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Chavez seizes oil service firms

Khayembii Communique said:
I have. Kropotkin's Mutual Aid is really good, and The Conquest of Bread is decent, but I don't think that any form of "decentralized" economy is realistic in any way. The planning and coordination of an entire global economy basically necessitates some kind of centralization - even capitalism centralizes economic coordination in the form of market forces (although this is more implicit centralization than explicit, as a planned economy would be). I've read some of Bookchin's stuff as well a long time ago, and found a lot of it to simply be "crap". I don't really know how else to describe it besides that; I've read other anarchist and "libertarian socialist" authors out there, but Bookchin is one of the worst.
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Ahh now we have moved into what is thought to be realistic. That is a rather different argument, what is correct though is that some anarchists at least do have ideas that don't require massive centralised planning and coordination. I don't think the likes of Kropotkin had much time for ideas about global economies, he talked of the need for regional self-sufficiency and such(which is something I believe in even if I'm not a socialist but distributist.).

I have only read a small selection of Bookchin myself, his attack on individualism in the liberal meaning was quite interesting.
I think this has more to do with how "centralization" is defined than anything.

For example, let us say that a bunch of decentralized communities send delegates to a congress which decides upon the administration of the economy. Is that centralized or decentralized to you?
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I think it depends upon the level of autonomy and scope of the communities and the small-scale associations within them.
 
Catman said:
It is time for a revolution down yonder. Chavez is really a dictator in every sense of the word.
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I've been saying that since his sorry monkey ass got elected.

Chavez is a turd that needs to be pinched off and flushed.
 
Wessexman said:
Yes but seeing as you seem to want to invade half the world, it is hard for us anyone to spend too much time on each individual invasion suggestion you come with.:cool:
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I'm sorry that you having got the stomach to do what needs to be done.

Chavez is nothing but a third world dicator. He needs to be diposed. He needs to be repalced with a governing official that is subject to a term limit.

He needs to be replaced by a leader who will not steal assets from private citizens.

If you cannot see the problem he poses, you sir, are the one with the issue.

Also ...

Khayembii Communique

Brown-nosing is undignified. You should be ashamed of yourself.
 
Vader said:
I'm sorry that you having got the stomach to do what needs to be done.
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Sure I do. I know the aggressive interventionists who will destroy domestic liberty and external security need to be fought, I have the stomach for that.
Chavez is nothing but a third world dicator.
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Well actually he isn't, he is unsavoury b ut hardly a dictator yet.

He needs to be diposed. He needs to be repalced with a governing official that is subject to a term limit.
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This doesn't follow. Even if he was a tinpot dictator, so what? It is not worth the negatives of invading a nation's sovereignty and getting involved as some kind of policeman to the world.

He needs to be replaced by a leader who will not steal assets from private citizens.
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That is up to the people of his country.

If you cannot see the problem he poses, you sir, are the one with the issue.
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Sure I have an issue, I don't believe in aggressive interventionism that endangers domestic liberty and external security.

Your breathtaking contempt for national sovereignty is awesome, have you ever thought of working for the European union?
 
Chaves was "Elected"??!! Define "elected". "The people love him"? Are we confusing fearing for one's life with love? Raul Castro was also "elected". Oh, and let's not forget our boy president was just down there doing soul handshakes with this same........bro!
 
Chaves was "Elected"??!! Define "elected". "The people love him"? Are we confusing fearing for one's life with love? Raul Castro was also "elected". Oh, and let's not forget our boy president was just down there doing soul handshakes with this same........bro!
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Chavez was elected, reelected and passed a referendum vote as well. I believe at least two of these were internationally monitored, not that it really matters to you.
 
Wessexman said:
Sure I do. I know the aggressive interventionists who will destroy domestic liberty and external security need to be fought, I have the stomach for that.
Well actually he isn't, he is unsavoury b ut hardly a dictator yet.
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WRONG. Chavez is a DICTATOR ... there is no domestic liberty in his country.


Wessexman said:
This doesn't follow. Even if he was a tinpot dictator, so what? It is not worth the negatives of invading a nation's sovereignty and getting
involved as some kind of policeman to the world.
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We do the job people like yourself do not have the balls to do. We are trying to make the world a better place. If you don't have the balls to help, get out of the way and keep quiet.


Wessexman said:
Sure I have an issue, I don't believe in aggressive interventionism that
endangers domestic liberty and external security.
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You mean you don't have the balls to stop a dictator and you don't think anybody else should either.

Wessexman said:
Your breathtaking contempt for national sovereignty is awesome, have you ever thought of working for the European union?
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There is NO LIBERTY IN CHAVEZ LAND. What part of that do you NOT understand?

Chavez is a dictator who stole private assets from a private citizen and gave them to the state. Chavez is a dictator who needs to be stopped. Help or get out of the way and keep quiet.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
Chavez was elected, reelected and passed a referendum vote as well. I believe at least two of these were internationally monitored, not that it really matters to you.
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Enough of your rhetoric.

Chavez is a dicator ... elected or not.

