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World's Happiest Places

Kandahar

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World's Happiest Places

I thought this was interesting. According to Forbes Magazine, the ten happiest nations in the world are:

1. Denmark
2. Finland
3. Netherlands
4. Sweden
5. Ireland
6. Canada
7. Switzerland
8. New Zealand
9. Norway
10. Belgium

I've seen other surveys that consistently rate some of these nations at the top of the list. Many surveys also rate several Central American countries very highly in terms of happiness (they were excluded from the Forbes survey, which only polled OECD countries). The least happy places in the world seem to consistently be Eastern European nations, the UK, and France.

What do you think makes a nation happy (or unhappy)?
 
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I say this guy was pretty close:

It is family, social and community networks that bring joy to one's life, according to Delamothe.

I'm suspicious about these sorts of tests though. It seems to suggest it is based on both the economy like GDP as well as other factors. I'd hazard a guess that in fact the material standard of living is often quite marginal beyond a certain rather low amount. I'd say after that it may improve the happiness but not a great deal and could in some ways hinder it.
 
World's Happiest Places

I thought this was interesting. According to Forbes Magazine, the ten happiest nations in the world are:

1. Denmark
2. Finland
3. Netherlands
4. Sweden
5. Ireland
6. Canada
7. Switzerland
8. New Zealand
9. Norway
10. Belgium

I've seen other surveys that consistently rate some of these nations at the top of the list. Many surveys also rate several Central American countries very highly in terms of happiness (they were excluded from the Forbes survey, which only polled OECD countries). The least happy places in the world seem to consistently be Eastern European nations, the UK, and France.

What do you think makes a nation happy (or unhappy)?
How happy would they be if the US didn't exist?
 
How happy would they be if the US didn't exist?

Let's reverse that.

How happy would America be if Europe didn't exist?

Answer is it wouldn't matter because America wouldn't exist. Take your b.s. elsewhere, please.
 
Awwww, did I upset poor baby. Don't cry now little baby, it's okay.
 
How happy would they be if the US didn't exist?

.......this is like asking...how windy would Earth be if Jupiter didn't exist? It'll probably turn the heads of a few people. But for all the wrong reasons.
 
Cry me a river. I dislike judgemental countries who never bother to get their hands dirty, while sitting as arrogant judges.
 
Cry me a river. I dislike judgemental countries who never bother to get their hands dirty, while sitting as arrogant judges.

Stop trying to hijack the thread. If you don't want to address the subject at hand, kindly go away.

What do you think makes a nation happy (or unhappy)?
 
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What do you think makes a nation happy (or unhappy)?

This is a question that is of great interest to me.

Americans view happiness completely different than their European counter-parts. Americans believe happiness to be an obtainable object (pursuit of happiness). Americans strive and go at great lengths to obtain happiness.

Other people see happiness as a by-product of hard work, or just life in general. Frankl (Psycho-analysist) agrees that Europeans (his elk of Nazi holocaust survivors) find happiness through methods that include self-sacrifice and pain.

i think happiness, as the result on a survey question, comes from whether or not the subject considers himself/herself as "satisfactory" to the ideals of society.
 
Well, a definite prerequisite seems to be a large social safety net, as most of the countries there come from what some would call the failed European welfare model. From the link,

Low unemployment also contributes to happiness. "One thing we know for sure," says the OECD's Chapple, "not having a job makes one substantially less satisfied." Denmark's unemployment rate is just 2 percent, according the C.I.A.'s World Factbook. Norway's is just 2.6 percent. The Netherlands: just 4.5 percent. Many economists concur that a 4 percent unemployment rate reflects a stable economy. The U.S. unemployment rate is currently 9 percent.

I think this would play a huge role, and I'd say stability and not knowing you're going to get laid off and lose the house is much bigger than the size of your car or other materialist concerns, as we seem to associate with happiness here. Also, it seems that in many European countries there is a greater seperation between work and home then there is in the US. I think we in the US have a major problem when it comes to how far we'll push people in order to squeeze out every ounce of productivity. Longer hours with less pay in order to keep your job, house, car, etc, would be unheard of in many of the countries in the top 10.

Of course, I would never give up my freedom to have low taxes so I can buy an SUV, even if my blood pressure will be through the roof from all the traffic jams I'll have to sit through everyday.

