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Chrysler to file for bankruptcy

Gibberish said:
I highly doubt that has any barring on the sales performance of a car. If you purchased an Audi, BMW, Lexus, or Aston Martin you wouldn't have any workable space under the hood either.

Pretty much any new car you can't do much to anyway unless you have the computer hookups to perform the chip upgrades and service updates.
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Crack open any Mitsubishi hood and compare it to an American car, you will see the difference.

My dad has a Durango and I checked out a Mitsu Outlander.

Similar powered engines big difference in work space.
I'm thinking that they have purposely designed their crap wagons so that you have to take it to a shop to get it worked on vs a shade treeing it.
Hoping you go to the dealer.

I'm not a big time car guy or mechanic but I can do a lot more than just basic crap to a car without touching the cpu.
 
Gibberish said:
Finally. Let them all fail. I don't want my tax dollars being spent to help companies will failing policies. I'd rather the US have no domestic based auto companies then government backed failing companies.
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We all have been saying that before Obama threw all that money at them. :2wave:
 
GottaHurt said:
The bond holders were the secondary story. Fiat has been holding out because the UAW wasn't making enough concessions.

The chief executive of Fiat, Sergio Marchionne, put pressure on trade unions at Chrysler on April 15, saying that the venture plan had only one chance in two of succeeding because progress had not been made in negotiations to cut pay.

IndustryWeek : Fiat Ready with 'Plan B' if Chrysler Deal Fails

I've said it time & time again, you cannot pay someone $75.00 an hour to screw 4 lug nuts on a wheel, and compete against foreign labor that is being paid $75.00 a week to do the same job.

This is the second time in less than 30 years we're bailing Chrysler out.
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With our freedom of speech, men will say some pretty outrageous things....but no one , but fools, are going to believe them..
I ,for one, wish to see a healthy American auto industry; not a Japanese industry...
We must learn from them..
 
earthworm said:
With our freedom of speech, men will say some pretty outrageous things....but no one , but fools, are going to believe them..
I ,for one, wish to see a healthy American auto industry; not a Japanese industry...
We must learn from them..
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Hate to tell you this but while all those "American" car companies are closing their plants in the U.S. foreign car companies are opening more and more in the U.S.

Particularly in the south. Kia, Volkswagon, Honda, Toyota, Suzuki etc.

They are the ones bringing sustainable jobs to us not GM, Ford, et all that are shipping jobs out of the U.S.

My loyalty goes to the ones who make the best product and the best price.
 
chevydriver1123 said:
Just got it via a CNN alert text message, when I get an article Ill post it. This should've happened long before but of course Obama wanted to see if he could be the savior of Chrysler. Guess I wont be getting that Jeep Liberty.
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Do the taxpayers get their money back now that Obama's self proclaimed effort to save the auto industry has failed?
 
I dunno.... Me want:


black-dodge-challenger.jpg
 
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Do the taxpayers get their money back now that Obama's self proclaimed effort to save the auto industry has failed?
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It didn't fail. This was their plan from the start. Me, in the link I provided earlier:

Also, I've just come across this Bloomberg article which states that most GM Bondholders don't think that swapping debt for equity is going to work, and that Chapter 11 is the most likely outcome. This basically confirms my previous suspicions that the obligations that GM and Chrysler were required to meet to prevent a government nationalization and a controlled bankruptcy were completely unrealistic, and that this entire process was designed so that the government could claim that there was no other option and prevent a large backlash due to this nationalization. This entire process was simply realpolitik.
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Truth Detector said:
Do the taxpayers get their money back now that Obama's self proclaimed effort to save the auto industry has failed?
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Chp 11 bankruptcy which is the only type of bankruptcy businesses can file is debt reorganization only.

If they are to go under they will say we are going out of business.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
No doubt its an awesome looking car but when you go out to buy a vehicle your supposed to look at reliability, among other factors.

Looking pretty comes last in my decision making when purchasing a vehicle.
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I just looked at a charger for the wife, they had pretty good reliability ratings IIRC....
 
PeteEU said:
Considering that the truth is more complicated to say the least, and in that truth the unions are hardly to blame for all or even a majority of the problems of the 2 car companies. That is of course not saying that they are without blame. The main reasons GM and Chrysler are in the pickle they are in, are pure and simple.. crap product and woeful strategy for decades and poor leadership. Out of this poor leadership came the union contracts that the right seem to blame for everything.

