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Iranian leader: We'd support an Israeli-Palestianian peace agreement

Damm ol "I wanna jihad" Ahmadinejad has been throwing everyone for a loop lately. I kinda wanna see what his next trick will be.

The Raw Story | Iranian leader: We'd support an Israeli-Palestianian peace agreement

"Nobody should interfere," Ahmadinejad replied. "Allow the Palestinian people to decide for themselves, whatever they decide. It is the right of all human beings."

"But if they choose a two state solution, if they choose to recognize Israel's existence, Iran will as well? " Stephanopoulos pursued.

To that, Ahmadinejad replied, "Let me approach this from another perspective. If the Palestinians decide that the Zionist regime needs to leave all Palestinian lands, would the American administration accept their decision? Will they accept this Palestinian point of view?

Have to give him credit--he's a slippery one. However, note his choice of phrasing. He accords the Palestinians the right to decide, but says nothing of Israel, and when challenged on recognizing Israel's right to existence, shaped his response to evade the direct question and posit again advocacy of the Palestinian cause.

His response is disingenuous because he pretends neutrality and non-interfence, but does not voice a position that gives Israel equal right to determine the shape of a peace agreement. It is not just a question of what the Palestinians want and may decide, but of what Israelis want and may decide as well.

Translation: Ahmadinejad supports any Israeli-Palestinian peace agreement, so long as Israel ceases to exist in the process.
 
Damm ol "I wanna jihad" Ahmadinejad has been throwing everyone for a loop lately. I kinda wanna see what his next trick will be.

The Raw Story | Iranian leader: We'd support an Israeli-Palestianian peace agreement

Eh. Wait till the Mullahs release a statement. The figurehead status of the Iranian President, especially now after they gutted the presidency of real powers due to the last President's threat to their power more or less means what he say cannot be really taken as actual policy.
 
Of course he supports a peace agreement.
It creates Palestine.
That doesn't change anything about Israel or Jews. It just creates Palestine officially...
:2wave:
 
Same crap different day. They all use this trick and it only works on the weak minded. What is the likelyhood of any peace agreement between Palestinians and Israel? His promise to support what will not happen is empty, especially given that the Majlis rules Iran. This is much like Osama Bin Laden who proposes peace as soon as America completely leaves the Middle East and foresakes Israel. Such promises and oaths in the impossible merely ensure that the war will go on forever while convincing the weak masses that they made the attempt. I'll make a similar promise....

I promise to give 15 percent of all my paychecks for the rest of my life to the poor as soon as the moon explodes. No seriously...I promise. See what I did? I made it the moon's fault that I withhold my money. Now everyone can hate the moon. Just as long as everybody knows I tried.
 
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The problem though isn't just with Palestine, but Israel as well.

Bulldozing the house of a terrorist's family does NOTHING.

Imagine if in the U.S., a criminal's families house was bulldozed, how well do you think that would go to prevent crime? Not very much, it just turns an innocent person into a criminal.

Israel does not deserve the U.S. support anymore than Palestine does.

The U.S. should abandon Israel if it does not conform to human rights as well.
 
The problem though isn't just with Palestine, but Israel as well.

Bulldozing the house of a terrorist's family does NOTHING.

Imagine if in the U.S., a criminal's families house was bulldozed, how well do you think that would go to prevent crime? Not very much, it just turns an innocent person into a criminal.

Israel does not deserve the U.S. support anymore than Palestine does.

The U.S. should abandon Israel if it does not conform to human rights as well.

Well considering that in many cases the families of these suicide bombers razed them since birth to hate and murder Jews and advocated martyrdom as a high honor I say not only should their homes be bulldozered but they should be imprisoned as well.
 
Well considering that in many cases the families of these suicide bombers razed them since birth to hate and murder Jews and advocated martyrdom as a high honor I say not only should their homes be bulldozered but they should be imprisoned as well.

And your proof of that is what? There are many families in the U.S. that have taught their kids to hate Jews/blacks/rich/poor, etc, but do we bulldoze their houses down when their kids commit crimes?

Like I said, Israel does not deserve any support from the U.S. when they do that type of ****.

Glad you support it though, shows more about your character.
 
And your proof of that is what?