Interesting about UK/France being near the bottom though. Definitely something else at play. I'd say constant dismal weather would play a role if it was just the UK, but I'm pretty sure France gets a lot of sunshine.
 
What I am about to say about happiness is basically what I base all of my economic political views off of. I would really like to debate this with anyone.

I believe that overall:
Socialist policies make people happy. However, being poor also makes people unhappy. Socialism also slows economic growth.

Unhappy poor countries will stay unhappy and poor if they have socialist policies because of their resulting low economic growth. They will be slightly happier in the short run with socialist policies though. All of this means they should be "capitalist" to be happy in the long run.

If a country has wealth then it doesn't need more economic growth for its citizens to be happy. Therefore, those rich countries will be happier with socialist policies. So if a rich country only cares about its citizens, then it should be "socialist"
However, since rich countries invest in poor countries, capitalist policies in rich nations end up giving more wealth to poor countries. Therefore, even if people in rich countries will be happier with socialist policies, those countries should be capitalist to help poor nations grow their small economies.

So for the world, all nations should pursue capitalism for most people to be happy in the long run. This only needs to go on untill all poor nations are richer though.
 
Well, a definite prerequisite seems to be a large social safety net, as most of the countries there come from what some would call the failed European welfare model. From the link,



I think this would play a huge role, and I'd say stability and not knowing you're going to get laid off and lose the house is much bigger than the size of your car or other materialist concerns, as we seem to associate with happiness here. Also, it seems that in many European countries there is a greater seperation between work and home then there is in the US. I think we in the US have a major problem when it comes to how far we'll push people in order to squeeze out every ounce of productivity. Longer hours with less pay in order to keep your job, house, car, etc, would be unheard of in many of the countries in the top 10.

Of course, I would never give up my freedom to have low taxes so I can buy an SUV, even if my blood pressure will be through the roof from all the traffic jams I'll have to sit through everyday.

Interesting about UK/France being near the bottom though. Definitely something else at play. I'd say constant dismal weather would play a role if it was just the UK, but I'm pretty sure France gets a lot of sunshine.

I agree, but we should all work hard to generate capital that will trickle down to poorer nations.

I just think it is kind of greedy for Europe to sacrifice so much economic growth to make its people happy when people all over the world need more capital. What America does is much more selfless for the world in that way.
 
Well, a definite prerequisite seems to be a large social safety net, as most of the countries there come from what some would call the failed European welfare model.

I dunno...Canada doesn't have much of a safety net compared to many others, yet it makes the list. And as I mentioned, I've seen other surveys that rate much poorer Central American countries near the top of the list. I read somewhere (I'll try to find the link) that TWICE as many Guatemalans as French considered themselves happy...despite much worse economic conditions.

Joby said:
I think this would play a huge role, and I'd say stability and not knowing you're going to get laid off and lose the house is much bigger than the size of your car or other materialist concerns, as we seem to associate with happiness here.

I agree, that seems to be part of it. Although I think it's more that unemployment causes unhappiness, rather than employment causes happiness.

Joby said:
Also, it seems that in many European countries there is a greater seperation between work and home then there is in the US. I think we in the US have a major problem when it comes to how far we'll push people in order to squeeze out every ounce of productivity. Longer hours with less pay in order to keep your job, house, car, etc, would be unheard of in many of the countries in the top 10.

Definitely. I think this is one of the biggest cultural differences. I work with a lot of foreigners, and many of them have a very difficult time adjusting to the nose-to-the-grindstone work culture in this country. Most countries are MUCH more laid-back regarding taking time off work.

It seems like citizens of pretty much every well-developed nation work shorter hours and take longer vacations than Americans do. Even the Japanese, who stereotypically spend long hours at the office, don't work as much as Americans.

Joby said:
Interesting about UK/France being near the bottom though. Definitely something else at play. I'd say constant dismal weather would play a role if it was just the UK, but I'm pretty sure France gets a lot of sunshine.

Perhaps in many cases of unhappy countries, it's because they see their position in the world relative to their neighbors. I think many of the countries that are especially unhappy (Eastern European places like the Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia) compare themselves to Western European countries and feel like they aren't doing as well. Whereas Central American countries compare themselves to other Central American countries, and are happy because they see that they are doing as well as their neighbors.