It is sad to see Chrysler go down, and will be even more sad to see GM, the pilar of the American industrial machine and the American dream go belly up, but lets face it.. it is all their own doing and blaming a 3rd party is a pathetic excuse.
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What irony seeing you claim you are the "truth" detector then read the bolded part of your facts. But alas, as is typical of many of your "truths" nothing could be further from the truth:

J.D. Power and Associates Reports:
Toyota Motor Corporation, General Motors Corporation Garner Most Awards in 2005 Initial Quality Study
HUMMER, Nissan and Scion Show Strong Improvement

Ford Motor Company captures two model awards, with the Ford Explorer Sport Trac (Midsize Pickup) and Ford F-150 LD (Full-Size Pickup) ranking highest in their respective segments.

General Motors Corporation sweeps the North/South America plant quality awards. General Motors’ Oshawa #2, Ontario, Canada, plant, which produces the Buick Century, Buick LaCrosse and Pontiac Grand Prix, earns the Gold Plant Quality Award. The Oshawa #1, Ontario, and Hamtramck, Mich., plants earn the Silver and Bronze Plant Quality awards, respectively.

General Motors earns five top model segment awards, including those for the Chevrolet Malibu/Malibu Maxx (Entry Midsize Car), Buick Century (Premium Midsize Car) and Chevrolet Suburban (Full-Size SUV).

GM India models Chevrolet Spark and Aveo U-VA bag quality awards

Two popular General Motors India models have bagged the top awards for quality for year 2008. The Chevrolet Spark and the Aveo U-VA have won the top awards for quality in the India Automotive Initial Quality Study announced by J.D Power Asia Pacific 2008.


While the Chevrolet Spark was ranked first and won the top award in the Compact Car Segment, with a score of 148 PP100, the Aveo U-VA won the award for the best car in the Premium Compact Segment, with a score of 102 PP100, in the face of equally stiff competition in the J.D Power Asia Pacific 2008.

JD Power Asia Pacific 2008 awards: Chevrolet Spark and Aveo U-VA win quality awards in India | DWS Auto India

J.D. Power and Associates | Studies and Awards | Initial Quality Study

On top of the many awards American Car Manufacturers have been awarded, they are also the largest companies garnering the highest volume of sales in the world.

Auto Sales - Markets Data Center - WSJ.com

I believe that your definition of "crap" is hardly supported by the data or the FACTS.

This comment deserves special attention however because it is quite hysterical:

"Out of this poor leadership came the union contracts that the right seem to blame for everything."

So are you now arguing that indeed the Union wage and benefits contracts negotiated by this BAD leadership (must be Neocons ::wink wink::) contributed as those evil "right wingers" claimed?

Carry on; I look forward to more of your desperate contortions attempting to divine the truth by impugning the evil "right wingers" at every possible chance. :rofl
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
No doubt its an awesome looking car but when you go out to buy a vehicle your supposed to look at reliability, among other factors.

Looking pretty comes last in my decision making when purchasing a vehicle.
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===============================

looking pretty comes LAST in decision making in cars?????

you havent met MsCaustic:shock:
 
earthworm said:
With our freedom of speech, men will say some pretty outrageous things....but no one , but fools, are going to believe them..
I ,for one, wish to see a healthy American auto industry; not a Japanese industry...
We must learn from them..
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I work in the auto industry in Michigan, for a tier 1 supplier. Some interesting things to note. Most parts we make for GM we ship to GM plants in Canada. Chrystler is about 50/50 to Canada. Toyota is 100 % shipped to Toyota plants in the US. People need to get over this notion of American auto makers and Japanese auto makers, Toyota is an important part of the US economy now, and has been for awhile. They are no longer the enemy.

It is also important to note that the Toyota parts we ship are held to significantly higher quality standards. As an example, paint standards that GM and Chrysler adhere to are much more lenient than Toyota paint standards.

