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Ventura: Powell's a 'war hero,' while Cheney 'ran and hid'

American said:
Can you prove that he only lambastes the left, and never the right?
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I listen to him nearly everyday. I know what he does; he's a propagandaist. He carried water for Bush...would throw out minor things every once in awhile, but Bush was counter to Rush's supposed political ideology. I grew up listening to Rush, he got me interested in politics in the first place. I have his books, I used them as references in my political science courses when I was an undergrad. He always talked a small government game, a responsible government game. Bush wasn't that. But he never really took Bush to town the way he takes on Democrats, nowhere close. His critique on the right, on the rare occasion it comes, is a kitten compared to his scathing rhetoric against the left. Not even the same ballgame there. He gives critique of the right every once in awhile, but it's nowhere near that for the left. And if there's something on the right that should be against his political beliefs, it doesn't get the kind of scrutinizing and demolishing that the same thing would get if it came from the left. Rush is now propaganda, I think Bush ruined him because it became clear to me that it wasn't conservatism Rush is rallying behind but the R. Republicans get passes, rarely will he take them to town and infrequently upon that would he do it with the ferocity by which he unleashes upon the left. Rush has become partisan hack, a propaganda machine meant for the non-thinking and nothing more. He's not conservative, he's Republican...a category many supposed conservatives actually fall into.
 
Ikari said:
I listen to him nearly everyday. I know what he does; he's a propagandaist. He carried water for Bush...would throw out minor things every once in awhile, but Bush was counter to Rush's supposed political ideology. I grew up listening to Rush, he got me interested in politics in the first place. I have his books, I used them as references in my political science courses when I was an undergrad. He always talked a small government game, a responsible government game. Bush wasn't that. But he never really took Bush to town the way he takes on Democrats, nowhere close. His critique on the right, on the rare occasion it comes, is a kitten compared to his scathing rhetoric against the left. Not even the same ballgame there. He gives critique of the right every once in awhile, but it's nowhere near that for the left. And if there's something on the right that should be against his political beliefs, it doesn't get the kind of scrutinizing and demolishing that the same thing would get if it came from the left. Rush is now propaganda, I think Bush ruined him because it became clear to me that it wasn't conservatism Rush is rallying behind but the R. Republicans get passes, rarely will he take them to town and infrequently upon that would he do it with the ferocity by which he unleashes upon the left. Rush has become partisan hack, a propaganda machine meant for the non-thinking and nothing more. He's not conservative, he's Republican...a category many supposed conservatives actually fall into.
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I like your post, very honest.

Do you still listen?
 
hazlnut said:
I like your post, very honest.

Do you still listen?
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Often yes, not past few weeks. PhD thesis, PRL paper, DAMOP talk, and DAMOP poster has kept me rather busy. I used to listen to Sean Hannity, but I just can't stand that guy anymore. Way too stupid that one.
 
UtahBill said:
been a long time, so most are guesses.....
Lacy's was a burger joint?
Tidwell Drive-In theater (I mowed the lawn for the owners, and got free carload passes)
Timberland? Roller Rink? aka as Rainbow?
Stanfields? burger place?
Lakewood? local park?
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Good enough! Pleased to meet you homey! :2wave:

Lacy's Dairiette
Tidwell Drive-In
Timberland Rainbow Roller Rink
Stanfields Swimming Pool (also a burger joint in front.)
Lakewood was a local park, Right near my house (over near my elementry school, East Houston Elementry) But I was thinking about the Lakewood Shopping Center.

I lived at 8121 Woodlyn back then.

Damn. Never thought I'd meet a Smiley person here. Small world. Remember Mrs. (Bee-Hive Hair) Johnson? Mr. (Band Director) Clark? Mr. Urban?
 
Captain America said:
Good enough! Pleased to meet you homey! :2wave:

Lacy's Dairiette
Tidwell Drive-In
Timberland Rainbow Roller Rink
Stanfields Swimming Pool (also a burger joint in front.)
Lakewood was a local park, Right near my house (over near my elementry school, East Houston Elementry) But I was thinking about the Lakewood Shopping Center.

