I wouldn't support torture of soldiers captured in a war environment either. I don't care if the other side tortured. Just because our enemy does something doesn't mean we have to lower ourselves to their level.
What exact requirements need to be met to surrendered one's humanity? And do these requirements need to be proven or just suspected for said humanity to be surrendered? You trust the government to decide if you have or have not surrendered your humanity?
I'm not afraid of hurting them. I think it's beneath me as a human to cause someone excruciating pain to extract information they may or may not have and may or may not share. Especially if there are other options to either gaining the information or stopping what ever is planned.
Even if this person was only suspected or assumed of knowing something? How many knee caps would you break to get the information you need? What requirements would you need to know that the person who's kneecaps you are busting has any information that could help you? ten? twenty? hundred?
It's beneath you to save peoples lives?
You dodged the question sir. You would be fine knowing that X number of people of died even though you had it in your power to save them.
Generally, a ball peen hammer, some restraints and one blow to the knee is enough. Of course, that's more exaggeration then actual act, breaking knees tends to cause more problems then it solves. The POINT I was making, was I would do what it took to save peoples lives, where as you would let them die.
No. it's beneath me to harm someone suspected of being a terrorist when the information they provide may or may not save someone's life and there are other actions that can be taken to save said lives.
Does your question assume that the terrorist is indeed a terrorist and does, without a doubt, know the information I need to save your families life and that there are absolutely no other options available to save you and your families life?
The lack of torture didn't kill my family and may not have saved my family. The fact that the terrorist exists and , for what ever reason, has a grudge against my family and the lack of security of our country allowed my family to die. To continue your exaggerated hypotheticals I also wouldn't go back in time and kill the terrorist when he is a baby either.
I believe torture is a last and distant resort, not a SOP. There are many many other measures that come before torture and can provide much more accurate and long lasting security.
Here's is an implied presumption on your part that the govt did nothing else prior to waterboarding. They went straight to waterboarding knowing that all other methods of obtaining intelligence would not work. Please show me proof that waterboarding was SOP prior to using any other intelligence gathering method.
No I ignored it because embryos and the unborn qualifying for human rights is debatable and is an unneeded tangent to this discussion.
War is immoral and there are necessary evils that are accepted. I however choose to draw a line. It just so happens that my line when losing the "tug-a-war" between morality and immorality is more conservative then yours.
As I said, I would support torture of a PROVEN terrorist if a dire situation (no other options) was on hand that they had required information. I would not support torture if we SUSPECT an attack may come and that this terrorist MAY know something.
If that is the "truth" you are detecting then you need to re-read my posts.
Many of these decisions need to be made by people with a clear head and larger perspective to avoid purely emotional responses to the situation and not take int he longer term affects.
I always find it amusing when you offer rebuttals to non-existing arguments.
How can I believe in the morality of something that I believe to be immoral?
My morality of human beings is selective to human beings. To extend this to embryos and unborn I would have to accept them in my definition of "human beings". For my stance on this issue please see the Abortion threads or start one yourself and I will respond.