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Obama wins over notre dame

hazlnut said:
Depends. What are the cirmcumstances that brought the woman/girl to have to make this choice?
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Why? If it's strictly a medical procedure to remove an unwanted medical condition, why the hesitation. You KNOW why....
 
jallman said:
Which was an irrelevant framing of the question, which I pointed out. Morally isn't the issue here. Medical ethics are the issue.
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Medical ethics start with the [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath]Hippocratic Oath[/ame]:

I swear by Apollo, the healer, Asclepius, Hygieia, and Panacea, and I take to witness all the gods, all the goddesses, to keep according to my ability and my judgment, the following Oath and agreement:
To consider dear to me, as my parents, him who taught me this art; to live in common with him and, if necessary, to share my goods with him; To look upon his children as my own brothers, to teach them this art.

I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone.

I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.
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So much for the "ethics" of abortion.

Also, the goal of abortion is the slaughter of a human being.

Ergo, abortion isn't compatible with medical ethics.


jallman said:
If I must repeat again for our less shining students, morally it is acceptable too because it is a morally neutral situation.
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No. It's not morally neutral.
 
TheNextEra said:
Yeah we all know how much you conservatives LOVE the 1st amendment like when those wearing T-shirts against Bush were escorted away from him and the responses were along the lines of "Well that is the right of Bush".

****ing hypocrites.
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I"m not a conservative.

Better luck next time.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Heck, that's great logic.

The Nazi's approved, medically, of using CO gas at Treblinka, and Zyclone B at Auschwitz, too.
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I don't take seriously any argument that includes caterwauling about how the Nazis did such and such.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Medical ethics start with the Hippocratic Oath:



So much for the "ethics" of abortion.

Also, the goal of abortion is the slaughter of a human being.

Ergo, abortion isn't compatible with medical ethics.




No. It's not morally neutral.
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Blah. Nothing in the hippocratic oath precludes the ability of a doctor to perform an abortion as it is read today. Try again but next time try just a little harder.
 
jallman said:
Blah. Nothing in the hippocratic oath precludes the ability of a doctor to perform an abortion. Try again but next time try just a little harder.
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:rofl:rofl:rofl It depends on what "is" is...:spin::rofl
 
Felicity said:
:rofl:rofl:rofl It depends on what "is" is...:spin::rofl
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If you want to be obtuse about it, sure. But the fact is, abortion is a medical procedure, approved by medical professionals, to alleviate an unwanted medical condition, namely pregnancy. Take it up with the courts if you have a problem with it. Otherwise, your hysterics fall on deaf ears here.
 
jallman said:
If you want to be obtuse about it, sure. But the fact is, abortion is a medical procedure, approved by medical professionals, to alleviate an unwanted medical condition, namely pregnancy. Take it up with the courts if you have a problem with it. Otherwise, your hysterics fall on deaf ears here.
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Nice edit.:roll:

jallman said:
...as it is read today.
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Felicity said:
Nice edit.:roll:
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What's your problem with it?

Let me go ahead and spare us the lengthy discussion...

Felicity: Abortion kills babies
Joey: No it doesn't, it kills fetuses
Felicity: <insert some random definition that poorly attempts to equate fetuses with babies.
Joey: Not buying it.
Felicity: you're being emotional <insert random dismissal with a lot of foolish smilies to punctuate it>
Joey: <exasperated sigh> we're done here.
 
This thread puts two thoughts into my head.

1) I don't think President Obama's call for compromise and finding common ground is going to meet with much success. Too much emotional baggage on both sides. That is also why I assiduously avoid abortion debates. As a country we have been arguing it for 30 + years, and people are still split down the middle on the subject.

2) Any thread with nazi references is probably going in a bad direction.
 
jallman said:
What's your problem with it?

Let me go ahead and spare us the lengthy discussion...