I lived at 8121 Woodlyn back then.

Damn. Never thought I'd meet a Smiley person here. Small world. Remember Mrs. (Bee-Hive Hair) Johnson? Mr. (Band Director) Clark? Mr. Urban?
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Oh yeah, the pool, didn't go there much, it took money I didn't have. There were small lakes, like LakeCrest park, but out in the woods east of my house, and we swam and fished there. They were just curved lakes left behind when they straightened out the bayous for flood drainage.
I was at 9606 Balsam Ln....
I remember only 2 teachers, Redmond (French) and Hooker (english, only there 2 years). Redmond was a nice person, effete, might have been gay but probably asexual. He had plans to become a minister. Hooker was the best teacher I ever had, and I had him for both years. He taught honors or advanced english, and I got C's, but learned more from him than any teacher before or since. He expected a lot from us, and got it, making some other teachers jealous. He had plans to become a shrink....wonder if he ever did?
Shortly after I left in late 64, my parents sold the house and moved away. I was there only 4 years, didn't make any long term friends. Problems with parents caused me, like the 3 siblings before me, to leave and never come back....my younger brother walter would have been your age....
 
UtahBill said:
Moore, red hair, freckles, goofy, and dumb.....age 59 right now....
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He's more my big brother's age. I'm only 52. :mrgreen:

Did you ever do any fishin' at Lake Forest? (That lil' horseshoe like pond on East Houston Rd.)

Here in WI they all call me "Texas Ed." Funny that your handle is "UtahBill" and you lived in my neck o' the woods once upon a time.

Sorry to go so off topic guys. My bad.

Carry on.
 
Ikari said:
I listen to him nearly everyday. I know what he does; he's a propagandaist. He carried water for Bush...would throw out minor things every once in awhile, but Bush was counter to Rush's supposed political ideology. I grew up listening to Rush, he got me interested in politics in the first place. I have his books, I used them as references in my political science courses when I was an undergrad. He always talked a small government game, a responsible government game. Bush wasn't that. But he never really took Bush to town the way he takes on Democrats, nowhere close. His critique on the right, on the rare occasion it comes, is a kitten compared to his scathing rhetoric against the left. Not even the same ballgame there. He gives critique of the right every once in awhile, but it's nowhere near that for the left. And if there's something on the right that should be against his political beliefs, it doesn't get the kind of scrutinizing and demolishing that the same thing would get if it came from the left. Rush is now propaganda, I think Bush ruined him because it became clear to me that it wasn't conservatism Rush is rallying behind but the R. Republicans get passes, rarely will he take them to town and infrequently upon that would he do it with the ferocity by which he unleashes upon the left. Rush has become partisan hack, a propaganda machine meant for the non-thinking and nothing more. He's not conservative, he's Republican...a category many supposed conservatives actually fall into.
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He didn't take Bush to town like the Dems because Bush cut taxes and faces our enemies, where the Dems wouldn't. He should take the Dems more to task for that. You're the one with the problem, you're the political hack now on a personal crusade against Limbaugh. Just look at you. :shock:
 
American said:
He didn't take Bush to town like the Dems because Bush cut taxes and faces our enemies, where the Dems wouldn't. He should take the Dems more to task for that. You're the one with the problem, you're the political hack now on a personal crusade against Limbaugh. Just look at you. :shock:
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Tell me American, do you know anything about Colin Powell's military position during the Clinton years? I would be very careful proclaiming you know anything about what Clinton did or didn't do regarding our enemies especially in a thread about Colin Powell.
 
American said:
He didn't take Bush to town like the Dems because Bush cut taxes and faces our enemies, where the Dems wouldn't. He should take the Dems more to task for that. You're the one with the problem, you're the political hack now on a personal crusade against Limbaugh. Just look at you. :shock:
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I keep hearing you yapping about how many Americans decided to ignore personal responsibility by buying houses they couldn't afford. Bush started a war he didn't intend to pay for. But somehow Limbaugh should be commended for not taking him to task on JUST that? Limbaugh should be commended for not taking Bush to task for starting a war and cutting taxes when we all know taxes PAY for war? Well. **** Limbaugh if that's what he should commended for. He's even worse then Coulter.
 
