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Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

Laila

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Arab states are revising elements of a 2002 peace plan to encourage Israel to agree to the establishment of a demilitarized Palestinian state, the London-based paper Al-Quds al-Arabi reported Wednesday.

The countries are making the amendments at United States President Barack Obama's request, the paper said. Some of the changes deal with a controversial "right of return" for Palestinian refugees to Israel or a future state of Palestine.

The notion of a return to Israel proper by Palestinian refugees and their descendents has met with considerable opposition in Israel from across the political spectrum

According to the pan-Arab paper, the amendments are also to the framing of a timetable for the normalization of relations between Israel and the Arab world, which the plan offers in exchange for Israel's withdrawal from territory conquered in the 1967 Six Day War.

Jordan's King Abdullah, who recently met with Obama in Washington, is managing the contacts held to revise the initiative. Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak will reportedly present the plan to Obama in a meeting in a number of weeks.

'Arabs revising peace plan to win Israel backing for two states' - Haaretz - Israel News

The most interesting part for me is the fact it was done because of the President's request.
I wonder what will happen now, hopefully Israel will also make some concessions and we can all live happily ever after lol :2wave:
 
These incompetitent leaders are wasting there time. There will never be a settlement between the two without only one side being satisfied with the plan. Its going to take a bloody war to settle this one, i know it, and its going to be the Arabs that will loose out. As if it was unlikely for any peace solution to be agreed on anyway, with Benjamin Netanyahu and Avigdor Lieberman at the healm of things, you can forget about a Jewish-Arab peace deal.
 
As if it was unlikely for any peace solution to be agreed on anyway, with Benjamin Netanyahu and Avigdor Lieberman at the healm of things, you can forget about a Jewish-Arab peace deal.

I disagree.
Peace can be done without a war. All is needed is sacrifices to be made on both parties.

I think this time it'll be the Israelis that will be unwilling for peace with the crazies in Government.

How ironic, the Arabs are finally making concessions on key issues with the promise of recognition and the normalization of relations with the support of the Arab league and US/EU and i bet you alot Israel will reject it ...
 
I disagree.
Peace can be done without a war. All is needed is sacrifices to be made on both parties.

But thats precisely the point. The Arabs are lobbying for something the nationalist ruling Israeli party, Yisrael Beiteinu, want the opposite of. They dont want a comprehensive deal with the Arabs. They do not agree with the roadmap the previous administration and the Arabs had agreed on, and they are not willing to make any sacrifices. So how could they possibly reach an agreement that would satisfy both Arab and Jewish parties?

I think this time it'll be the Israelis that will be unwilling for peace with the crazies in Government.

I have been saying this. With Netanyahu and Avigdor Lieberman at the healm of things, this so called peace deal is going no where. End of. I believe it would have been unlikely to reach a completely satisfactory agreement with the previous party anyway, though not to say it was impossible, now? The window of opportunity is gone. And to further my point, the Jews knew what they where in for when they voted for the Yisrael Beiteinu party, they knew what Netanyahu and Avigdor wanted with Israel, so if a peace solution was reached by the previous administration, clearly it would have come at the expense of a lack of support from the people. Thats where the real trouble starts.
 
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I disagree.
Peace can be done without a war. All is needed is sacrifices to be made on both parties.

I think this time it'll be the Israelis that will be unwilling for peace with the crazies in Government.

How ironic, the Arabs are finally making concessions on key issues with the promise of recognition and the normalization of relations with the support of the Arab league and US/EU and i bet you alot Israel will reject it ...
Israel offered to give Arafat everything he asked for; he then refused. Does that answer your question. You have to be anti-semitic to say the stuff you're saying. Israel always has to sacrifice in your book, but never the Palestinians. Read some history, the Turks created this problem, they took the land from the Palestinians.
 
Israel offered to give Arafat everything he asked for; he then refused. Does that answer your question. You have to be anti-semitic to say the stuff you're saying. Israel always has to sacrifice in your book, but never the Palestinians. Read some history, the Turks created this problem, they took the land from the Palestinians.

Wow it took only 5 posts to see the first "you're antisemite" argument!

