It's Obama's War Now

American said:

No doubt if the war in Afghanistan fails, Obama will say he inherited it.

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Even if that failure is officially declared in 2016.

Goobieman said:

Thats what I thught you were getting at -- not any real point, just a meaningless personal attack on GWB.

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It's not meaningless. I am a veteran. I dislike sharing the term with some one who used the reserves to get out of serving active duty.

I have a great deal of respect for President Bush the elder, despite the fact that I differed with him almost completely on issues, because of his choice to serve the country. President Bush the younger did not chose to serve the country, he chose to serve himself.

Redress said:

It's not meaningless.

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Personal attacks are always meaningless, and are usually offered when there is nothing of substance to put in its place.

I am a veteran. I dislike sharing the term with some one who used the reserves to get out of serving active duty.

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You can dislike it all you want -- fact of the matter is, GWB is a veteran.

Goobieman said:

Personal attacks are always meaningless, and are usually offered when there is nothing of substance to put in its place.

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Interesting, so what exactly did my comments about veterans that you disliked so much have to do with the actual point I was making, that was of substance? Oh, did you forget about that?

Redress said:

Interesting, so what exactly did my comments about veterans that you disliked so much have to do with the actual point I was making, that was of substance?

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I was simply correcting your factual error.
Any point you make based on a factual error is necessarily unsound.

Goobieman said:

I was simply correcting your factual error.
Any point you make based on a factual error is necessarily unsound.

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So you think that knowing how to wage war is a requirement to be president?

Redress said:

So you think that knowing how to wage war is a requirement to be president?

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I think that you made a factual error when you declared that GHWB was the last President to be a veteran, and that any point you made based on that erroneous declaration is necessarily unsound.

Afghanistan is still Bush's war, but a good war to wage. Bush was right to fight this one. I am afraid that the first war to be attributed to Obama may be Pakistan, and sooner than you think.

Redress said:

So you think that knowing how to wage war is a requirement to be president?

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Not per the Constitution, but if you're a Prez who wants to lob rounds downrange it might make sense to have some idea of what's involved.

What branch of the military did Dear Leader serve in again?

Inferno said:

It was Obama's conflict. It has never been a war. It is actually an invasion of a sovereign nation if we want it all accurate. Obama said he was against the conflict from the beginning so I hold him responsible for any deaths and money spent on this fiasco in the sand.

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A few points, if I may.

1. I don't think Obama was against this conflict from the beginning. I certainly do not recall him ever saying such a thing, and if he did I certainly missed it. In fact, his remarks from 2007 indicate that he supported - not opposed - the conflict in Afghanistan. "I did not oppose all wars, I said. I was a strong supporter of the war in Afghanistan. But I said I could not support 'a dumb war, a rash war' in Iraq. I worried about a 'U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences' in the heart of the Muslim world. I pleaded that we 'finish the fight with bin Ladin and al Qaeda'." (Source: BarackObama.com | Remarks of Senator Obama: The War We Need to Win).

2. True, we invaded the sovereign nation of Afghanistan - a nation controlled by the Taliban, a regime which not only harbored the terrorist Osama Bin Laden, but supported his brutal attack against the United States of America as well. Liberals and conservatives have our ideological differences, but the vast majority of us stood together after the attack because we are first and foremost Americans. Danarhea's words were dead on - "Afghanistan is still Bush's war, but a good war to wage. Bush was right to fight this one." Few Americans - liberal OR conservative - would disagree.

3. I respect your right to believe that Afghanistan is a fiasco, though I personally disagree. The arguments can be made that Obama is mishandling the conflict, or that Bush mishandled it, or whatever. But I stand behind Obama on this conflict just like I stood behind Bush, because both Presidents have acted in the best interest of our country by this conflict. Yes, war is hell and it's a great tragedy whenever mankind is forced into it, but like philosopher John Stuart Mill said, "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

celticlord said:

Dear Leader must be presumed to know of these harsh interrogations, because Secretary Gates explicitly stated he conferred with Dear Leader over the firing of McKiernan and the elevation of McChrystal:


Of course, since McChrystal has been blessed by Dear Leader, the actions of his elite team interrogating at Camp Nama could never be considered "torture." Dear Leader's blessing is sufficient to remove that taint from one and all.

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Well he did just issue that order that says no torture unless you really have to. What a guy!

danarhea said:

Afghanistan is still Bush's war, but a good war to wage. Bush was right to fight this one. I am afraid that the first war to be attributed to Obama may be Pakistan, and sooner than you think.

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Bush might have started it, but it became Obama's war on January 20th.

celticlord said:

Not per the Constitution, but if you're a Prez who wants to lob rounds downrange it might make sense to have some idea of what's involved.

What branch of the military did Dear Leader serve in again?

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I served in the Navy, and am totally unqualified to run a war. Service in the military is neither required to be president, nor does it mean have any idea what is involved in a war. That is what advisers are for.