I have plenty of examples of the mothers of future suicide bombers standing proudly behind their sons in video clips as they discuss their intentions.

One doesn't become a suicide bomber on their own it takes years of brainwashing from the cradle, the families of these murderers are just as responsible for their crimes, they lit the fuse on their human bomb.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSt9w585e7I&feature=PlayList&p=9944EE0BF9E2567A&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=61"]YouTube - Muslim mother celebrates sons murder of 5 teens[/ame]
 
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Such promises and oaths in the impossible merely ensure that the war will go on forever while convincing the weak masses that they made the attempt.

Such as when Bush demanded nations capitulate to his demands as a precondition for negotiations?
 
The U.S. should abandon Israel if it does not conform to human rights as well.

Yet...continue to ignore the human rights record of Saudi Arabia for oil. And continue to ignore China's human rights record for sake of international business and trade. Perhaps we should have turned our backs on France when it publicly tortured hundreds of thousands of Africans in Algiers. Give it up. Israel's human rights record is as much in question as everyone else's. The freedoms extended to all citizens of Israel far outshines the oppression and abuse of Muslim govermments. But you wish their human rights record to reflect their contuinued retaliations towards a people who slaughter civilains on busses and in market squares. The freest nation in the Middle East, which affords Muslims the same rights as Jews, is hardly the exaggerated monster you make it out to be.

Your bias is gross.
 
Such as when Bush demanded nations capitulate to his demands as a precondition for negotiations?

.........Huh? No...not like that. And which nations? How did Bush get into this discussion anyway?

Bush dismissed Iran knowing that negotiations were pointless (like all Presidents before him). Obama took a different angle knowing that Iran will not budge. Obama's angle will merely prove Bush correct.
 
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.........Huh? No...not like that. And which nations? How did Bush get into this discussion anyway?

Iran, Cuba, North Korea, and Syria all come to mind. Bush got into this discussion because you posted this:
They all use this trick and it only works on the weak minded. What is the likelyhood of any peace agreement between Palestinians and Israel? His promise to support what will not happen is empty, especially given that the Majlis rules Iran. This is much like Osama Bin Laden who proposes peace as soon as America completely leaves the Middle East and foresakes Israel. Such promises and oaths in the impossible merely ensure that the war will go on forever while convincing the weak masses that they made the attempt.

...which is pretty much EXACTLY what people are doing who refuse to even talk to other nations until AFTER those nations do everything we want. It's not going to happen, the people making those demands KNOW it isn't going to happen, but it ensures that the conflict goes on forever while convincing the weak masses that they made the attempt.

GySgt said:
Bush dismissed Iran knowing that negotiations were pointless (like all Presidents before him).

Right...just like ALL presidents before him, he dismissed them out of hand. So how would he know it's pointless since no one has ever tried it before?

GySgt said:
Obama took a different angle knowing that Iran will not budge. Obama's angle will merely prove Bush correct.

An audience with the United States is not a prize to be won in exchange for capitulating to our demands. That's the whole POINT of diplomacy.
 
I have plenty of examples of the mothers of future suicide bombers standing proudly behind their sons in video clips as they discuss their intentions.

And how does that equate to all of them? Again you fail to show how bulldozing the houses of family members for the crimes of children solves the problem.
 
Yet...continue to ignore the human rights record of Saudi Arabia for oil. And continue to ignore China's human rights record for sake of international business and trade. Perhaps we should have turned our backs on France when it publicly tortured hundreds of thousands of Africans in Algiers. Give it up. Israel's human rights record is as much in question as everyone else's. The freedoms extended to all citizens of Israel far outshines the oppression and abuse of Muslim govermments. But you wish their human rights record to reflect their contuinued retaliations towards a people who slaughter civilains on busses and in market squares. The freest nation in the Middle East, which affords Muslims the same rights as Jews, is hardly the exaggerated monster you make it out to be.

Your bias is gross.

Sorry but unlike you I don't support ANY alliance with scum like you mentioned including Israel. The hypocrisy is that you support it.
 
Iran, Cuba, North Korea, and Syria all come to mind.

Oh...you mean nations that all former Presidents laregly ignored because of policies set for good reason. But this is yet another attempt to assign Bush to everything isn't it?


