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U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanistan

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

TheNextEra said:
Thank you, seriously, but your previous response is pretty snotty and could have been REALLY cleared up with this.

I don't claim I didn't make a mistake in not reading it, but I only responded to your comment in kind. Had you presented this, it would have been much more civilized.

Again thank you for providing this and clearing up my mistake on Gy's intent.
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Yeah well, I get snotty at times so no biggie. Sometimes it's just like banging your head against the wall though. A guy comes on, clearly explains himself, and that's followed by a bunch of folks saying, "So you don't have a problem with the military doing this, you think it's their JOB???" makes you want put a fork through your eye. :mrgreen:
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Shewter said:
And that's up to you to decide?
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In this case, yes.

Shewter said:
The book they are being handed?
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So when a non-Christian gets handed any different religious book they should be insulted? :lol:

Shewter said:
You're going to hell if you don't do this. There's the "difference".
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No there is not. It is a book that may or may not be correct, most non-Christians know this. So again no reason to be insulted. In fact it is just you making excuses for being offended by something you can take with a grain of salt if you so choose.

Shewter said:
Once again, the thickness of skin so to speak, is not for you to decide.
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Not true. I know what is reasonable and what is not according to our society. Being offended by someone handing you a Bible is unreasonable. Being annoyed, yes no problem, being offended is just over the top. Anyone can see this.

Shewter said:
This country is getting so messed up because you are being told that your religion should not be pushed on someone with a claimed faith already?
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No. Nice fallacy argument.

It is getting ruined by PC people who get offended by anything they don't agree with.

Shewter said:
I suppose I wouldnt care as much if there werent so much fire and brimstone included in the texts. But seeing how it's well known what the bible thinks of people of other faiths, yeah.... Think about it.
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If they are strong in whatever faith they follow, why would it matter? I know as a Christian I don't really care if someone of another faith thinks differently. It is a free country and I enjoy the same right to freedom of religion as they do.

I am strong in my faith and have no doubts I am on the correct path for me. So why would say a Muslim handing me a book insult me or my faith? Fact is it shouldn't, unless you are already weak in whatever faith you choose to follow.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Blackdog said:
So when a non-Christian gets handed any different religious book they should be insulted? :lol:
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Not at all if it is from a non-military person.

However if it is from a military person that is currently part of a personnel that came and blew your country to hell and limb and killed civilians even if it was non-intentional, yeah, I would say it would be insulting to me.

Again, since when did it become the mission of the U.S. military to pass along CHRISTIAN bibles?
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

TheNextEra said:
Not at all if it is from a non-military person.

However if it is from a military person that is currently part of a personnel that came and blew your country to hell and limb and killed civilians even if it was non-intentional, yeah, I would say it would be insulting to me.
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So if the solider in question did it out of uniform it would be OK?

Again I say if the person of faith is strong in what they believe it should not matter, period.

TheNextEra said:
Again, since when did it become the mission of the U.S. military to pass along CHRISTIAN bibles?
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It's not, and I agree with you. I mentioned as much pages back in this thread.

So please don't assume my position without at least peaking at what came before. I know it's a pain, but it avoids confusion.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Ikari said:
If they actually handed out the bibles to the native people, then they committed a crime.
The "are they guilty or not" is not a debate on whether or not it's ok to hand out bibles. The military is expressly forbidden from doing that.
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Quote me a link to the law you are referring to.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Jerry said:
the Marines shouldn't be handing out religious material since it invites even more violence, .
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That is the whole reason we are there baby.

Incite that attempt at violence and then kill the perpetrators thereof. Pretty soon, no-one gets attacked for religious crap, because we shot everyone with that proclivity. Obama can put up a "Messiah Accomplished" banner and we can go home.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Blackdog said:
In this case, yes.
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Just like religion, this is purely opinion.

So when a non-Christian gets handed any different religious book they should be insulted? :lol:
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I would apply that equally to anyone who would rather not be told that they are "going to hell" because of their religious beliefs.



No there is not. It is a book that may or may not be correct, most non-Christians know this. So again no reason to be insulted. In fact it is just you making excuses for being offended by something you can take with a grain of salt if you so choose.
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It's not me that has an issue with the silly stories in that table-leveling device. I just see how if you are dedicated to a certain faith and you are being handed a book that tells you that you are going to hell because of it, it can be very offensive.



