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Pelosi briefed on waterboarding in '02 [UPDATED]

celticlord said:
What I know is that Congress abdicated its Constitutional duties, either out of deference to the Commander-In-Chief or out of simple cowardice.

If Bush was running the White House inappropriately, the duty fell upon the Congress to apply appropriate correction.

That no such correction was applied means that Congress gave tacit approval (whether appropriate to give or no) to Bush's command decisions in the Oval Office. For Congress to now revisit those decisions and impute criminality to them is a level of hypocrisy rare even for Democrats.
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Try as I might, I have to say I totally agree with all but, that last partisan shot. And I'll give you that one. ;)

Congress gave Bush a blank check with Iraq and it was downhill from there.

I have reason to believe Obama is going to lance that Bush boil and restore honor to our country and reputation. I know you don't believe that but, maybe you can give him a little rope. If he uses that rope to hang himself... so be it.
 
ADK_Forever said:
Try as I might, I have to say I totally agree with all but, that last partisan shot. And I'll give you that one. ;)

Congress gave Bush a blank check with Iraq and it was downhill from there.

I have reason to believe Obama is going to lance that Bush boil and restore honor to our country and reputation. I know you don't believe that but, maybe you can give him a little rope. If he uses that rope to hang himself... so be it.
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What you fail to grasp is that Congress, by its tacit approval, established complete legality for all that liberals would now criminalize.

These issues are not crimes, for the very simple and unalterable reason that Congress failed to declare them as such when they had clear opportunity to do so. To criminalize now would be to create law ex post facto, which the Congress is categorically not permitted to do.
 
celticlord said:
What you fail to grasp is that Congress, by its tacit approval, established complete legality for all that liberals would now criminalize.

These issues are not crimes, for the very simple and unalterable reason that Congress failed to declare them as such when they had clear opportunity to do so. To criminalize now would be to create law ex post facto, which the Congress is categorically not permitted to do.
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Not sure what you're referring to as "these issues". If it's the torture thing, it most certainly is a crime. That is what is causing all the outrage and that is what will be the reasons for the investigations that will be conducted.

I don't believe they gave tacit approval because I don't think Bush kept them in the loop as much as people think. He kept much from Congress all during his term. He and Cheney had nothing but contempt for having to even communicate with Congress.

And if they did know everything going on, and it was illegal, by them doing nothing would not make those crimes not crimes. (A crime is a crime until it is legislated to not be a crime.) It would be cause to vote the whole of them to the curb, tho!

Good nite.
 
ADK_Forever said:
Did any of you neo-cons ever think about this? What if Pelosi, and that small group, were indeed given a walk thru and maybe even given those specifics that you hope she was given re: water boarding. There is a very good chance that all of that group was legally prevented from discussing, "with anyone", what they saw and what they were told.

While I am looking for intelligent responses, I look forward to being entertained by your twisted, right wing :spin: on this very possible scenario. :cool:
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Nothing would have stopped her or any of them from issuing a brief against it.
If she was "against", she could have recorded her opposition as Sen. Rockerfeller had in another instance; it was a CYA move on his part, but here is the problem for Pelosi had she done it...

...Having done that, issued a brief in opposition at that sensitive time, and not knowing the future, she would have stood against our efforts to extract information to protect America against another attack, and by issuing said brief... On the Record... had another attack occurred... she would have been political toast had THAT BRIEF come public.

All it would have taken was a brief, on the record.
She didn't issue one because she has no balls.

Now she's ****ed herself with her load mouth, and semantically sliced statements... and no brief stating her opposition.
Good.
I hope there are investigations and she is first to be grilled.

I said long ago... bring it on... their political witch hunt... because it is something sure to piss a whole lot of people off.

.
 
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ADK_Forever said:
Did any of you neo-cons ever think about this? What if Pelosi, and that small group, were indeed given a walk thru and maybe even given those specifics that you hope she was given re: water boarding. There is a very good chance that all of that group was legally prevented from discussing, "with anyone", what they saw and what they were told.

While I am looking for intelligent responses, I look forward to being entertained by your twisted, right wing :spin: on this very possible scenario. :cool:
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How can a Congressperson be legally kept from revealing something that they believe is illegal? That makes no sense.

What does make sense is that Pelosi was briefed on what was going on, knew what it meant, and said nothing because she was okay with it. Now it's become politically expedient for her to claim otherwise.
 
ADK_Forever said:
Not sure what you're referring to as "these issues". If it's the torture thing, it most certainly is a crime. That is what is causing all the outrage and that is what will be the reasons for the investigations that will be conducted.
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It was not a crime. Congress was told about it, Congress consented to it, thus it could not possibly be a crime.

The outrage is because Democrats seek to deny their own accountability and foist it all on others--i.e., the outrage is because Democrats are, once again, being Democrats.
 
celticlord said:
It was not a crime. Congress was told about it, Congress consented to it, thus it could not possibly be a crime.