Bush got into this discussion because you posted this:


...which is pretty much EXACTLY what people are doing who refuse to even talk to other nations until AFTER those nations do everything we want. It's not going to happen, the people making those demands KNOW it isn't going to happen, but it ensures that the conflict goes on forever while convincing the weak masses that they made the attempt.

I stated nothing about Bush. And this is not exactly at all what I referred to. Iran could have ceased their nuclear garbage as the "world" asked. North Korea could have stopped their nuclear garbage (which it teased to do under Bush talks numerous times) like the "world" asked. And let's be honest. Bush got into this discussion because you can't let it go and seek to criticize Bush at every turn.

What I stated is associated to the apocalyptic and religious terrorist. The same mind that would throw a woman tied to a rock and thrown in a lake to see if she floats and thereby innocent of witch charges. In the end, the goal is to throw the woman in to the lake.

The IRA made earthly and practical demands. Al-Queda does not. Al-Queda demands the impossible and attempts to legitimize itself. Ahmenadejed just made a policy promise knowing that peace between Israel and Palestinians is impossible, especially with an Iranian funded Hezbollah antagonizing violence.


Right...just like ALL presidents before him, he dismissed them out of hand. So how would he know it's pointless since no one has ever tried it before?

Well, Obama is the first. Yet, the nuclear quest goes on doesn't it? Some things are obvious. And you didnt seek to assign criticism towards "ALL" presidents....just Bush.

An audience with the United States is not a prize to be won in exchange for capitulating to our demands. That's the whole POINT of diplomacy.

In this case, the point of diplomacy is to talk the time away until Iran is marching around nuclear weapons in Tehran like they do in North Korea and did in the Moscow. The UN and the EU has tried diplomacy for years and an Iranian progressed nuclear project proves it pointless.

When in doubt, talk yourself into a bigger problem I guess.
 
Demands like ceasing their attempts to acquire nuclear weapons? DAMN HIM!!!

I don't see what is unreasonable about demanding the handing back of land occupied due to an invasion as a precondition for negotiations.
 
Oh...you mean nations that all former Presidents laregly ignored because of policies set for good reason. But this is yet another attempt to assign Bush to everything isn't it?

Nope. The same can apply to Clinton, Bush Sr, Reagan, or Carter.

GySgt said:
I stated nothing about Bush. And this is not exactly at all what I referred to. Iran could have ceased their nuclear garbage as the "world" asked. North Korea could have stopped their nuclear garbage (which it teased to do under Bush talks numerous times) like the "world" asked.

Yes, theoretically they could. And the United States could theoretically withdraw from the entire Middle East, and Israel could theoretically allow all Palestinian refugees the right of return. But the people demanding those things, in ALL of those cases, know perfectly well that they aren't going to happen.

That kind of foreign policy is no better when it's practiced by US Presidents and hawkish pundits than when it's practiced by Ahmadinejad and Bin Laden.

GySgt said:
And let's be honest. Bush got into this discussion because you can't let it go and seek to criticize Bush at every turn.

You can replace the name Bush with Bill Clinton if you like. The point still stands.

GySgt said:
The IRA made earthly and practical demands. Al-Queda does not. Al-Queda demands the impossible and attempts to legitimize itself.

You are absolutely right, they make impossible, impractical demands. Which does not sound particularly different that what the US government does whenever it demands another nation abandon all its interests and do what the US wants before we'll even talk to them.

GySgt said:
Ahmenadejed just made a policy promise knowing that peace between Israel and Palestinians is impossible, especially with an Iranian funded Hezbollah antagonizing violence.

There are elements in Israel that desire peace. There are elements in Palestine that desire peace. The key is getting both of these elements into power at the same time. With Netanyahu in charge of Israel and Hamas controlling the Gaza Strip, that seems highly unlikely at the present time. If it's Tzipi Livni and Mahmoud Abbas, that would be much more possible. Just because it isn't going to happen tomorrow doesn't mean it will never happen.

GySgt said:
Well, Obama is the first. Yet, the nuclear quest goes on doesn't it? Some things are obvious.

Uhh well it's been all of, what, 100 days? The truth of the matter is that it's probably too late. The previous administration wasted so much precious time shunning Iran instead of negotiating with them that there is probably no way to stop them now, short of a full-scale invasion which isn't going to happen. The world will probably have to learn to live with a nuclear Iran.