Another thing, having done part sorts in both GM and Chrysler plants(we don't make anything for Ford), I will definatly say that UAW workers at those final assembly plants are a big part of why these companies are doing poorly. People who have held their job for 20 years, can make rate for the day in 2 hours, and refuse to go over rate. Considering the money these people make, to not do your best is just sad. The way they treat nonunion workers who come into these plants is also sad by the way.
 
Truth Detector said:
Do the taxpayers get their money back now that Obama's self proclaimed effort to save the auto industry has failed?
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No, we are paying another $8 billion so they can restructure.
 
danarhea said:
Some blame the unions. Some blame Bush. Some blame Obama.

I blame Chrysler itself. Why? Because, while other automakers were designing for the future, Chrysler continued to assume that the buying public still wanted big cars that could pass everything but a gas station.

Chrysler deserved what happened to them. A company that cannot keep up in the marketplace, and is unwilling to change with the times, deserves to go under.
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Chrysler: Outperforms Rivals

The big news at Chrysler LLC is the fact its sales weren't as bad as its chief Detroit rivals, down 44 percent overall versus the 48.4-percent drop for Ford and the 52.9-percent slide for GM.

He also said that without the drag of fleet-sale declines, Chrysler improved its share of retail U.S. sales from 9.6 percent in February 2008 to 11.1 percent last month.

Only the Jeep Wrangler (+28 percent) and Dodge Journey crossover (+522 percent compared with a launch month last February) posted positive sales. Nonetheless, even a few models with improved sales bested the performance of many automakers in February.

February Car Sales: Fearful Americans Hunker Down, Steer Clear of Dealer Showrooms - Auto Observer
 
Redress said:
I work in the auto industry in Michigan, for a tier 1 supplier. Some interesting things to note. Most parts we make for GM we ship to GM plants in Canada. Chrystler is about 50/50 to Canada. Toyota is 100 % shipped to Toyota plants in the US. People need to get over this notion of American auto makers and Japanese auto makers, Toyota is an important part of the US economy now, and has been for awhile. They are no longer the enemy.

It is also important to note that the Toyota parts we ship are held to significantly higher quality standards. As an example, paint standards that GM and Chrysler adhere to are much more lenient than Toyota paint standards.

Another thing, having done part sorts in both GM and Chrysler plants(we don't make anything for Ford), I will definatly say that UAW workers at those final assembly plants are a big part of why these companies are doing poorly. People who have held their job for 20 years, can make rate for the day in 2 hours, and refuse to go over rate. Considering the money these people make, to not do your best is just sad. The way they treat nonunion workers who come into these plants is also sad by the way.
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Good information and factual; Edward Deming (one of my heroes and a statistician) was rejected by US manufacturers when he talked about quality control techniques, but the Japanese embraced him.

On the discussion about Toyota as well as many other foreign auto makers manufacturing in the USA, where are these plants all located and what is the difference in wage rates between their rates and the rates paid by US makers?

The answer should all but dispel the notion that UAW wage and benefit rates are not a significant factor in their impact on profits.

But the problems being faced by US manufacturers mirror the problems of the entire industry; demand has dropped SIGNIFICANTLY and there are no signs of improvement even with all the deficit producing bills passed by this Administration.

By the way, the best selling Hybrid in the world, the Toyota Prius (I think they came with the Obama sticker on them in 2008), is yet to produce a profit for Toyota. Good thing their profits are not dependent on Prius sales eh?

There is a serious question as to whether Toyota can make money on the Prius. Is it expensive to make because of its complexity?

[MSNBC] Hybrids Hype? Does Toyota make money on the Prius? - Alternative Energy dot Com
 
Truth Detector said:
Chrysler: Outperforms Rivals

The big news at Chrysler LLC is the fact its sales weren't as bad as its chief Detroit rivals, down 44 percent overall versus the 48.4-percent drop for Ford and the 52.9-percent slide for GM.

He also said that without the drag of fleet-sale declines, Chrysler improved its share of retail U.S. sales from 9.6 percent in February 2008 to 11.1 percent last month.

Only the Jeep Wrangler (+28 percent) and Dodge Journey crossover (+522 percent compared with a launch month last February) posted positive sales. Nonetheless, even a few models with improved sales bested the performance of many automakers in February.