Not true. I know what is reasonable and what is not according to our society. Being offended by someone handing you a Bible is unreasonable. Being annoyed, yes no problem, being offended is just over the top. Anyone can see this.
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It is not our society. It is theirs, remember? Afghanistan?



No. Nice fallacy argument.

It is getting ruined by PC people who get offended by anything they don't agree with.
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I'm sure the PC bs wouldnt be pushed so hard i there werent people that actually agreed with crap like this. :roll:



If they are strong in whatever faith they follow, why would it matter? I know as a Christian I don't really care if someone of another faith thinks differently. It is a free country and I enjoy the same right to freedom of religion as they do.

I am strong in my faith and have no doubts I am on the correct path for me. So why would say a Muslim handing me a book insult me or my faith? Fact is it shouldn't, unless you are already weak in whatever faith you choose to follow.
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Strength or weakness in your faith has nothing to do with this. The fact of the matter is it is a completely different world over there.

I'm sure this arguement wouldnt be going very far if the scenario was reversed and it was Afghan troops in OUR country handing us a book that told you that you were wrong.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Here's a chocolate bar, it is what I eat on a daily basis.

Here's a bible, it is what I read on a daily basis.

Big deal.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Blackdog said:
So if the solider in question did it out of uniform it would be OK? [/quote[

Sure if the person in question was no longer in the military and got out of it, my blessings.

Blackdog said:
It's not, and I agree with you. I mentioned as much pages back in this thread.

So please don't assume my position without at least peaking at what came before. I know it's a pain, but it avoids confusion.
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no problem then, just show me that person the person that is out of the military and turned peace to Afghanistan and we will have no problem.

Here is the problem though, you have shown me no such person and the U.S. personnel is being used to shove this religion down people's throats.
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Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

TheNextEra said:
... to shove this religion down people's throats.
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That isn't what is happening.
 
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Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Shewter said:
Just like religion, this is purely opinion.
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With a little common sense thrown in.

Shewter said:
I would apply that equally to anyone who would rather not be told that they are "going to hell" because of their religious beliefs.
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If they don't believe it, why would anyone care? Unless on some level they believed it is true?

Otherwise it is just silly. Sticks and stones, remember?

Shewter said:
It's not me that has an issue with the silly stories in that table-leveling device.
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So you are admitting you do have a problem with the story's etc in a 2000 year old book? Interesting. Yet you say you don't believe in it?

It would be like me being upset because someone who follows Scientology tells me I will never be clear of "thetans" and thus never reach whatever it is they reach for. I don't believe it, so it really does not matter and it certainly is no insult.

Shewter said:
I just see how if you are dedicated to a certain faith and you are being handed a book that tells you that you are going to hell because of it, it can be very offensive.
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If you don't believe it is anything more than a book of mythology and fairy tails anyway, where is the insult? So if someone hands me a book on Babylonian mythology I should be insulted? :lol:

You are not going to hell because of any book.

Shewter said:
It is not our society. It is theirs, remember? Afghanistan?
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Irrelivant.

Anyone who would be insulted by a book being handed to them, is according to logic and reason stupid.

Shewter said:
I'm sure the PC bs wouldnt be pushed so hard i there werent people that actually agreed with crap like this. :roll:
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Yes I agree. Who needs logic and reason anyway. :doh

Shewter said:
Strength or weakness in your faith has nothing to do with this. The fact of the matter is it is a completely different world over there.
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Logic and reason do not change.

Shewter said:
I'm sure this arguement wouldnt be going very far if the scenario was reversed and it was Afghan troops in OUR country handing us a book that told you that you were wrong.
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I am a Jeffersonian, it would be going exactly the same except we mite not have the freedom to discuss it openly.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

TheNextEra said:
no problem then, just show me that person the person that is out of the military and turned peace to Afghanistan and we will have no problem.
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I have no idea what you just said.

I am going out on a limb here and asking what this has to do with my agreeing with you???

