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Religious tend to support torture more often

Slippery Slope said:
Now prove that Stalin killed in the name of Atheism rather than in the name of gaining power.
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Since atheism is the absence-of, anything that lacks a religious declaration is atheist.

You could only do something "in the name of" atheism if you were in fact anti-theistic, which as you know isn't atheism at all.
 
WillRockwell said:
The right to privacy in not having your phone calls and emails recorded by the government
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Once again this has not occurred. Where is the Government listening in on your phone calls or reading your e-mails? Got paranoia?


WillRockwell said:
The right to legal defense if you are somehow unlucky enough to be labeled an enemy combatant
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Give me ONE case where a US citizen has been denied their constitutional rights to a legal defense.

WillRockwell said:
That's two....there are many more...especially concerning the expectation of soldiers regarding the time of their service
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That's two outright falsehoods in a desperate attempt to support the Liberal paranoid argument that Bush is destroying your civil liberties. But alas, a farcical assertion that cannot be supported by a fact doesn't make you credible.

The simple fact that you believe that terrorists captured in Afghanistan or Iraq should be given constitutional rights or are party to the Geneva Conventions suggests that you are seriously uninformed about BOTH or, perhaps you ignore FACTUAL arguments to support your hyper partisan political points of view.
 
Jerry said:
All one has to do is simply neglect to declare their actions in the name of a deity and *poof* it's atheist.
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It may be an action completely devoid of theism, but it was not done in the NAME of atheism. Stalin never declared that he murdered people because he was an atheist.
 
Jerry said:
Did Stalin believe he was literaly a god?
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I wouldn't be surprised if he did think that.;)

However that really was not the point. Stalin did not kill millions out of an ideology other than to hold onto his power.
 
winston53660 said:
I wouldn't be surprised if he did think that.;)

However that really was not the point. Stalin did not kill millions out of an ideology other than to hold onto his power.
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Which is EXACTLY what makes his actions atheist.
 
EgoffTib said:
Currently Obama. The Patriot Act was signed into action by who? ;)
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Bush, and I said I had no problem with it then and now, as long as it was not used on American citizens.


Obama was against the patriot act, no?
 
Truth Detector said:
Once again this has not occurred. Where is the Government listening in on your phone calls or reading your e-mails? Got paranoia?




Give me ONE case where a US citizen has been denied their constitutional rights to a legal defense.



That's two outright falsehoods in a desperate attempt to support the Liberal paranoid argument that Bush is destroying your civil liberties. But alas, a farcical assertion that cannot be supported by a fact doesn't make you credible.

The simple fact that you believe that terrorists captured in Afghanistan or Iraq should be given constitutional rights or are party to the Geneva Conventions suggests that you are seriously uninformed about BOTH or, perhaps you ignore FACTUAL arguments to support your hyper partisan political points of view.
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How do you think Eliot Spitzer was caught pants down? Patriot Act. The Patriot Act allows the government to listen in on phone calls, e-mails, and several other channels of communication as well as allowing agents to write their own warrants. That kind of destroys the purpose of a warrant, no?

Right to privacy is infringed upon everyday.

I think terrorists caught in Iraq and Afghanistan should be brought to justice without reverting to animalistic techniques. America has somehow survived for more than 2 centuries and against countless enemies without using these methods, why do we need to start now? And I am very conservative on foreign policy, just not on the issue of torture.... It is counterproductive to the War on Terror
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Bush, and I said I had no problem with it then and now, as long as it was not used on American citizens.


Obama was against the patriot act, no?
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I have no idea what Obama's stance is on the Patriot Act. It would appear he cannot have that much of a problem with it, since it remains in effect and is being abused under his watch.
 
EgoffTib said:
It may be an action completely devoid of theism, but it was not done in the NAME of atheism. Stalin never declared that he murdered people because he was an atheist.
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The notion that there is a difference between someone "devoid of theism" and an atheist is hysterical dude.