GySgt said:
And you didnt seek to assign criticism towards "ALL" presidents....just Bush.

Fine, replace "Bush" with "Bill Clinton" in my previous post then.

GySgt said:
In this case, the point of diplomacy is to talk the time away until Iran is marching around nuclear weapons in Tehran like they do in North Korea and did in the Moscow.

And what did we accomplish by shunning them for the past eight years?

GySgt said:
The UN and the EU has tried diplomacy for years and an Iranian progressed nuclear project proves it pointless.

It certainly didn't help that the United States was not a part of those negotiations.

GySgt said:
When in doubt, talk yourself into a bigger problem I guess.

What exactly do you want to do about Iran? Shun them some more until they cry and give up their nukes?
 
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And how does that equate to all of them?

I didn't say "all of them" did I?

Again you fail to show how bulldozing the houses of family members for the crimes of children solves the problem.

The fact of the matter is that one does not wake up in the morning and say "I think I'm going to blow myself up today" it takes years of indoctrination to get to that point. Furthermore; if a wouldbe suicide bomber knows that his family will suffer for his crimes then maybe he'll think twice about it, it's a detterent as much as it is a punishment.

But you are right about one thing it will not solve the problem of Jihad, the short term regional solution for the Jihad over Israel is kicking the "Palestinians" the hell out of Israel and into Jordan where they belong. And the long term global solution is ending the fifteen hundred year Islamic Imperialist occupation from North Africa to Indonesia.
 
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I don't see what is unreasonable about demanding the handing back of land occupied due to an invasion as a precondition for negotiations.


Israel has never invaded any land without cause, yet has handed back land to achieve peace. Any land currently occupied by Israel is Israeli soil, earned fairly through conflicts begun against Israel by others.
 
Sorry but unlike you I don't support ANY alliance with scum like you mentioned including Israel. The hypocrisy is that you support it.

"Hypocracy?" Is this the word meant to strike anger and discomfort towards me? Pal, we are all hypocrits. Even the high and mighty such as yourself. You may voice your opposition towards the oppression and lack of civil rights in China, yet goods from China infest your home don't they? You may voice your opinion on the brutal oppression and down right attrocities in human ritghs inside Saudi Arabia, yet you make your generous contribution into your local gas station, don't you? I'm sure your do it in protest.

Hypocracy is a matter of reality in this world. Without it, we would be in a constant state of war. We would refuse business deals with tyrants and twisted regimes and in the process halt our own progress. We would constantly have to deal with the disruption of entire regions because we didn't have our thumbs in it. Kandahar likes the word "diplomacy." Well, diplomacy sweetens the tension between the West and the gutter. Diplomacy insists that we ignore and turn our backs on what we believe in to ease the pressures of the day. And in many cases, it merely stalls our responsibilities until the military man has a tougher job to deal with. So let's not pretend that some of us are above hypocracy simply because some of us have chosen to unfairly blast Israel for doing far less than those we ignore or turn our backs towards.

The only difference between you and me is that I'm man enough to acknowledge the reality of our hypocracy and am willing to accept the price of "diplomacy."

"Hypocracy." I love it when the pulpet preachers think themselves above the muck that delivers their comforts.
 
I don't see what is unreasonable about demanding the handing back of land occupied due to an invasion as a precondition for negotiations.

It's not unreasonable. However, considering that their angers and rage and willingness to launch campaigns against Israel started before this occupation, what exactly is it supposed to do? And considering the destructive rhetorics of Iran, Hezbollah, and Arab nations for decades, how will all be well after Israel gives back land captured during Arab aggression?
 
Nope. The same can apply to Clinton, Bush Sr, Reagan, or Carter.

YET...your criticism was specific towards Bush. You did not mention the other fellas that created this policy. You targetted Bush.

Yes, theoretically they could. And the United States could theoretically withdraw from the entire Middle East, and Israel could theoretically allow all Palestinian refugees the right of return. But the people demanding those things, in ALL of those cases, know perfectly well that they aren't going to happen.