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Lerxst said:
Powells downfall came when he began criticizing the Bush administration over Iraq. And it went downhill from there. While I don't think any sane member of the GOP would attacks Powell's military service, like WI said...they go for the throat on his politics.

But I'll just tell you this. I have studied Colin Powell's "military politics" in some detail. I will just say this, his endorsement of the decision to invade Iraq was shocking given his military philosophy and the operational environment he lorded over as the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. It got even more bizarre when he gave the statements he did regarding the evidence. Some people have been outrageously dishonest in portraying Powell as a race driven turncoat. But if you really study him what you will find is that his decision to criticize Bush after leaving service is really not all that surprising.

Colin Powell was a stalwart and loyal soldier who loved his nation dearly and respected the Chain of Command. While I reserve my opinion on him being a "hero" (I have a different standard for that than some do, I'm not saying others are wrong in classifying him that way, and I'm not taking away from his service, but I have a very high standard for applying the term "hero"), he was a good troop, but loyal to a fault. My only criticism of Powell is this. In his role as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, he the capacity and the obligation to stand in the breach for the military when Cheney and Rumsfeld were butchering the Pentagons plans for the invasion of Iraq. By failing to dissent, which he should have done, he compromised his legacy in that he will always be criticized for that complicitness. Taking the politics out of the justification or lack thereof, the plan for the invasion and the post war occupation was so bad that it was nearly impossible to find an active duty general who would endorse it. Powell stood up, out of loyalty, out of whatever, and took that round for the administration.

Whether he did it out of political loyalty or military loyalty is irrelevant. Powell was soldiering the best he knew how I suppose. It was an unenviable task but he performed it with true class. I respect him for his years of service and I am glad he is voicing his criticisms because I know they are not born out of racial loyalty at all. They are just out of step with him personally as far as timing goes. I think he is a very sincere man.

And Dick Cheney is a fool to try and discredit him in any way. The GOP needs to shut Cheney up however they can.
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I want to correct something here. I did not word one of my statements properly when I posted this. That statement could lead to confusion. I've highlighted it, and here is how it should have read.

In his role as Secretary of State, a former soldier, and former Chairman of the JCS, he had the capacity and the obligation to stand in the breach for the military when Cheney and Rumsfeld were butchering the Pentagons plans for the invasion of Iraq.
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Redress said:
Edited to add: does anyone else find it odd how the republicans are trying to say that a real American hero like Powell is not one of them?
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Powell endorsed Obama.
Fine, but Obama is among the furthest Left members you can find in the D Party.
His voting record in the Senate was the furthest left.
He sought laws for infanticide.
He hung with Wright and Ayers... a verbal terrorist and a real terrorist.

This he supports?!!!!
I wonder if Powell has buyers remorse seeing ObaMarx in action?

ObaMarx...he's no Zell Miller or Sam Nunn.
I might have been able to understand supporting either of these D's... but ObaMarx?
Come on... if you're going to endorse a Marxist... you aren't a Republican and being as high profile as Powell is, should be called out.

Sorry.
Powell left the reservation.
He should do a Specter and be honest with HIMSELF.
Join The ObaMarx Party.
That's fine... be honest... it's one reason I can tolerate, like and even respect Kucinich... he's whacked like most Libs today... BUT HE IS HONEST.

Powell entered the scene under Reagan, someone who is very much like Limbaugh.
He liked Reagan, and now he repudiates Limbaugh?
There is no logical consistency here.

Cheney didn't dodge the draft, and lie (letter to Col. Holmes) as Clinton had.
He remained in the US, didn't run abroad, protest against his country or lie about his standing... and he had no silver spoon. Had he been called he would have had to go.
LP: Cheney's Five Draft Deferments During the Vietnam Era Emerge as a Campaign Issue

Powell is a war hero. I more than applaud and thank him for his service to our country, but politically his behavior is fundamentally inconsistent, bordering on bizarre.