It doesn't even occur to you they are one and the same does it? :rofl

Acts of an atheist; excuse me, a person "devoid" of theism: :rofl

Religion
Main article: Religion in the Soviet Union
Stalin's role in the fortunes of the Russian Orthodox Church is complex. Continuous persecution in the 1930s resulted in its near-extinction: by 1939, active parishes numbered in the low hundreds (down from 54,000 in 1917), many churches had been leveled, and tens of thousands of priests, monks and nuns were persecuted and killed. Over 100,000 were shot during the purges of 1937–1938.[69] During World War II, the Church was allowed a revival as a patriotic organization, after the NKVD had recruited the new metropolitan, the first after the revolution, as a secret agent. Thousands of parishes were reactivated until a further round of suppression in Khrushchev's time. The Russian Orthodox Church Synod's recognition of the Soviet government and of Stalin personally led to a schism with the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia.

Just days before Stalin's death, certain religious sects were outlawed and persecuted. Many religions popular in the ethnic regions of the Soviet Union including the Roman Catholic Church, Uniats, Baptists, Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, etc. underwent ordeals similar to the Orthodox churches in other parts: thousands of monks were persecuted, and hundreds of churches, synagogues, mosques, temples, sacred monuments, monasteries and other religious buildings were razed.

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin]Joseph Stalin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

State atheism

State atheism is the official rejection of religion in all forms by a government in favor of atheism. As a strict rule, only Marxist governments have ever sought to promote atheism as a public norm, and as a rule in accordance with the doctrine of dialectical materialism.[1] State atheism has been implemented in communist countries, such as the former Soviet Union,[2] China, Communist Albania, Communist Afghanistan, North Korea and Communist Mongolia under communist rule also promoted state atheism and attempted to suppress religion.[3][4] State atheism in these countries may include active opposition to religion, and persecution of religious institutions, leaders and believers. The Soviet Union had a long history of state atheism,[5] in which social success largely required individuals to proclaim atheism and stay away from churches; this attitude was especially militant under Stalin.[6][7][8] The Soviet Union attempted to impose atheism over wide areas of its influence, including places like central Asia.[9] The Socialist People's Republic of Albania under Enver Hoxha went so far as to officially ban the practice of every religion.

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism]State atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
 
Truth Detector said:
The notion that there is a difference between someone "devoid of theism" and an atheist is hysterical dude.

It doesn't even occur to you they are one and the same does it? :rofl

Acts of an atheist; excuse me, a person "devoid" of theism: :rofl
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I'm sorry that you failed to grasp my post. I said an action devoid of theism, not an individual. Thanks for the laugh, though.
 
Tubub said:
How do you think Eliot Spitzer was caught pants down? Patriot Act. The Patriot Act allows the government to listen in on phone calls, e-mails, and several other channels of communication as well as allowing agents to write their own warrants. That kind of destroys the purpose of a warrant, no?
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Obviously you are clueless about what the Patriot Act contains asserting that Spitzer’s illegal use of State Police to spy on political opponents is somehow proper use of the patriot Act.

Here's the entire act; read it and become informed. It is not applicable for any communications within the US between citizens.

USA PATRIOT Act (H.R. 3162)

It cannot be applied against any US citizen without a proper warrant and it cannot be enforced unless there is an obvious connection with terrorist organizations operating OUTSIDE of the US.

Tubub said:
Right to privacy is infringed upon everyday.
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Do you believe that someone plotting terror against US citizens has a right to privacy?

Tubub said:
I think terrorists caught in Iraq and Afghanistan should be brought to justice without reverting to animalistic techniques.
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Nothing but Hyperbolic nonsense here. It is obvious you are allowing your hyper partisanship and emotions here rather than engaging your brains.

Tubub said:
America has somehow survived for more than 2 centuries and against countless enemies without using these methods, why do we need to start now?
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Once again this is begging a point and the question; what methods?

You mean that of taking non-uniformed terrorists trying to murder our troops into captivity in prisons like Gitmo because NORMAL rule of law doesn't apply to them?

Do you honestly believe that terrorists caught in foreign lands in battles fighting with our troops can be prosecuted using normal criminal law proceedings and evidentiary rules? What evidence do you think is available to prosecute them as common criminals?

