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U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanistan

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Ikari said:
You worried about Africa?
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Why would i be? Its the middle east that poses a global threat, not Africa. Dont twist my point into something unrelated and irrelevant.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Ikari said:
I don't know. I just don't see it as our problem. Less Saddam was a direct threat to the sovereignty of the United States, which he wasn't.
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He was, however, costing us constant headaches as we acted on the UN's behalf to contain him largely alone after 12 years. His existence and game playing saw increased American troop presence in the region. His defiance to obey the rules of losing his war while being allowed to maintain his throne desroyed any UN credibility created during the Gulf War. And in the end, men like Bin Laden would use our "presence in the Middle East" and the "starving children of Iraq" as just one more excuse to slaughter our people.

One way or another, sooner or later, Hussein had to go.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

kaya'08 said:
Lets face it. Americans done the region and Iraq a favour. This exact same method should be approached in Afghanistan. Out with the religious theocracy and in with a new democracy. A countries soviergn is of no importance when they pose a threat to there own people and the region, especially if it abuses human rights (the legalized rape law says it all).
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Social change cannot occur overnight. Iraq contained far more moderate and educated peoples than Afghan. Iraq is more susceptible to support and sustain a liberal democracy where afghan is not.

You cannot force an unwanted government on the majority without oppression or authorianism. Therefore, compromises must be made in the hopes that the society will eventually progress and institute the human rights which are enjoyed in the West.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

scourge99 said:
Social change cannot occur overnight. Iraq contained far more moderate and educated peoples than Afghan. Iraq is more susceptible to support and sustain a liberal democracy where afghan is not.

You cannot force an unwanted government on the majority without oppression or authorianism. Therefore, compromises must be made in the hopes that the society will eventually progress and institute the human rights which are enjoyed in the West.
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With education, gradual progress and changes, relaxation of strict pro-islamic laws, cultural exchange programmes to help Afghanistan widen there view on the world, paticularly the west, eventually, of course it is possible. Its more than feasible to turn Afghanistan into a democracy. We didnt turn Iraq into one overnight. I dont remember saying we did but thats not the point, things like this take time, and its something NATO would be wise to embark on again, otherwise we'll end up in there again doing the exact same thing 10 years from now like the first and second gulf wars.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Hatuey said:
U.S. soldiers running around trying to convert anyone in that region...
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Hasn't happened, won't ever happen. This thread is nothing more than an excuse to piss and moan while engaging heavily in intellectual masturbation.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Ikari said:
In the military it's illegal to proselytize, that's the point. There are reports that maybe some individuals within the military did it. It's not the military on the whole doing it, it would be a much different scenario then with orders of magnitude more outrage. But the military made it illegal, any of its troops which engage in it have committed a crime. There is indication that maybe that had gone on with a few individuals within the military; that needs to be investigated.
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Since GySgt has been in the military, I'm sure he already knows what's allowed. So can we move on passed that and get to the important stuff? Yes, let's do investigate, let's form a commission (bipartisan of course, will more liberal atheists of course than Chrisitians), let's appoint an independent counsel, and find out how these poor Afghans were hurt by touching that Bible. They probably deserve a lifetime pension, and free counseling. Of course the illegals over here may protest that it will hurt their ability to get freebies. I can see this turning into a crisis on an international scale, which means the UN will have to arbitrate the solution.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Ikari said:
There are reports that maybe some individuals within the military did it.
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Reports that maybe...from Al-Jazeera....

It is a fact that with the numbers of deployed troops over the last 8 years that somebody has probably passed off a Bible. Let's say that out of the hundreds of thousands that have deployed that twenty passed off twenty Bibles. Is this worthy of some grave global concern about the dastardly American military on a crusade rampage? because this is exactly the type of garbage that Al-Jazeera uses to incite the massess, which drives the fanatic to action. And who legitimizes the fanatic's behavior? The Westerner who can;lt keep things in perspctives.

This is an internal minor issue and those "maybe" individuals may not even be in the military anymore. That's how much a story this is. Insignificant.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

GySgt said:
Reports that maybe...from Al-Jazeera....

It is a fact that with the numbers of deployed troops over the last 8 years that somebody has probably passed off a Bible. Let's say that out of the hundreds of thousands that have deployed that twenty passed off twenty Bibles. Is this worthy of some grave global concern about the dastardly American military on a crusade rampage? because this is exactly the type of garbage that Al-Jazeera uses to incite the massess, which drives the fanatic to action. And who legitimizes the fanatic's behavior? The Westerner who can;lt keep things in perspctives.

This is an internal minor issue and those "maybe" individuals may not even be in the military anymore. That's how much a story this is. Insignificant.
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Another important concern is, was anything flushed down a toilet?
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

American said:
Another important concern is, was anything flushed down a toilet?
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And that brings up another point of interest.