Errors have been made by every side, but who is refusing to negociate today? Who is against the 2 states solution? Who doesn't make concessions?
 
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Wow it took only 5 posts to see the first "you're antisemite" argument!
Your post shows you're not far from it yourself. Kiss the Palestinians' asses and pull out of the your land. Nice approach, it hasn't brought peace yet.
 
These incompetitent leaders are wasting there time. There will never be a settlement between the two without only one side being satisfied with the plan. Its going to take a bloody war to settle this one, i know it, and its going to be the Arabs that will loose out. As if it was unlikely for any peace solution to be agreed on anyway, with Benjamin Netanyahu and Avigdor Lieberman at the healm of things, you can forget about a Jewish-Arab peace deal.

History is knocking, let them in.
 
Israel offered to give Arafat everything he asked for; he then refused. Does that answer your question. You have to be anti-semitic to say the stuff you're saying. Israel always has to sacrifice in your book, but never the Palestinians. Read some history, the Turks created this problem, they took the land from the Palestinians.

Do you have any idea what "anti-semitic" actually means?
 
Israel offered to give Arafat everything he asked for; he then refused. Does that answer your question. You have to be anti-semitic to say the stuff you're saying. Israel always has to sacrifice in your book, but never the Palestinians. Read some history, the Turks created this problem, they took the land from the Palestinians.

So what is Israel "sacrificing" if it returns the territories it occupied in 1967? What is Israel "sacrificing" if it allows Palestinians to return to Israel? Are Palestinians such a blight on the land that their presence will somehow harm Israel?
 
Your post shows you're not far from it yourself.

I don't want to derail the thread or start ad-homs, but being labelled antisemite by someone who believes that Obama is a marxist isn't very worrying...
 
Israel offered to give Arafat everything he asked for; he then refused. Does that answer your question. You have to be anti-semitic to say the stuff you're saying. Israel always has to sacrifice in your book, but never the Palestinians. Read some history, the Turks created this problem, they took the land from the Palestinians.

Whats history got to do with Laila's point? Why must we read up on history in order to create a Jewish-Palestinian peace deal? I dont get your point. Do you just throw **** out there for the sake of it? This is the first time ive heard anything of the sort either. Makes me wonder if your making it up. :roll:
 
I disagree.
Peace can be done without a war. All is needed is sacrifices to be made on both parties.

I think this time it'll be the Israelis that will be unwilling for peace with the crazies in Government.

How ironic, the Arabs are finally making concessions on key issues with the promise of recognition and the normalization of relations with the support of the Arab league and US/EU and i bet you alot Israel will reject it ...

Israel offered to give Arafat everything he asked for; he then refused. Does that answer your question. You have to be anti-semitic to say the stuff you're saying. Israel always has to sacrifice in your book, but never the Palestinians. Read some history, the Turks created this problem, they took the land from the Palestinians.

I think you have it backwards. It's not that Laila is arguing against Isreal, but rather that Arafat refused the peace offerring made by Isreal. There's nothing anti-semitic in Laila's veiw of the matter at all here.
 
So what is Israel "sacrificing" if it returns the territories it occupied in 1967? What is Israel "sacrificing" if it allows Palestinians to return to Israel? Are Palestinians such a blight on the land that their presence will somehow harm Israel?
It won the land in a war. Palestinians have been supporting the firing of rockets into Israel, and you want them to let them back in. Hello!!!
 
'Arabs revising peace plan to win Israel backing for two states' - Haaretz - Israel News

The most interesting part for me is the fact it was done because of the President's request.
I wonder what will happen now, hopefully Israel will also make some concessions...

Laila,

The Arab initiative--revised or not--can't be a "take it or leave it" proposition, if it is to be a milestone on the road to peace. It can be a constructive starting point.

But for things to move from concept to concrete substance, the parties will need to engage in direct negotiations. Only through negotiations can differences be bridged and mutual needs accommodated.
 
It won the land in a war.

It "won the land in a war." Just like Saddam "won the land in Kuwait" when he invaded. But we saw fit to kick him out. Just like we won Iraq in a war. But everyone sure as hell wants us out. Just because Israel "won it in a war" doesn't make the land theirs, it makes occupied territory. Israel didn't gain ownership of it, they took it by force and continue to occupy it. Just like Iraq occupied Kuwait, and we occupied Iraq.