Oh give me a break. You are being desperate to prove an invalid point. No...theoretoically, America can not give into such demands. The demands were not to see Israel give back some land. It was to stop supporting Israel. Is America supposed to start choosing its allies in accordance to the demands of others? When do we start not supporting the Kurds? I hear the Arabs hate the Shia. When do we **** on them? Algerian terrorists, who hate France for their colonial BS and blatant public torture of hundreds of thousands of people just decades ago may as well make demands upon America to stop supporting France. Surely, we can allow all of them to choose our friends for us. And completely leaving the Middle East invites hell on earth. During the Cold War, we had the dictator and economic sanctions. As soon as the Cold War ended the dictator began a campaign to disrupt "peace" in the Middle East. Now, we are stuck making them behave for everyone's sake. Even ridding them of their dictators will see them destroy each other over barbaric stone age tribal conflict.

These, among others, were demands impossible to meet. Somali pirates have a better chance of getting millions of dollars out of America before America could possibly even think about giving into Arab demands. The demands towards Iran and North Korea was about nuclear power and rocket launches. Something even the UN and the EU were actively engaged in. Our demands were and are not in the same category as those spewed out by those who's goal is destruction. Our demands are practical and are in keeping with global interests...not just our own. And our demands are meant to stay off destruction. Their demands gurantee it. There's your difference.


You can replace the name Bush with Bill Clinton if you like. The point still stands.

Yet....your chose to put Bush on blast. And in a few sentences you will go on to state "previous administration" and "last 8 years." Once again showing that Bush is your point, not decades of necessary foriegn policy.

You are absolutely right, they make impossible, impractical demands. Which does not sound particularly different that what the US government does whenever it demands another nation abandon all its interests and do what the US wants before we'll even talk to them.

The impractical demands by a terrorist organization vesus the practical demands of the world are no where in the same vicinity of being the same. And I know you seem to want to place Bush and America on blast, but your complaints are more about decades long policies and global demands.

This is not a world absent of enemies. We do not live in a warm, cozy environment where everyone's intentions are pure or even fair. America is the superpower and Russia is not because we saw the world for what it was and "fairness" is not a part of the equation. "What we want" is aleways in the world's best interests. You and others may complain that the immediate deals and diplomacies is about America's interests, but our interests have benefitted the world for over two centuries.

I could care less about the interests of nations, which won't even ultimately serve to benefit the world's prosperity but just their own oppressive agendas over others in their region.

Uhh well it's been all of, what, 100 days? The truth of the matter is that it's probably too late. The previous administration ......

And here it is again. Despite your attempts to re-define your criticisms towards not just Bush, Bush continues to be on your agenda to blame. In 100 days, North Korea launched a rocket. North Korea and Iran have been thorns for a very very long time. To suggest that "Bush" made everything too late, thereby setting Obama apart from every President before him with his hands tied is pointless....unless your point is to place Bush on blast.

It was too late the moment Iran chose to place their religion and destiny in the hands of a madman instead of the future. The ball has always been in their court.

Nations are like people. We all have natures about us. Iran's nature has always been to control the region. This is historical. Our nature is to control the world's path. To think one can change the nature of another simply by having a few good conversations is stupid. North Korea's nature is to disrupt the feeling of security in their region. Russia's nature is to pretend to power.

President after president has dealt with these issues over and over and all have come to same conclusions. Simply blaming the world's policies and natures on the one single President you lose sleep over does not reflect honesty upon the subject. And considering that they have insights and intels far beyond the FOX or CNN news channel, I would give them the benefit of the doubt. Even Obama has stipulated that we should talk with Iran.....but nuclear power is not acceptable. Talks after they comply or talks with the understanding that they are going to comply is very much the same thing. The only difference is that Europeans and weak Americans get to have their warm false feelings about America's openess to compromise on these matters. Illusion is for the weak.

Fine, replace "Bush" with "Bill Clinton" in my previous post then.

Replace "Bush" with "decades of policy" and you would have been accurate instead of merely head hunting.

And what did we accomplish by shunning them for the past eight years?

The same thing talking to them will. And didn't the UN and the EU talk to Iran? You mean to tell me that without America doing the talking that the UN and the EU are useless? Don't tell them that.

It certainly didn't help that the United States was not a part of those negotiations.