TheNextEra said:
Here is the problem though, you have shown me no such person and the U.S. personnel is being used to shove this religion down people's throats.
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Again what the heck are you talking about and how does this have anything to do with me agreeing with you???
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Ikari said:
I can agree with those. I just think that we should try to figure out maybe how some of our actions can come back on us and try to make more researched decisions. I'm not saying that we go isolationist or refuse to uphold treaty, but I do think that maybe we've taken a rather caviler attitude towards our intervention, and I'm not so sure that's the best.
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Apathy is one of those actions. Doing nothing is often times far worse than doing something especially in a world where a leader or guiding hand is to self conscious, afraid, or impotent to give direction in the chaos with a carrot or a stick.

Ikari said:
There is a thing called blow back, it's real. Multiple decades of intervention in the Middle East has left a less than favorable taste for the West as a whole. This has fed well into propaganda for the terrorists. In the end, we should note the supply of terrorists is near infinite, so the best way to impact what they can do is to destroy the propaganda they use to swing people to their side. Always be terrorists, deal with it on an individual basis. Messing with all these countries and people and occupying land and such...not sure it has the effect some people envision. This can (and probably will if history is any lesson on this) come back and bite us hard in the ass.
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There are always consequences; there is no inconsequential solution. Both apathy and intervention have penalties. However, intervention grants one the benefit to mold the future. As history has shown the positive has outweighed the negative. This is no small feat which can't be appreciated until imagining the consequences of a world dominated by any other country save a few.

Ikari said:
Perpetual war is not a good situation, and that is where we're driving towards.
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We are centuries if not millenniums away from a future without conflict. assuming the human species survives.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

scourge99 said:
Apathy is one of those actions. Doing nothing is often times far worse than doing something especially in a world where a leader or guiding hand is to self conscious, afraid, or impotent to give direction in the chaos with a carrot or a stick.
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I didn't say do nothing, but rather avoid if possible military intervention and occupation of lands. That in the end does more bad than good. There are things which can be done diplomatically and economically which could aid us well more than running into a country, blowing crap up, and declaring ourselves winner. I don't know what to say, if you don't think that would have some serious negative consequences we're just at an impasse, but history supports my claims. How many times have we monkeyed with things to have it blow up in our faces?

scourge99 said:
There are always consequences; there is no inconsequential solution. Both apathy and intervention have penalties. However, intervention grants one the benefit to mold the future. As history has shown the positive has outweighed the negative. This is no small feat which can't be appreciated until imagining the consequences of a world dominated by any other country save a few.
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I don't think people seriously consider the ramifications and blow back which occur with military occupation of foriegn lands, especially in a region already hostile to the West. Sometimes you can't avoid war, but I fear that many want to rush into it without thinking things through or considering the negative consequences which come from it.

scourge99 said:
We are centuries if not millenniums away from a future without conflict. assuming the human species survives.
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There is a difference between occasional war and perpetual war. I'm not saying we'll drive to the no war case by following what I think would be prudent actions. However, it would avoid perpetual war; which is the direction we're running towards. Perpetual war has horrible consequences.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

talloulou said:
As a side bar are military folks allowed or not allowed to wander around in uniform at malls, the movies, etc. This is an argument some friends of mine were having the other day.
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I was looking into this one the other day for unrelated reasons (I can PM them to you if you would like to know).

As far as I can tell, military personnel are allowed to wear their uniform while off duty just about whenever they want so long as where they are and what they're doing does not disgrace the uniform or appear to endorse a product.

GySgt said:
Depends on the branch of service and the uniform. If you are a soldier, an airman, or a sailor, you can be as nasty as you want to be. They are authorized to walk down Malls, Wal-Marts, and even upscale their eating habits by passing up McDonalds to enter a Taco Bell (careful of Swine) in their camoflouge utilities and their PT gear. Marines are not. The utility unform is considered a work uniform, which means that mud, grease, and oil travels with you. The PT uniform is made to sweat. Both uniforms do little to show off the military and to serve in an ambassadorial capacity. There was a time when Marines could wear their cammies to get gas and to pick up milk from a corner store for his baby and such, but not any more.

All branches, however, are authorized to wear dress uniforms in public. They are proper recruitment tools and they serves much like a man's business suit. If a man wants to show off his success, he shows up in his business suit and carries himself in a specific manner. The military man (or woman) should do the same.
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Makes sense, I was looking into the rules for the Army at the time.

In my fast food days I often saw Solders and Airmen come in to eat in uniform, but never Marines even though I knew there were Marines stationed near by.

Now I know why.
 