Palestinians have been supporting the firing of rockets into Israel, and you want them to let them back in. Hello!!!
And Israel has dropped a mailed fist on them repeatedly. I get it. There is a war going on. But some Palestinians and some Israeli's would seriously like to see an end to the fighting. In fact I would bet most would. The question is how do they reach an amicable solution.

I'm rather hopeful, even if it sounds naive to be so, that at some point a solution will be reached. I do not think the Israelis and Palestinians are such animals that they simply fight out of instinct. But that's just me.
 
But some Palestinians and some Israeli's would seriously like to see an end to the fighting. In fact I would bet most would. The question is how do they reach an amicable solution.
.

Polls show that 72% of the Palestinian want the 2-states solution
 
You have to be anti-semitic to say the stuff you're saying.

Yes, because criticizing Israel in ANY way makes someone an anti-semitic. :roll:
 
I have been saying this. With Netanyahu and Avigdor Lieberman at the healm of things, this so called peace deal is going no where. End of. I believe it would have been unlikely to reach a completely satisfactory agreement with the previous party anyway, though not to say it was impossible, now? The window of opportunity is gone. And to further my point, the Jews knew what they where in for when they voted for the Yisrael Beiteinu party, they knew what Netanyahu and Avigdor wanted with Israel, so if a peace solution was reached by the previous administration, clearly it would have come at the expense of a lack of support from the people. Thats where the real trouble starts.
I've thought about this. Why is Netanyahu the Israeli PM today?

The Livni block did indeed garner the most votes in the election, but not enough to form a working government without embracing the various minority blocks and thus diluting the Kadima platform.

Remember that the election was held in the midst of conflict with Hamas. Olmert and Kadima had previously adopted a very moderate postion in regards to negotiations with Abbas. It was Livni's intent to continue this moderate stance after the election.

Olmert asked, cajoled, pleaded, and warned Hamas to stop the incessant rocket attacks. Hamas refused. Due to the great internal pressures from Israelis fed up with the Hamas attacks, Olmert had virtually no viable alternative except to initiate blunt force.

I personally believe that if Hamas had stopped with the attacks (even temporarily), Livni would have garnered the plurality necessary to claim uncontested victory and form a majority moderate government. But Hamas didn't stop. It instead increased the tempo and violence of the attacks. Many Israeli voters who had intended to vote for Livni considered the situation and came to the conclusion that Hamas had no intention whatsoever of meeting a moderate Kadima government even halfway. Continued warfare was unavoidable. In such a war environment, many people understandably prefer a hawkish government. This preference sucked precious votes away from Livni and the moderates.

One could easily speculate that the increased Hamas attacks were calculated to almost ensure that post-election, Abbas would have to deal with the implacable Netanyahu rather than the more moderate and flexible Livni.

The calculated Hamas rocket attacks were political arrows rather than resistence weaponry. The implications are clear. The result is before your eyes. One could venture to say that Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu is the love child of Hamas rockets and intransigence.
 
I've thought about this. Why is Netanyahu the Israeli PM today?

The Livni block did indeed garner the most votes in the election, but not enough to form a working government without embracing the various minority blocks and thus diluting the Kadima platform.

Remember that the election was held in the midst of conflict with Hamas. Olmert and Kadima had previously adopted a very moderate postion in regards to negotiations with Abbas. It was Livni's intent to continue this moderate stance after the election.

Olmert asked, cajoled, pleaded, and warned Hamas to stop the incessant rocket attacks. Hamas refused. Due to the great internal pressures from Israelis fed up with the Hamas attacks, Olmert had virtually no viable alternative except to initiate blunt force.

I personally believe that if Hamas had stopped with the attacks (even temporarily), Livni would have garnered the plurality necessary to claim uncontested victory and form a majority moderate government. But Hamas didn't stop. It instead increased the tempo and violence of the attacks. Many Israeli voters who had intended to vote for Livni considered the situation and came to the conclusion that Hamas had no intention whatsoever of meeting a moderate Kadima government even halfway. Continued warfare was unavoidable. In such a war environment, many people understandably prefer a hawkish government. This preference sucked precious votes away from Livni and the moderates.