Granted, that doesn't really explain why the UK and France are unhappy...but I think it explains many of the others.
 
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I agree, but we should all work hard to generate capital that will trickle down to poorer nations.

I just think it is kind of greedy for Europe to sacrifice so much economic growth to make its people happy when people all over the world need more capital. What America does is much more selfless for the world in that way.

Perhaps, but there will always be some higher cause. Everyone in Europe and the Americas could work 18 hours a day...but most people don't want that and they'd be downright miserable. I'm certainly not suggesting that poorer nations don't deserve our help...but for most people, their first priority is their own life and their own happiness.
 
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Well, a definite prerequisite seems to be a large social safety net, as most of the countries there come from what some would call the failed European welfare model. From the link,

I think this would play a huge role, and I'd say stability and not knowing you're going to get laid off and lose the house is much bigger than the size of your car or other materialist concerns, as we seem to associate with happiness here. Also, it seems that in many European countries there is a greater seperation between work and home then there is in the US. I think we in the US have a major problem when it comes to how far we'll push people in order to squeeze out every ounce of productivity. Longer hours with less pay in order to keep your job, house, car, etc, would be unheard of in many of the countries in the top 10.

Yes and no. Denmark has consistently been in the top 5 for many years in these surveys and top 10 since the start and it is only recently that our unemployment has gone down to those levels (and it is going up now again btw). Unemployment is a factor of course, but the impact of a high rate can be minimized by having a safety net that provides for people if and when you do get to be unemployed (up to a point of course) and also provides for people to reinvent themselves by further education and so on and helping to start businesses up. People simply dont worry that much. All this adds to the "happiness" factor.

On top of that family and social aspects are important also, and here the amount of time worked comes into the picture. If you look at many of the countries in the top 10, their productivity is high, GDP is high, income equality is more "fair" and so on, and yet they have the social safety nets, free schools and so on that provide for a safe mindset that in turn provides more happiness and all have relatively lower working weeks. That of course does not mean that we dont work more than the 35 hours a week.. we do, but no one can force us to work more than 35 hours a week if we dont want to.. that is the difference..

On the other hand you have the US where people work themselves to death (relatively speaking) and yet they are not that happy. And in a way I understand it. American productivity with this worker mentality is no higher (even lower) than places like Denmark, Germany, Japan, and yet they work far less and are as rich if not richer (GDP/captia) as the US. So all this work gives no benefit really.

Seems to me for an American, work and wealth is a road to "happiness" where as Europeans see work more as a means to have a social and family life.

Personally I think income equality is a major factor, as those countries in the top are those where the equality is best, and those lower down have higher (often much higher) inequality.

Of course, I would never give up my freedom to have low taxes so I can buy an SUV, even if my blood pressure will be through the roof from all the traffic jams I'll have to sit through everyday.

That is another difference between Europeans and Americans. The view of taxes. While no one likes taxes, most Europeans accept that taxes are needed to maintain the society they have built over the decades and maintain that happiness. It is a small price to pay so to say. If you ask an European about UHC, free schools and so on and if they were willing to give it up for say 20% less (in %) in taxes, then most will say no.

On the other hand Americans see any form of taxes as "taking their freedoms" from them, which I have yet to get explained how..

But newsflash.. I can as a Dane goto a private hospital, get private health insurance, unemployment insurance, buy an SUV (although why would I), have several homes in several countries, move around where ever I want, work where I want, do what I want and buy what I want and if I see fit, start a business in any industry I want.. how different is that from an American?

No difference, other than I dont have to buy private health insurance because I have UHC and I already pay into basic unemployment insurance over certain taxes.. although a huge portion of Danes pay into a private unemployment insurance as part of their union dues.

So what "freedoms" are taken away from me as a Dane?

Interesting about UK/France being near the bottom though. Definitely something else at play. I'd say constant dismal weather would play a role if it was just the UK, but I'm pretty sure France gets a lot of sunshine.

Not surprised about the UK one bit. The income inequality in the country is huge for European standards and other issues magnify the "unhappiness" of Brits.

France a bit more, but that can be explained by social issues and mentality. The French love to complain :) But here I suspect unemployment factors pay a large part in the unhappiness regardless of the safety nets and so on. Long term unemployment in France has always been high due to the very poor labour laws France has. Add to that social frictions between certain areas of French society, and then you get a lower happiness factor.
 