The outrage is because Democrats seek to deny their own accountability and foist it all on others--i.e., the outrage is because Democrats are, once again, being Democrats.
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Your logic is not logical. Congress was not told about water boarding. And nothing is legal until a bill is passed by Congress and then signed by POTUS. That is how our laws are made and unmade. A crime, which torture has been for over 100 years, does not become legal until such legislation is passed. Do you not understand how that works?

Show me where Congress "consented" to water boarding. And what kind of word is "consenting" re: what Congress does. They pass bills or they do not pass bills but, they do not give "permission" or "consent".
 
ADK_Forever said:
Your logic is not logical. Congress was not told about water boarding. And nothing is legal until a bill is passed by Congress and then signed by POTUS. That is how our laws are made and unmade. A crime, which torture has been for over 100 years, does not become legal until such legislation is passed. Do you not understand how that works?

Show me where Congress "consented" to water boarding. And what kind of word is "consenting" re: what Congress does. They pass bills or they do not pass bills but, they do not give "permission" or "consent".
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You have that backwards. Everything is legal until there is a law that says otherwise. Kind of hard to prosecute someone for an action that isn't spelled out in the law.
 
Pelosi needs to be removed from office.
Otherwise the left as personified by ADK here will play the amnesiatic "never noticed" game and she will not only lie away but use her lies to create show trials.

How ridiculous to claim the Congress never knew. Its as blatantly absurd as Pelosi's lie.
 
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Moon said:
You have that backwards. Everything is legal until there is a law that says otherwise. Kind of hard to prosecute someone for an action that isn't spelled out in the law.
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No, you have it backwards! That is exactly what I said. Water boarding and torture is a crime, has been for over 100 years... until legalized. And that ain't happened!
 
Triad said:
How ridiculous to claim the Congress never knew. Its as blatantly absurd as Pelosi's lie.
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That just shows how much you don't know about what BushCo did and did not inform Congress on.
 
celticlord said:
If it was so secret, how do you know it happened?
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Let's put it this way. I've read a lot about what did and didn't happen during King George's reign. No matter what you loyal Bushies may think, he never had your best interests at heart.
 
ADK_Forever said:
Let's put it this way. I've read a lot about what did and didn't happen during King George's reign. No matter what you loyal Bushies may think, he never had your best interests at heart.
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Ok, if there's so much out there to be read, how is it that Congress didn't know? And if it was so blatant, why was Congress unwilling to do anything about it?
 
celticlord said:
Ok, if there's so much out there to be read, how is it that Congress didn't know? And if it was so blatant, why was Congress unwilling to do anything about it?
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You should work on your reading comprehension. Think on it.
 
ADK_Forever said:
You should work on your reading comprehension. Think on it.
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You should work on staying on topic, and not running around trying to insult your betters. Think on it.
 
ADK_Forever said:
You should work on your reading comprehension. Think on it.
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You should work on answering questions with substance.

If there's so much out there to be read, how is it that Congress didn't know?

If it was so blatant, why was Congress unwilling to do anything about it?
 
Triad said:
Pelosi needs to be removed from office.
Otherwise the left as personified by ADK here will play the amnesiatic "never noticed" game and she will not only lie away but use her lies to create show trials.

How ridiculous to claim the Congress never knew. Its as blatantly absurd as Pelosi's lie.
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Pelosi was not allowed to reveal what she was told, so how do you believe she could have acted to stop it? This was one of the tricks of the bush administration..."informing" members of Congress of questionable actions under the cover of national security.
 
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WillRockwell said:
Pelosi was not allowed to reveal what she was told, so how do you believe she could have acted to stop it? This was one of the tricks of the bush administration..."informing" members of Congress of questionable actions under the cover of national security.
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If she was opposed she could have written an official protest, which is really the only legally binding action she could take, as words of opposition in those meetings are hearsay unless recorded. To date no letter or minutes of said meeting(s) have exonerated Pelosi or anyone else on the Left.

She didn't voice opposition on the record, or write a letter of protest because the political calculation to do so back then equated suicide.

Now that the Left is back to their old tricks, and Pelosi sought to rewrite history, she got caught in a massive lie.

The Left should have known better; trying to criminalize politics is going to create a savage fight... and good. I hope they open this powder keg, it turns into a political slaughterhouse, with political blood and capital gushing down the steps of Capitol Hill.

You knew when she became Speaker, she'd be laying some huge and rotten eggs. This is a pretty fine and smelly specimen, and the President is holding the weighty, smelly beast.

I hope they have hearings and she must testify under oath.

My guess is she will look like BBQ's Chicken after they're done with her... and the D's, not the R's, will have a whole lot of 'splain'in to do... but the press will do as good a job as possible with damage control; there will be a sea of Susan Roesgen's out there defending their interests and attacking the Congressional equivalents of Joe the Plumber.

.
 