One could easily speculate that the increased Hamas attacks were calculated to almost ensure that post-election, Abbas would have to deal with the implacable Netanyahu rather than the more moderate and flexible Livni.

The calculated Hamas rocket attacks were political arrows rather than resistence weaponry. The implications are clear. The result is before your eyes. One could venture to say that Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu is the love child of Hamas rockets and intransigence.

I've thought about this myself. Hamas stands to lose power and influence among Palestinians if an actual peace plan begins to emerge. I don't think they want that. Hamas has no interest in peace, but I think most Palestinians really do.
 
You have to be anti-semitic to say the stuff you're saying.

Are you even aware of the definition?
Go pick up a dictionary before calling me anything.
 
Laila,

The Arab initiative--revised or not--can't be a "take it or leave it" proposition, if it is to be a milestone on the road to peace. It can be a constructive starting point.

But for things to move from concept to concrete substance, the parties will need to engage in direct negotiations. Only through negotiations can differences be bridged and mutual needs accommodated.

For me, this is the almost near perfect peace plan we will ever get.
Israelis get recognition, normalization of ties, demilitarized Palestinian state, no longer have to take the 'right to return' for palestinians to their old homes in Israel, Arab help in securing the region ...

A seperate Palestinian state will be recreated with the blessing of the world, east jerusalem as their capital and UN having a role in the capital :/

What else do Israelis want? It seems that is everything they have been asking for ....

Either way, the one good thing in this whole thing is that it brings Arabs out in the good light and shows they are willing to make concessions for peace. The ball is in the hands of the highly nationalistic [who has not even recognised the need for a two state solution] government who is extreme.
 
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It "won the land in a war." Just like Saddam "won the land in Kuwait" when he invaded. But we saw fit to kick him out. Just like we won Iraq in a war. But everyone sure as hell wants us out. Just because Israel "won it in a war" doesn't make the land theirs, it makes occupied territory. Israel didn't gain ownership of it, they took it by force and continue to occupy it. Just like Iraq occupied Kuwait, and we occupied Iraq.


And Israel has dropped a mailed fist on them repeatedly. I get it. There is a war going on. But some Palestinians and some Israeli's would seriously like to see an end to the fighting. In fact I would bet most would. The question is how do they reach an amicable solution.

I'm rather hopeful, even if it sounds naive to be so, that at some point a solution will be reached. I do not think the Israelis and Palestinians are such animals that they simply fight out of instinct. But that's just me.
The Arabs attacked Israel first, and lost.
 
The Arabs attacked Israel first, and lost.

I was watching Defiance today. Its about Jews on the run and hiding in the deep forests of the then German occupied Poland and Belorussia (World War II), the three Bielski brothers find the impossible task of foraging for food and weapons for their survival. They live, not only with the fear of discovery, contending with neighboring Soviet partisans and knowing whom to trust but also take the responsibility of looking after a large mass of fleeing Polish Jews from the German war machine. Women, men, children, the elderly and the young alike are all hiding in makeshift homes in the dark, cold and unforgiving forests in the darkest times of German occupied Eastern Europe.

It depicts the bravery, the might, the resolve, and the strength of the Jewish people, even when times got desperate. They lived in forests, hunted like animals. They survived off nature, food was scarce, and times was dangerous; but they where free. Daniel craig plays as one of the leaders of the group. I recommend you all watch it. Its a true story.

I tell of this story because it depicts a race of people having to struggle against a rising tide of perposterous evil. There very existence threatened. There bravery and courage charmes me everytime i think about this wonderful story, and it also reminds each time, that for such a thing to ever happen again, against the Jewish people, would be a travesty and a failure on the part of all mankind. Therefore, to avoid a repeat of the future, we must ensure that both Arabs and Jews find a peaceful, well thought out deal, and a home in the Middle East, together. In otherwords, it must be known to the Jewish people that supporting the unpeaceful ideologies of Netanyahu's party will never bring peace to them in a homeland where for once in there history, they can remain undisturbed. :2wave:
 
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