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Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Ikari said:
The video is very real. Are you saying that we shouldn't investigate wrong doing and misconduct in our military? Interesting.
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I'm saning the military will deal with its own problems without the aid of outside whiners seeking to stand behind pulpits while validating the exaggerated accusations of the enemy. Was this "interesting" too?
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

TheNextEra said:
Again Show me where it is the job of the military to hand out bibles to people that don't request one from a chaplain?
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During ther '90s, the military was tasked with operationas and missions it was ill suited for. The military, known for its mission of death and destruction, found itself on one humanitarian mission after another without the proper training. In other words, the military frequently does what is not its "job."


TheNextEra said:
Do you think it is ok for the U.S. military to endorse one religion and spread it?
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Here is the fact....the U.S. military has not endorsed anything of the sort. The U.S. military is full of religions and Chaplians and Priests are trained to accomodate all of them.

As I have said, you people are arguing non-issues and giving hand jobs to the enemy with your weak and pathetic validations.
 
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Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

GySgt said:
During ther '90s, the military was tasked with operationas and missions it was ill suited for. The military, known for its mission of death and destruction, found itself on one humanitarian mission after another without the proper training. In other words, the military frequently does what is not its "job."




Here is the fact....the U.S. military has not endorsed anything of the sort. The U.S. military is full of religions and Chaplians and Priests are trained to accomodate all of them.

As I have said, you people are arguing non-issues and giving hand jobs to the enemy with your weak and pathetic validations.
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On the first part of what you posted, I completely agree with you. If we want to do humanitarian missions, then we should strengthen the Peace Corps, and let the military do what it does best - Killing threats to America's security.
 
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Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

TheNextEra said:
Thank you, seriously, but your previous response was (IMO) pretty snotty and could have been REALLY cleared up with this.
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Your redundant and pointless questioning and her efforts to explain to you the obvious could have been completely avoided had you not behaved obtusely in the first place.

Considering that the "military" didn't hand out Bibles and that the "military" hadn't endorsed anything of the sort, questioning whether or not the job of the military is to pass out Bibles was pointless.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

GySgt said:
I'm saning the military will deal with its own problems without the aid of outside whiners seeking to stand behind pulpits while validating the exaggerated accusations of the enemy. Was this "interesting" too?
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Yes, you basically said if the military does anything wrong, ignore it. I'm not much of a believer in self-policing branches of the government. Mostly it doesn't happen.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

talloulou said:
They absolutely do have a mission to provide ministry to our service men and women who want it. They also have conduct restraints and any goal of converting foreigners in foreign lands while "on duty," would be a conduct violation.
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And no xian would ever dare do something their god says ythey should do when there are governmental "restrictions" against it. :roll:
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Blackdog said:
How is it being forced (that word again) by the state? Because they are in the military this is somehow the state forcing the issue?

I could understand if the troops were given legal orders to go out and convert people by what ever you consider "force" insulting, but this is not the case.

As far as handing out Satanic bibles, so what? You say not interested and move on. No insult, no foul.
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I guess you don't understand the concept of perception. I know it's hard to understand but maybe some muslims don't think about religion in the same way you do. Handing a bible to a devout muslim just might be the same to them as saying, your religion is false, here's the true religion. They might take offense and they might perceive it as our nations policy to convert islam. They might not want their children exposed to what they believe is a false religion, because like fundy xian parents, they fear that their efforts to inculcate their children into the correct religion will be undermined.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Slippery Slope said:
Handing a bible to a devout muslim just might be the same to them as saying, your religion is false, here's the true religion. They might take offense and they might perceive it as our nations policy to convert islam.
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Well yeah, that may be how they react. You know, with the added pleasure of death threats or something.
People don't get that some Muslims don't like competition almost. They dislike Christianity stepping on their "turf" and fear people converting out.
If they allow one person, what will stop more?

I'm all for freedom of religion and the right to convert and believe what you want. Just not when you are in a war zone with already pissed off inhabitants.

Just to be clear, not all Muslims would react like that but that is how i'd imagine some Afghans would.
 
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Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

DamnYankee said:
What does that have to do with what is happening NOW! Just curious.
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Oh right, I forgot, we're supposed to forget any history that doesn't promote your current argument.

Beyond your disregard for history when that hisory is relevant, Catholic/Protestant fighting is STILL happening in Ireland. :doh
 
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