You mean "conducting" the negotiations. Screw that. The world wants their UN in charge and the EU fancies themselves better than the US. They spent 8 years proving incapable to the task. Let the UN take responsibilities for its failures for a change.

What exactly do you want to do about Iran? Shun them some more until they cry and give up their nukes?

Short of a bombing campaign and invasion there's nothing anybody can do to stop their quest. All this BS about talks, negotiations, and diplomoacy is fruitless effort. Ahmenadejed knows this. America knows this. The only ones that don't seem to know this are the UN, the EU, and the average earth citizen waiting to blame America for not talking or for not invading.

Some things are inevitable. Change from this current path will only come from within Iran and no one else.
 
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YET...your criticism was specific towards Bush. You did not mention the other fellas that created this policy. You targetted Bush.

I don't know why you keep focusing on that instead of addressing the actual point that was made. You're the one who keeps bringing up the fact that I mentioned Bush, not me. I mentioned him because he is the most recent example and because he is the worst example...not because he is the ONLY example. All presidents from Carter through Bush practiced this ridiculous policy of treating American diplomacy as a prize to be won by foreign countries in exchange for doing what we want, instead of treating American diplomacy as a means to GET what we want.

GySgt said:
Oh give me a break. You are being desperate to prove an invalid point. No...theoretoically, America can not give into such demands. The demands were not to see Israel give back some land. It was to stop supporting Israel. Is America supposed to start choosing its allies in accordance to the demands of others? When do we start not supporting the Kurds? I hear the Arabs hate the Shia. When do we **** on them? Algerian terrorists, who hate France for their colonial BS and blatant public torture of hundreds of thousands of people just decades ago may as well make demands upon America to stop supporting France. Surely, we can allow all of them to choose our friends for us. And completely leaving the Middle East invites hell on earth. During the Cold War, we had the dictator and economic sanctions. As soon as the Cold War ended the dictator began a campaign to disrupt "peace" in the Middle East. Now, we are stuck making them behave for everyone's sake. Even ridding them of their dictators will see them destroy each other over barbaric stone age tribal conflict.

These, among others, were demands impossible to meet. Somali pirates have a better chance of getting millions of dollars out of America before America could possibly even think about giving into Arab demands. The demands towards Iran and North Korea was about nuclear power and rocket launches. Something even the UN and the EU were actively engaged in. Our demands were and are not in the same category as those spewed out by those who's goal is destruction. Our demands are practical and are in keeping with global interests...not just our own. And our demands are meant to stay off destruction. Their demands gurantee it. There's your difference.

You're equivocating here on the meaning of "practical." No, the demands of previous US administrations that Iran unconditionally give up its entire nuclear program before we'll even talk to them are NOT practical, because the people making the demands know perfectly well that the other party will never comply. Just like the demands of Al-Qaeda that the United States withdraw from every Muslim country are NOT practical, for the same reason.

US presidents knew perfectly well that Iran wasn't about to capitulate just for the privilege of being graced by our magnificent American presence. Yet they made that a precondition for negotiation anyway.

That isn't how negotiations work...Let's say you're going to buy a car, so you go to the dealership. The dealer names his price, you make an offer, he makes a counter-offer, until you have an agreement (or until you're at an impasse). You don't walk into the dealership and tell the dealer "I refuse to even talk to you until you give me a free car."

GySgt said:
Yet....your chose to put Bush on blast. And in a few sentences you will go on to state "previous administration" and "last 8 years." Once again showing that Bush is your point, not decades of necessary foriegn policy.

Once again, you are the one who keeps dwelling on this, not me.

GySgt said:
The impractical demands by a terrorist organization vesus the practical demands of the world are no where in the same vicinity of being the same. And I know you seem to want to place Bush and America on blast, but your complaints are more about decades long policies and global demands.

I never said that they weren't.

GySgt said:
This is not a world absent of enemies. We do not live in a warm, cozy environment where everyone's intentions are pure or even fair. America is the superpower and Russia is not because we saw the world for what it was and "fairness" is not a part of the equation. "What we want" is aleways in the world's best interests. You and others may complain that the immediate deals and diplomacies is about America's interests, but our interests have benefitted the world for over two centuries.

Straw man. I never said that American interests don't benefit the world. I said that refusing to even talk to other nations is not in America's interest.

