York City
A plan to destroy the Sears Tower in Chicago with burning fuel trucks
Plans to "destroy" Heathrow Airport, Canary Wharf and Big Ben in London
A planned attack on "many" nightclubs in Thailand
A plot targeting the New York Stock Exchange and other U.S. financial targets
A plan to destroy buildings in Eilat, Israel
Plans to destroy U.S. embassies in Indonesia, Australia and Japan in 2002.
Plots to destroy Israeli embassies in India, Azerbaijan, the Philippines and Australia
Surveying and financing an attack on an Israeli El-Al flight from Bangkok
Sending several "mujahideen" into Israel to survey "strategic targets" with the intention of attacking them
The November 2002 suicide bombing of a hotel in Mombasa, Kenya
The failed attempt to shoot down an Israeli passenger jet leaving Mombasa airport in Kenya
Plans to attack U.S. targets in South Korea
Providing financial support for a plan to attack U.S., British and Jewish targets in Turkey
Surveillance of U.S. nuclear power plants in order to attack them
A plot to attack NATO's headquarters in Europe
Planning and surveillance in a 1995 plan (the "Bojinka Operation") to bomb 12 American passenger jets
The planned assassination attempt against then-U.S. President Bill Clinton during a mid-1990s trip to the Philippines.
"Shared responsibility" for a plot to kill Pope John Paul II
Plans to assassinate Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf
An attempt to attack a U.S. oil company in Sumatra, Indonesia, "owned by the Jewish former [U.S.] Secretary of State Henry Kissinger"
The beheading of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl

Slippery Slope said:

And thereby you could also say that the islamic jihadist is moral in his society as well.

The point the "we-deny-it's-torture-until-enough-of-us-admit-it-is-and-now-our-mantra-is-we-don't-care-that-it's-torture" people seem to miss is that unless there are some basic moral issues that apply to all people then all you are left with is what a given society determines is or isn't moral.
'If torture is good enough for the worlds leader to use, then it's good enough for us to use too...'

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The problem with your analysis is that the above was deemed true before we waterboarded a soul. The jihadist was considered moral both before and after in their society.

Maybe someone has mentioned this but Mancow was waterboarded under conditions that gave him no fear for his life. Prisoners who are waterboarded may believe that they will actually be drowned. There is a big difference being waterboarded for real and being waterboarded as an experiment or media stunt.

goldendog said:

so you're comfort level alllows for breaking American laws reguarding waterboarding and violating international treaties in reguards to warcrimes?

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Yes.


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Jerry said:

Yes.


...............................

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Bwahahahahahahaha............ :rofl

Jerry said:

Yes.


...............................

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So does your comfort level allow for those that condoned and approved of such unlawful acts be tried in a court of law and if found guilty the proper punishment be handed down by the courts?

As we have done with other countries in the past?

Slippery Slope said:

And thereby you could also say that the islamic jihadist is moral in his society as well.

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Let's just cut the BS.

The islamic jihadist is moral at least in his own mind. He is, in his own mind, courageous, righteous, even honorable. His cause is noble, his spirit pure. Whether other muslims agree or not is irrelevant; whether we agree or not is irrelevant. To the islamic jihadist, he is noble, we are ignoble; he is is saintly, we are sinners; he is righteous, we are infidels.

Don't pretend that the islamic jihadist has any moral qualms about what he does. He doesn't. His morality is not ours. It is neither better nor worse, it is merely different.

That is the order of things.

goldendog said:

So does your comfort level allow for those that condoned and approved of such unlawful acts be tried in a court of law and if found guilty the proper punishment be handed down by the courts?

As we have done with other countries in the past?

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Give them a Presidential Pardon at every opportunity, imo.

WillRockwell said:

So I assume from your dismissal of the effects of waterboarding as something acceptable to your "personal comfort level", that you have indeed been waterboarded and know what the hell you are talking about?

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I embrace the effects of waterboarding...that's why I support it's employment.

Jerry said:

I embrace the effects of waterboarding...that's why I support it's employment.

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Nazi's tortured people to protect the homeland.

And supported the apparent benifits of it's employment.

goldendog said:

Nazi's tortured people to protect the homeland.

And supported the apparent benifits of it's employment.

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Which proves that evil is not the same as stupid.

Re: Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

Truth Detector said:

Bravo Zimmer, pretty much puts the emotional hysterics, lies and distortions typified by ADK and Slippery's arguments in perspective doesn't it? :rofl

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No it doesn't. It means we have a CIA memo indicating that ONE subject who was subjected to torture provided actionable information. One. That does not mean that torture is effective across the board, it means that torture worked on that one individual. Nothing more.

Of course the idea of being the "good guys" doesn't matter to you armchair hotshots anymore does it? I'd love to see the way you react after being waterboarded 183 times.

goldendog said:

Nazi's tortured people to protect the homeland.

And supported the apparent benifits of it's employment.

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I invoke Godwin's Law.

Two Jewish children are sitting on top of a roof near a chimney. A passer-by asks, 'What are you doing there?'


'We are waiting for our parents.'

Re: Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

Lerxst said:

No it doesn't. It means we have a CIA memo indicating that ONE subject who was subjected to torture provided actionable information. One. That does not mean that torture is effective across the board, it means that torture worked on that one individual. Nothing more.

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That actually overstates it a bit. In one case, we got some intelligence using EIT's. There is no way to know if we would have gotten similar, or better, or nothing using standard interrogation methods.

Jerry said:

I invoke Godwin's Law.

Two Jewish children are sitting on top of a roof near a chimney. A passer-by asks, 'What are you doing there?'


'We are waiting for our parents.'

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Oh.

My.

God.

That.

Was.

Brutally.

Funny.

:lol:

:shock:

:rofl