February Car Sales: Fearful Americans Hunker Down, Steer Clear of Dealer Showrooms - Auto Observer
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I have 2 points to make:

1) Chrysler increased its share from 9.6 to 11.1. Big deal. Not bad for one year, but Chrysler's problems were created over the course of decades. Back in the old days, Chrysler was one of the big 3. Chrysler did not change with the times, and neither did Ford nor GM. The result is the poor market share they have today, compared to what they had back them. Nissan and Toyota pushed gas mileage, and they won because of it.

2) I notice your link left out fleet sales, and there is a good reason for that. I will post from experience on that. One of our trucks just blew a head gasket. We are now in the process of purchasing a new vehicle for our own fleet. As an American Standard Customer Care Dealer, we get a special deal on fleet purchases. We have 2 ways to go. a) Ford, which offers an Econoline van that gets decent gas mileage. With our discount, we can purchase one new for about 12k. Add a bulkhead, storage racks, and a ladder rack, we end up paying about 16k. GAS MILEAGE NOT TOO BAD. b) Chrysler, which offers us a Dodge Ram pickup truck. It costs us just a little more, and no bulkhead or storage racks are needed. But its gas mileage is horrible. BAD GAS MILEAGE. Since our crews drive hundreds of miles per day running service calls, guess which vehicle we are going to purchase? The answer is a no-brainer. There is a reason for the drag on Chrysler's fleet sales numbers. Nobody who maintains a fleet of vehicles wants to purchase anything from Chrysler.
 
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Gibberish said:
You mean Bush?

Bush announces $17.4 billion auto bailout - David Rogers and Mike Allen - Politico.com
Bush OKs bailout for GM, Chrysler


Obama Denies Bailout Funds for U.S. Automakers, Sets Restructure Deadline - First 100 Days of Presidency - Politics FOXNews.com
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Sure yes bush, bush as well. Obama fully supported that money being thrown at it as well.



Now he is denying money because he is in a fight with the bond holders.



Its a mess. A mess both of these presidents are screwing or have screwed up royally.
 
danarhea said:
2) I notice your link left out fleet sales, and there is a good reason for that. I will post from experience on that. One of our trucks just blew a head gasket. We are now in the process of purchasing a new vehicle for our own fleet. As an American Standard Customer Care Dealer, we get a special deal on fleet purchases. We have 2 ways to go. a) Ford, which offers an Econoline van that gets decent gas mileage. With our discount, we can purchase one new for about 12k. Add a bulkhead, storage racks, and a ladder rack, we end up paying about 16k. GAS MILEAGE NOT TOO BAD. b) Chrysler, which offers us a Dodge Ram pickup truck. It costs us just a little more, and no bulkhead or storage racks are needed. But its gas mileage is horrible. BAD GAS MILEAGE. Since our crews drive hundreds of miles per day running service calls, guess which vehicle we are going to purchase? The answer is a no-brainer. There is a reason for the drag on Chrysler's fleet sales numbers. Nobody who maintains a fleet of vehicles wants to purchase anything from Chrysler.
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No I did not; had you read the source I quoted, it stated that fleet sales were a HUGE drag on profitability and a segment of the business Chrysler wants to get out of.

But the main point of emphasis from Chrysler vice chairman and president Jim Press was separating retail performance from fleet sales. The Detroit automakers have been increasingly fleeing unprofitable fleet sales (that used to maintain ambitious assembly-plant production quotas) as each has initiated drastic downsizing of their manufacturing operations.
 
EulyssElvisCaustic said:
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looking pretty comes LAST in decision making in cars?????

you havent met MsCaustic:shock:
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Sigh, that is how my wife operates as well.

I'm saying what about gas mileage, engine compartment size, maintenance costs etc.

She says I think I'll look good in this one..... :doh
 
Khayembii Communique said:
How are you shocked or surprised about this? This has been pretty much a sure thing ever since the government loaned them all that money with the restructuring obligations.

It should be noted that this is I believe Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protection and not Chapter 7. I discussed this here a week ago.

"It should be noted here that while Chrysler is pretty much for sure going to file Chapter 11, some are starting to predict that it will still ultimately end up filing Chapter 7, which would put a lot of people out of their jobs and be a large contributor to the second wave of the crisis that is about to commence in a few months."
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If it wasn't clear, "Color me shocked and surprised" was sarcasm.
 
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