With Al-Jazeera seeking to make a story around a Bible that was "maybe" passed out as if it was an American or U.S. military agenda to convert the Muslim masses to Christianity, stories about the Qu'ran being handed out to Muslim prisoners with prayer time are absent.

I find it ironic how we are supposed to be the modern day crusaders in the Middle East, yet pass out the Qu'ran to Islamic prisoners. Of course, a story about how we truly treat Muslims who are incarcerated are covered up with stories of brutal torture and starvation protests and frat party behaviors by National Guardsmen. And as I stated in the post before this, it is the Westerner who points and exaggerates the issues that validates their dramatic portrayals of America.

Al-Jazeera can write all the stories they wish about Pokeman, Santa Clause, or the Great Satan. But the moment the West involves itself in pathetic self-flagilations and criticisms for the sake of understanding our enemy's feelings, we validate their BS.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Ikari said:
I don't know. I just don't see it as our problem. Less Saddam was a direct threat to the sovereignty of the United States, which he wasn't.
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So we should remove all of our troops from every part of the world because we can easily defend our sovereignty from direct attack? If you disagree, why?

The only purpose of having our forces overseas is to avoid genocide and inconviences like pirates (yarrrr)? If you disagree or wish to refine then please explain.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Ikari said:
As I have stated before, I'm not a "leftist". You have offered no argument which wasn't shut down, you resorted to nothing but insult. You haven't added anything significant or coherent to the debate.
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You are clearly left of center. Furthermore, all of your arguments are baseless and yet to be proven with one shred of evidence. Like most liberals, you have resorted to exaggerations, innuendo, and rumor. Not one bit of cogent thought, just more recycled leftist bs.

The final point is, our boys/girls in Afghanistan are innocent of the charges Al Jeezeera and their leftists allies assert. Plain and simple, you people need to get to hell over that instead of sh*tting on them every chance you people get.

My final thoughts on the matter. Now you may babble on.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

It would probably more efficient if we flew a B-52 over Afghanistan and dropped a few tons of Bibles down there. We could probably get those in the mountains much easier without have to send up a bunch of troops.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

scourge99 said:
So we should remove all of our troops from every part of the world because we can easily defend our sovereignty from direct attack? If you disagree, why?

The only purpose of having our forces overseas is to avoid genocide and inconviences like pirates (yarrrr)? If you disagree or wish to refine then please explain.
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I can agree with those. I just think that we should try to figure out maybe how some of our actions can come back on us and try to make more researched decisions. I'm not saying that we go isolationist or refuse to uphold treaty, but I do think that maybe we've taken a rather caviler attitude towards our intervention, and I'm not so sure that's the best. There is a thing called blow back, it's real. Multiple decades of intervention in the Middle East has left a less than favorable taste for the West as a whole. This has fed well into propaganda for the terrorists. In the end, we should note the supply of terrorists is near infinite, so the best way to impact what they can do is to destroy the propaganda they use to swing people to their side. Always be terrorists, deal with it on an individual basis. Messing with all these countries and people and occupying land and such...not sure it has the effect some people envision. This can (and probably will if history is any lesson on this) come back and bite us hard in the ass.

Perpetual war is not a good situation, and that is where we're driving towards.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

kaya'08 said:
With education, gradual progress and changes, relaxation of strict pro-islamic laws, cultural exchange programmes to help Afghanistan widen there view on the world, paticularly the west, eventually, of course it is possible. Its more than feasible to turn Afghanistan into a democracy. We didnt turn Iraq into one overnight. I dont remember saying we did but thats not the point, things like this take time, and its something NATO would be wise to embark on again, otherwise we'll end up in there again doing the exact same thing 10 years from now like the first and second gulf wars.
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Education and economic growth is no guarantee that a government will progress into a liberal democracy. China, though adopting capitalist tendencies is authoritarian and shows no signs of changing. As much as people wish to believe that the Chinese will one day bloom into a human-rights advocating super power there is no certainty or strong signs that such a cultural revolution will ever gain momentum.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

DamnYankee said:
You are clearly left of center.
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Really? Clearly? You do realize that being conservative involves more than just spewing that everyone around you is a leftist, right? Right?

Furthermore, all of your arguments are baseless and yet to be proven with one shred of evidence. Like most liberals, you have resorted to exaggerations, innuendo, and rumor. Not one bit of cogent thought, just more recycled leftist bs.
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Like most partisan hacks, you have resorted to blatant falsehoods and charges against the opponent rather than arguments against his points. Not one bit cogent thought, just more recycled partisan hackmanship.

The final point is, our boys/girls in Afghanistan are innocent of the charges Al Jeezeera and their leftists allies assert.
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What leftist allies?

Plain and simple, you people need to get to hell over that instead of sh*tting on them every chance you people get.
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No one here has "****" on the troops. No one here doesn't support the troops. Take that stupid ass, tired, droll, and boorish bull**** right back where you got it from because no one here buys into the hysterics.