Stop trying to hijack the thread. If you don't want to address the subject at hand, kindly go away.

What do you think makes a nation happy (or unhappy)?

Linving in a safe village but not having to be the cop ?
 
Let's reverse that.

How happy would America be if Europe didn't exist?

Answer is it wouldn't matter because America wouldn't exist.

I guess you've forgotten about those pesky Native Americans. ;)
 
Well, a definite prerequisite seems to be a large social safety net,
The ironic thing is you are probably literally right. It was vague about how this was actually decided upon but I wouldn't be suprised if simply the existence of these large state social nets were taken as being a positive for happiness.

I think it goes without saying that this survey is not definitive, particularly without seeing the methodology and with the hints that factors like GDP and such were taken as an important raw part of happiness.
 
More social services, more civil liberties, cleaner environments, and a healthier work ethic. I think those are the main ones that make nations more happy. On average, Americans get 2-3 weeks off per year. Most of the countries on that list get a month or more. Canada is further down the list because it tends to have a work ethic similar to America's, in that people work longer, get less time off, and have fewer benefits.
 
Off a month or more? I better start packing......(o:

That must be nice for them to have something to look forward to and what I would call generous time off.....that would never happen here that's for sure....;)
 
Perhaps, but there will always be some higher cause. Everyone in Europe and the Americas could work 18 hours a day...but most people don't want that and they'd be downright miserable. I'm certainly not suggesting that poorer nations don't deserve our help...but for most people, their first priority is their own life and their own happiness.

I can see that. But I just feel that, especially if someone is liberal, their their priority should be with what is best for ALL people, not just the people inside of their own borders.

and of course I also support a ballance of happiness and economic growth. free highschool and primary education, insurance for the elderly and unemployment insurance are fine, but I am just trying to stay in perspective to the direction that people in developed nations should go.

I just think that in a few hundred years when poverty is irradicated, the welfare state in Europe and socialist policies in undeveloped nations will be percieved as something that prolonged poverty as we know it today.
 
I just think that in a few hundred years when poverty is irradicated, the welfare state in Europe and socialist policies in undeveloped nations will be percieved as something that prolonged poverty as we know it today.

I see the total opposite.

If anything, out right capitalism like the American version has prolonged poverty among certain aspects of society (racial, geographical) for many many many years and decades as they have "dropped through the cracks en mass". Yes it has expanded the overall economic situation of the country, no doubt about that, but it has also left quite a few "behind" with very little hope or drive to improve their life style. This is clearly seen in the income inequality numbers when comparing most European countries and the US.

Now capitalism has been around since the dawn of time basicly and it has not irradicated poverty in anyway.. in fact I would claim it has expanded and prolonged it for centuries and centuries because it was not only profitable but politically advantageous in having masses of poor uneducated masses to rule over.

It is only after "socialism" showed its ugly head that poverty has been slowly reduced in the west over years, basicly because of the fear of loosing power by the "capitalists" forced the old guard to change their attitudes to people and hence their attitude to society as a whole. Things like a fair wage, abolishing slavery, banning child exploitation and basic education for the masses and so on, all done due the threat of the socialist menace.... dont think for a second that any capitalist would give up such things voluntarily... it after all hurts the bottom line.

Now lets not get into another cluster**** over defining poverty because it is a relative term compared to the overall population and is hard to compare the US and EU as they have different measurements of poverty.
 
PeteEU, I agree with some of what you said, probably because I am Canadian. I believe the health of the public is largely dependent upon redistribution of wealth. That said, it should be done at moderate levels. Some European countries have an extremely high tax rate and some of them, such as Germany, have social systems that are gradually collapsing due to the retirement of the baby boomers. In those situations, less of a dependency upon government and substitution with some private institutions could offset a lot of the pressure.

I don't think it's as simple as saying social welfare does or doesn't contribute to poverty. It really depends on which person you are talking about. There are definitely abuses of the system but there are also those who are genuinely in need, and letting people slip through the cracks in rich, developed nations like the United States or the nations in Western Europe, is unnecessary.

It's when the middle class starts to dwindle due to lack of redistribution that you start to experience nation-wide revolutions.
 
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