Reagan to ObaMarx? That's 180 degrees.

.
 
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Here is the thing though. I do not always vote democrat(mostly, but not always), I do not always agree with democrats...yet I am a democrat, and distinctly so. I am some one who thinks that two of the three best presidents in my adult life where republicans, yet I am a democrat. I thank god that we as democrats do not have the kind of litmus test that republican seem to be adopting.

Why did Powell endorse Obama? Was it all because he liked Obama, or did McCain have something to do with it? Could it be that he felt that Obama was just better than McCain? Note that McCain is criticized alot by republicans as well, being called not being a true republican, so maybe it is kinda natural that Powell did not want to support McCain.

Republicans don't have any kind of obligation to accept Powell, and I am not about to tell republicans what to do. I just find it odd that republican distance themselves with the person in their party that people like the most.
 
Redress said:
Here is the thing though. I do not always vote democrat(mostly, but not always), I do not always agree with democrats...yet I am a democrat, and distinctly so. I am some one who thinks that two of the three best presidents in my adult life where republicans, yet I am a democrat. I thank god that we as democrats do not have the kind of litmus test that republican seem to be adopting.

Why did Powell endorse Obama? Was it all because he liked Obama, or did McCain have something to do with it? Could it be that he felt that Obama was just better than McCain? Note that McCain is criticized alot by republicans as well, being called not being a true republican, so maybe it is kinda natural that Powell did not want to support McCain.

Republicans don't have any kind of obligation to accept Powell, and I am not about to tell republicans what to do. I just find it odd that republican distance themselves with the person in their party that people like the most.
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Why did Powell endorse Obama indeed?

Wright?
Ayers?
Michelle's statements.
Rezko.
His absolute lack of experience.
His tax and spend mentality.
"Bitter clingers".
Infanticide.
His scant, selective and Far Left voting record(s); IL and US Senate.

Not republican in the least.

Had it been anyone else... Wright or Ayers would have been enough to disqualify the candidate... in a NY Minute, as with his lack of experience. Ferraro nailed it... before we learned about either of the kooks he sought out.

Your last comment is very revealing.
I just find it odd that republican distance themselves with the person in their party that people like the most.
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I could care less how popular Powell is.
He endorsed a man who is a radical leftist.
Sam Nunn or Zig Zag Zell I could somewhat understand.
Obama?

There is NO rationale for a Republican to endorse someone that obviously radical.

You cannot be a Republican and endorse Obama... unless you were suckered into believing he was someone else.
Then a Mia culpa is in order.
We have seen the opposite.

It's all a major disconnect... except for one thing.

.
 
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hazlnut said:
Cheney was the calling the shots during that whole period. Bush was out of the loop. It's so disturbing.
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100% Hearsay.

Some would say pure, unadulterated Bulls**t.

.
 
zimmer said:
100% Hearsay.

Some would say pure, unadulterated Bulls**t.

.
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Cheney himself just prevaricated when asked what Bush knew. Your "hearsay" is quickly becoming common knowledge - Bush was enjoying the plane and the food while Cheney co-opted his power:

SCHIEFFER: How much did President Bush know specifically about the methods that were being used? We know that you-- and you have said-- that you approved this...

CHENEY: Right.

SCHIEFFER: ... somewhere down the line. Did President Bush know everything you knew?

CHENEY: I certainly, yes, have every reason to believe he knew -- he knew a great deal about the program. He basically authorized it. I mean, this was a presidential-level decision. And the decision went to the president. He signed off on it.
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WillRockwell said:
Cheney himself just prevaricated when asked what Bush knew. Your "hearsay" is quickly becoming common knowledge - Bush was enjoying the plane and the food while Cheney co-opted his power:
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Still "hot" from the snub of Libby's pardon, Cheney is of the mindset, that if he's going down, he's dragging Dubya with him.
 
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