My final thoughts on the matter. Now you may babble on.
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Promise? You promise that's the last of your inane crap we'll have to hear on the topic?
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

GySgt said:
And that brings up another point of interest.

With Al-Jazeera seeking to make a story around a Bible that was "maybe" passed out as if it was an American or U.S. military agenda to convert the Muslim masses to Christianity, stories about the Qu'ran being handed out to Muslim prisoners with prayer time are absent.

I find it ironic how we are supposed to be the modern day crusaders in the Middle East, yet pass out the Qu'ran to Islamic prisoners. Of course, a story about how we truly treat Muslims who are incarcerated are covered up with stories of brutal torture and starvation protests and frat party behaviors by National Guardsmen. And as I stated in the post before this, it is the Westerner who points and exaggerates the issues that validates their dramatic portrayals of America.

Al-Jazeera can write all the stories they wish about Pokeman, Santa Clause, or the Great Satan. But the moment the West involves itself in pathetic self-flagilations and criticisms for the sake of understanding our enemy's feelings, we validate their BS.
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The video is very real. Are you saying that we shouldn't investigate wrong doing and misconduct in our military? Interesting.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Jerry said:
Hmm...ok...they strap on explosives and blow up school busses full of children, behead prisoners and stone rape victims......we offer free bibles.....wow we're really extreme.
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So it is the job of the U.S. military to hand out bibles?
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

DamnYankee said:
Prove it!

You are making some very broad assumptions that Al Jeezer, or whatever, is right! What if they are wrong! What if, just IF, they are completely full of crap!

What IF giving a bible IS NOT preaching, as much as the leftists want it to be! What IF it is actually giving a gift?

Why do you people automatically ASSUME the US military are the bad guys AND NOT the good guys?
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Show me where it is the job of the military to hand out bibles to people in Afghanistan that DON'T request it.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

GySgt said:
What crime? What Code of Conduct or Court Martiable offense took place?

You people are running off at the mouth over a non-story.
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Again Show me where it is the job of the military to hand out bibles to people that don't request one from a chaplain?

EDIT: I am not going to say it is a crime, but I don't think it is the job of the military to be "spreading Christianity". Do you? Do you think it is ok for the U.S. military to endorse one religion and spread it?
 
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Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

TheNextEra said:
Again Show me where it is the job of the military to hand out bibles to people that don't request one from a chaplain?

EDIT: I am not going to say it is a crime, but I don't think it is the job of the military to be "spreading Christianity". Do you? Do you think it is ok for the U.S. military to endorse one religion and spread it?
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If you read all his posts in this thread you'd have your answers.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

talloulou said:
If you read all his posts in this thread you'd have your answers.
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Well since you feel the need to chime in , care to show me those points or just increase your post count and act like a snotty ass?
 
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Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

TheNextEra said:
Well since you feel the need to chime in , care to show me those points or just increase your post count and act like a snotty ass?
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Post 260 summarizes it quite well.


There is however an order, which is passed down from very high and is briefed for every single cultural mingling, that specifies the rules and demands of the host nation. What applies in Somalia does not mirror what applies in Saudi Arabia, which does not mirror what applies in Afghanistan. Therefore, not handing out porn or "Bibles" is a matter of military policy not record. But breaking such policies means that you have broken that order that comes from very high and thusly can be prosecuted under the Uniformed Code of Military Justice.
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Then I ask him point blank a bit later, "So basically you're differentiating between individuals breaking conduct orders vs. the military as a whole acting illegally..." and he agrees.

Nowhere does he suggest anything even remotely close to the notion that it is the military's job to hand out bibles or even that it is ok to for the military as a whole or individuals in the service to hand out bibles while on duty.

I think he's just arguing that it's a non-issue because it is NOT a military policy to do so and thus it's much ado about nothing.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

talloulou said:
Post 260 summarizes it quite well.




Then I ask him point blank a bit later, "So basically you're differentiating between individuals breaking conduct orders vs. the military as a whole acting illegally..." and he agrees.

Nowhere does he suggest anything even remotely close to the notion that it is the military's job to hand out bibles or even that it is ok to for the military as a whole or individuals in the service to hand out bibles while on duty.

I think he's just arguing that it's a non-issue because it is NOT a military policy to do so and thus it's much ado about nothing.
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Thank you, seriously, but your previous response was (IMO) pretty snotty and could have been REALLY cleared up with this.

I don't claim I didn't make a mistake in not reading it, but I only responded to your comment in kind. Had you presented this, it would have been much more civilized.

Again thank you for providing this and clearing up my mistake on Gy's intent.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

TheNextEra said:
Well since you feel the need to chime in , care to show me those points or just increase your post count and act like a snotty ass?
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Aww hell naw, you done up and did it.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

jallman said:
Aww hell naw, you done up and did it.
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Not really, I made a mistake and Talloulou's post showed it and I accept my mistake.
 
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