Stop making excuses for his sorry dictator ass.
 
Vader said:
WRONG. Chavez is a DICTATOR ... there is no domestic liberty in his country.
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Not an argument.



We do the job people like yourself do not have the balls to do. We are trying to make the world a better place. If you don't have the balls to help, get out of the way and keep quiet.
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I don't take orders from you, particularly as you simply spout extreme, dangerous rhetoric without any arguments to back it up.



You mean you don't have the balls to stop a dictator and you don't think anybody else should either.
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Balls? When did I say I wanted to stop him?

There is NO LIBERTY IN CHAVEZ LAND. What part of that do you NOT understand?
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What part of even if that was true it is not our business and we'd do more damage interfering do you not understand?

Chavez is a dictator who stole private assets from a private citizen and gave them to the state. Chavez is a dictator who needs to be stopped. Help or get out of the way and keep quiet.
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No.
 
Know how many dictators have been elected to office multiple times and had those elections verified by international observers?

Neither do I... but in my time I have seen more then a few dozen(esp in Africa)

Being elected is not an excuse to cover your eyes and deny the reality shouting at you in green fatigues and a red beret.
 
Wessexman said:
Not an argument.

Yes, It is. Only confused liberals say otherwise.


Wessexman said:
I don't take orders from you, particularly as you simply spout extreme, dangerous rhetoric without any arguments to back it up.
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I backed up my argument --- you simply disagree and that is your failing. You are a liberal who knows less than **** about what must be done to secure peace and freedom.

Here is a hint: FREEDOM IS NOT FREE!!!


Wessexman said:
Balls? When did I say I wanted to stop him?
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You cannot see the danger he poses ... so logically you would not have the sense to do what must be done. Few liberals do.

Wessexman said:
What part of even if that was true it is not our business and we'd do more damage interfering do you not understand?
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Terrorists with access to nuclear weapons IS EVERYBODY'S BUSINESS. If you had any clue what was going on, you wouldn't be pulling the liberal cowardice maneuver.

The Taliban need to be stopped ... even if you're narrow view of the world prevents you from seeing why.

Kindly get out of the way and let the educated people do what must be done.

You are free to go to your tree hug-a-thon.

One thing is certain ... you are NOT a patriot.
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Khayembii Communique said:
You're a terrorist, stop excusing terrorism.
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Liberal ad hom.

Shame on you.

P.S. Stopping terrorists like the Taliban from getting access to nukes IS NOT TERRORISM.

If you are unable to see that, you have a problem that requires therapy.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
Chavez was elected, reelected and passed a referendum vote as well. I believe at least two of these were internationally monitored, not that it really matters to you.
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If I have a gun to the back of my head in the voting booth how is that "voting"?
 
Liberal ad hom.

Shame on you.

P.S. Stopping terrorists like the Taliban from getting access to nukes IS NOT TERRORISM.

If you are unable to see that, you have a problem that requires therapy.
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Shut up terrorist! I know you're a terrorist because I said so. You should be ashamed of yourself.
 
It's fun to act like you sometimes. Absolutely nothing gets accomplished, but who doesn't enjoy throwing around completely unsubstantiated claims and calling people names?:lol:
 
I'm confused as to why the Taliban are even identified as "terrorists." I supported their removal merely on account of their domestic repression, but they certainly never posed much of an international threat, especially considering Mullah Omar's opposition to the 9/11 attacks.

Regardless, let's not get off-topic.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
If I make up my argument how is that debating?:roll:
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It not made up.
Chavez supporters (usually in red t-shirts) stand outside voting areas and intimidate people. They break up anything Chavez declares as "illegal".

Some point in time I bet Chavez will use the voting record and those red shirted goons to go after those who had the bravery to not vote for whatever he wanted. IMO Chavez will kill before he gives up power.
 
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Triad said:
It not made up.
Chavez supporters (usually in red t-shirts) stand outside voting areas and intimidate people. They break up anything Chavez declares as "illegal".

Some point in time I bet Chavez will use the voting record and those red shirted goons to go after those who had the bravery to not vote for whatever he wanted. IMO Chavez will kill before he gives up power.
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Clearly you are privy to information that both the international election observers in venuzuela and ourselves seam to have missed. Please enlighten us as to were your getting this from?
 
Read the thread and you will find some.

If you prefer Hugo Chavez himself-

Mr Chavez has called on his red-shirted militants, whom he calls "socialist battalions", to keep a "vigilant presence" around polling stations to protect them from opposition violence. "Imperialism and its lackeys are desperate," he declared before a big closing rally. "They will resort to anything."
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Stand up to Hugo Chavez threats, voters told - Telegraph

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(Hugo Chavez during a rally in Caracas. He says he wants to rule until 2050)

Its notable to note that General Raul Baduel once Chavez's Secretary of Defense before he resigned. Calls Chavez a dictator who is using the outlets of democracy to destroy democracy.


Clearly you are privy to information that both the international election observers in venuzuela and ourselves seam to have missed.
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Change 'missed' to ignored.
 
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