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zimmer said:
If she was opposed she could have written an official protest, which is really the only legally binding action she could take, as words of opposition in those meetings are hearsay unless recorded. To date no letter or minutes of said meeting(s) have exonerated Pelosi or anyone else on the Left.

She didn't voice opposition on the record, or write a letter of protest because the political calculation to do so back then equated suicide.

Now that the Left is back to their old tricks, and Pelosi sought to rewrite history, she got caught in a massive lie.

The Left should have known better; trying to criminalize politics is going to create a savage fight... and good. I hope they open this powder keg, it turns into a political slaughterhouse, with political blood and capital gushing down the steps of Capitol Hill.

You knew when she became Speaker, she'd be laying some huge and rotten eggs. This is a pretty fine and smelly specimen, and the President is holding the weighty, smelly beast.

I hope they have hearings and she must testify under oath.

My guess is she will look like BBQ's Chicken after they're done with her... and the D's, not the R's, will have a whole lot of 'splain'in to do... but the press will do as good a job as possible with damage control; there will be a sea of Susan Roesgen's out there defending their interests and attacking the Congressional equivalents of Joe the Plumber.

.
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you really are amusing, talking about the "left up to their old tricks" after the BS we have seen from the Republicans for the past 8 years. If you go to the dictionary and look up "hypocrite" you will see this picture

avatar6974_1.gif
 
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WillRockwell said:
you really are amusing, talking about the "left up to their old tricks" after the BS we have seen from the Republicans for the past 8 years. If you go to the dictionary and look up "hypocrite" you will see this picture

avatar6974_1.gif
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That is the funniest thing I've ever seen.... Ms Hypocrite calling someone else a hypocrite is just so rich. :rofl


.
 
TOJ said:
That is the funniest thing I've ever seen.... Ms Hypocrite calling someone else a hypocrite is just so rich. :rofl


.
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It is amusing....but so true to form. What could be more quaint than a hypocrite hypocritically calling someone else a hypocrite?
 
WillRockwell said:
you really are amusing, talking about the "left up to their old tricks" after the BS we have seen from the Republicans for the past 8 years. If you go to the dictionary and look up "hypocrite" you will see this picture

avatar6974_1.gif
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List for me what "we have seen from the Republicans for the past 8 years"?

Iraq? Signed on twice by Democrats.
Continually funded by Democrats.

Let's see the Hypocrites list on that one.
Oh Snap! Every damn Democrat that voted FOR the war except Lieberman cut-and-run.
Hypocrites.
Then they excommunicated Lieberman.

The Military?
Clinton said we could fight a 2-front war.
Then YOU folks say the military is too small and not uparmored.
Hypocrites wear a D again.

Fannie and Freddie.
McCain AND Bush wanted it overhauled.
Dems said it was A-OK and used their power to intimidate witnesses.
Whoops!

Patriot Act?
They sign on with smiles on their faces, and then?
They cut, run and attack it.
Who?
THE DEMOCRATS.

Please give me the list of what you think Bush did, and then we'll take a nice trip down memory lane.

In the words of that three time Purple Heart traitor...

Bring... it... oooon.

How do you beat such stellar candidate like Kerry if you were doing so much ill?

zimmer-albums-conservitoons-picture62-john-kerry-capitulation-room.jpg


.
 
zimmer said:
List for me what "we have seen from the Republicans for the past 8 years"?

Iraq? Signed on twice by Democrats.
Continually funded by Democrats.

Let's see the Hypocrites list on that one.
Oh Snap! Every damn Democrat that voted FOR the war except Lieberman cut-and-run.
Hypocrites.
Then they excommunicated Lieberman.

The Military?
Clinton said we could fight a 2-front war.
Then YOU folks say the military is too small and not uparmored.
Hypocrites wear a D again.

Fannie and Freddie.
McCain AND Bush wanted it overhauled.
Dems said it was A-OK and used their power to intimidate witnesses.
Whoops!

Patriot Act?
They sign on with smiles on their faces, and then?
They cut, run and attack it.
Who?
THE DEMOCRATS.

Please give me the list of what you think Bush did, and then we'll take a nice trip down memory lane.

In the words of that three time Purple Heart traitor...

Bring... it... oooon.

How do you beat such stellar candidate like Kerry if you were doing so much ill?

zimmer-albums-conservitoons-picture62-john-kerry-capitulation-room.jpg


.
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Zimmer; never confuse a hyper emotional, uber Liberal partisan, anti-Bush, anti-Conservative, quasi communist with the facts. It will only cause them to jump to the next hyper emotional false argument and then attempt to get you to wallow in an endless circle of stupidity where they continue to dance around the facts and then end up at the original false pretence/argument.
 
WillRockwell said:
Pelosi was not allowed to reveal what she was told, so how do you believe she could have acted to stop it? This was one of the tricks of the bush administration..."informing" members of Congress of questionable actions under the cover of national security.
Click to expand...

This is one of the funniest, and most outrageous, posts I've ever read on DP.

And that's saying a lot.
 
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