GySgt said:
I could care less about the interests of nations, which won't even ultimately serve to benefit the world's prosperity but just their own oppressive agendas over others in their region.

And this is exactly the problem. You expect other nations to recognize American interests, but you refuse to recognize that THEY have interests of their own. Are Russian, Chinese, and Iranian interests automatically non-negotiable? If so, then the United States will isolate itself and get no cooperation at all from those nations.

GySgt said:
And here it is again. Despite your attempts to re-define your criticisms towards not just Bush, Bush continues to be on your agenda to blame. In 100 days, North Korea launched a rocket. North Korea and Iran have been thorns for a very very long time. To suggest that "Bush" made everything too late, thereby setting Obama apart from every President before him with his hands tied is pointless....unless your point is to place Bush on blast.

Again, you are the one dwelling on the fact that I mentioned Bush...not I.

GySgt said:
It was too late the moment Iran chose to place their religion and destiny in the hands of a madman instead of the future. The ball has always been in their court.

Ahmadinejad has absolutely no control over whether or not Iran develops nukes, and he will have absolutely no control over when, where, and why they are used.

GySgt said:
Nations are like people. We all have natures about us. Iran's nature has always been to control the region. This is historical. Our nature is to control the world's path. To think one can change the nature of another simply by having a few good conversations is stupid. North Korea's nature is to disrupt the feeling of security in their region. Russia's nature is to pretend to power.

Who said anything about changing the nature of another nation? Iran could be a useful ally some day...if we would talk to them. Talks with North Korea are not likely to prove useful, but they're certainly better than not even trying and instead doing nothing. Talks with Russia can be (and are) extremely useful, given the multitude of issues on which the US and Russia can cooperate or compromise.

GySgt said:
President after president has dealt with these issues over and over and all have come to same conclusions. Simply blaming the world's policies and natures on the one single President you lose sleep over does not reflect honesty upon the subject. And considering that they have insights and intels far beyond the FOX or CNN news channel, I would give them the benefit of the doubt. Even Obama has stipulated that we should talk with Iran.....but nuclear power is not acceptable.

Well he has to say that. He isn't going to come out and publicly state "It's OK if Iran gets nukes" before they actually do. Nevertheless I'm sure he acknowledges (as you seem to have done) that the world will have to learn to live with a nuclear Iran.

GySgt said:
Talks after they comply or talks with the understanding that they are going to comply is very much the same thing. The only difference is that Europeans and weak Americans get to have their warm false feelings about America's openess to compromise on these matters. Illusion is for the weak.

"Talks after they comply" doesn't even make sense. Look at this from an Iranian diplomat's perspective: What is so wonderful about us talking with the United States anyway? Why should we give up ANYTHING for this "privilege"...let alone our entire nuclear program? For that matter, do we even WANT to talk to the United States since anti-Americanism has become a part of our reason for being in power?

GySgt said:
The same thing talking to them will. And didn't the UN and the EU talk to Iran? You mean to tell me that without America doing the talking that the UN and the EU are useless? Don't tell them that.

It certainly doesn't help if the United States is not present at the negotiations.

GySgt said:
You mean "conducting" the negotiations. Screw that. The world wants their UN in charge and the EU fancies themselves better than the US. They spent 8 years proving incapable to the task. Let the UN take responsibilities for its failures for a change.

That's funny, I thought this was about pursuing American interests, rather than assessing blame.

GySgt said:
Short of a bombing campaign and invasion there's nothing anybody can do to stop their quest. All this BS about talks, negotiations, and diplomoacy is fruitless effort. Ahmenadejed knows this. America knows this. The only ones that don't seem to know this are the UN, the EU, and the average earth citizen waiting to blame America for not talking or for not invading.

Some things are inevitable. Change from this current path will only come from within Iran and no one else.

I agree. At this point, an Iranian nuke seems to be inevitable. The world will have to learn to live with it. Therefore, why not reach out to Iran so that we aren't bitter enemies when they do become a nuclear power? The animosity won't disappear overnight, but eventually it will. Just look at how much better Sino-American relations are now than they were in the 1970s...and it might've not happened at all if Nixon hadn't gone to China and talked with Mao.
 
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