Felicity: Abortion kills babies
Joey: No it doesn't, it kills fetuses
Felicity: <insert some random definition that poorly attempts to equate fetuses with babies.
Joey: Not buying it.
Felicity: you're being emotional <insert random dismissal with a lot of foolish smilies to punctuate it>
Joey: <exasperated sigh> we're done here.
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You do very well showing the emotionalism.:rofl
 
jallman said:
I don't take seriously any argument that includes caterwauling about how the Nazis did such and such.
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And....?

You have a point, I mean, something besides the fact that not all Nazi comparisons are false?
 
jallman said:
Blah. Nothing in the hippocratic oath precludes the ability of a doctor to perform an abortion as it is read today. Try again but next time try just a little harder.
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So what you're saying is that an oath doesn't mean anything, it's nothing but a formality for the young baby-killer to follow before embarking on his tour of mass murder and high income.

Then again, since an unborn child is a human being from conception, exactly how does the Hippocratic Oath change from antiquity to today in this regard, since human biology hasn't changed?
 
jallman said:
If you want to be obtuse about it, sure. But the fact is, abortion is a medical procedure, approved by medical professionals, to alleviate an unwanted medical condition, namely pregnancy. Take it up with the courts if you have a problem with it. Otherwise, your hysterics fall on deaf ears here.
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Ah. You're now relying on Argument From Authority, ie, the courts, to defend your admittedly indefensible position.
 
jallman said:
Better than relying on some Nazi drivel that you tried to pull.
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2 wrongs.

I did not read what it is about, but courts sometimes suck.

Yet, none of 2 wrongs is better, unless you go emotional, which would bring the 3rd wrong.
 
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jallman said:
Better than relying on some Nazi drivel that you tried to pull.
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I was demonstrating the failure of your analogy.

Also, specifically, one should read "Nazi drivel" as the quoting of some Nazi figure to establish a position, which I did not do, and not merely drawing accurate parallels to real historic events, which I did do.

Just because something is legal, or ethical according to politically motivated self-interested parties, doesn't make it either moral or ethical.

So, you failed on the analogy front.

You failed on the Argument from Authority.

You haven't defined the moral basis of killing humans, and you lack even the courage to admit the unborn are distinct human organisms.

So, where, exactly, do you get the idea that it's the moral or ethical path to murder these people?
 
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(looks at the 15 pages of random BS) Is it too late to give my opinion yet? Not like anyone would care?

Ah well, here we go:

I think this thread is a bit...too much? Obama is the...well...PRESIDENT. Of course he is going to be recieved well wherever he goes, even in Texas! Obama didn't win over anyone that wasn't already won over. Even look at George Bush, he didn't get cheers, but every speech he made, people still clapped when he finished, does that mean he was recieved well? or that he was even right?

Beside, who cares. Even if Obama won over Notre Dame(And that is a big IF), why should that change my opinion of him or his policies?
 
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Goldwaters said:
How about Democraticans? But I think the party prefers Democrat-singular, Democrats-plural, and Democratic Party.

Thats the one thing Republics don't understand. You get to name yourself. Notice how nobody complains about my renaming on the Republic party? they think it's okay.
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I think nobody cares, except for those who get all wound about about minor differences in the name of a political party.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
I was demonstrating the failure of your analogy.

Also, specifically, one should read "Nazi drivel" as the quoting of some Nazi figure to establish a position, which I did not do, and not merely drawing accurate parallels to real historic events, which I did do.

Just because something is legal, or ethical according to politically motivated self-interested parties, doesn't make it either moral or ethical.

So, you failed on the analogy front.

You failed on the Argument from Authority.

You haven't defined the moral basis of killing humans, and you lack even the courage to admit the unborn are distinct human organisms.

So, where, exactly, do you get the idea that it's the moral or ethical path to murder these people?
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First of all, it's not murder. Second, it's not people. Third fetuses don't equate to Jews and doctors don't equate to Nazis.

That will be all.

But just to prove I'm a sport and don't support Hitler:

Surf_Nazis.jpg
 
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