What is obvious from the naive mentality of those making such naive and engaging in such emotional hysterics is that they truly have no comprehension of what we are dealing with here.

Government: "Well your honor, we caught this guy with an AK47 in the battle of Faluja. "

His honor: "is there any evidence that he used the rifle to kill US troops?"

Government: "No your honor. He was captured in the heat of battle but we cannot attribute any particular death to him."

His honor: "Not guilty for lack of evidence. NEXT case!"

Once more it begs the question; where beyond the typical emotional hysterics of the Liberals is there any credible evidence that ANYONE has had their rights removed or suppressed by this act?

The answer is as obvious as the nose on your face; NONE! :2wave:
 
EgoffTib said:
I'm sorry that you failed to grasp my post. I said an action devoid of theism, not an individual. Thanks for the laugh, though.
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The only thing laughable here is yours, and others, desperate hysterics suggesting that Stalin was not an atheist and his purge of religion and destruction of churches was just the act of someone devoid of theism and not an atheist; which of course are one and the same. :rofl
 
Truth Detector said:
The notion that there is a difference between someone "devoid of theism" and an atheist is hysterical dude.

It doesn't even occur to you they are one and the same does it? :rofl

Acts of an atheist; excuse me, a person "devoid" of theism: :rofl

Religion
Main article: Religion in the Soviet Union
Stalin's role in the fortunes of the Russian Orthodox Church is complex. Continuous persecution in the 1930s resulted in its near-extinction: by 1939, active parishes numbered in the low hundreds (down from 54,000 in 1917), many churches had been leveled, and tens of thousands of priests, monks and nuns were persecuted and killed. Over 100,000 were shot during the purges of 1937–1938.[69] During World War II, the Church was allowed a revival as a patriotic organization, after the NKVD had recruited the new metropolitan, the first after the revolution, as a secret agent. Thousands of parishes were reactivated until a further round of suppression in Khrushchev's time. The Russian Orthodox Church Synod's recognition of the Soviet government and of Stalin personally led to a schism with the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia.

Just days before Stalin's death, certain religious sects were outlawed and persecuted. Many religions popular in the ethnic regions of the Soviet Union including the Roman Catholic Church, Uniats, Baptists, Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, etc. underwent ordeals similar to the Orthodox churches in other parts: thousands of monks were persecuted, and hundreds of churches, synagogues, mosques, temples, sacred monuments, monasteries and other religious buildings were razed.

Joseph Stalin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

State atheism

State atheism is the official rejection of religion in all forms by a government in favor of atheism. As a strict rule, only Marxist governments have ever sought to promote atheism as a public norm, and as a rule in accordance with the doctrine of dialectical materialism.[1] State atheism has been implemented in communist countries, such as the former Soviet Union,[2] China, Communist Albania, Communist Afghanistan, North Korea and Communist Mongolia under communist rule also promoted state atheism and attempted to suppress religion.[3][4] State atheism in these countries may include active opposition to religion, and persecution of religious institutions, leaders and believers. The Soviet Union had a long history of state atheism,[5] in which social success largely required individuals to proclaim atheism and stay away from churches; this attitude was especially militant under Stalin.[6][7][8] The Soviet Union attempted to impose atheism over wide areas of its influence, including places like central Asia.[9] The Socialist People's Republic of Albania under Enver Hoxha went so far as to officially ban the practice of every religion.

State atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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It's called secularism, but please do keep on making yourself look like an :censored
 
Captain America said:
Nobody wants to listen when they are convinced they are right. I see no shortage of this coming from the liberal or conservative stances. But surely the conservative camp has no moral highground to blame the liberals for not wanting to listen. They are just as bad, if not worse.
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I do not mind them not listening. Either side.
They should be selling. Selling what they believe.
Critiquing the opposition.

That's healthy.

I want them to go out an honestly sell what they want to do.

Libs have difficulty with this, because their Eurosocialist schemes don't sell when put out in an open, honest manner.

.
 
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