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CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attac

Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Bush's legal advisors, despite ample historical examples to the contrary, somehow got it into their thick skulls that waterboarding is not torture ....
Ummmmmm, no. Waterboarding, using the technique prescribed and used by the CIA, does not satisfy any of the definitions of torture that are binding on US Government agents when interrogating unlawful combatants detained in a foreign country.

The detainees were told before every waterboarding session that they would not be killed. This defeats the "imminent fear of death" and "severe mental anguish" elements that are absolutely essential in any torture accusation. And they were always careful to avoid physically injuring the detainees.

To make a long story short, waterboarding is not torture. It's very close. But as I've always said on my game show, "Close but no cigar."
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

.....It's illegal to order and carry out torture. .....Everyone who ordered torture, carried out torture, or were complacent in allowing torture, should face criminal charges. Everyone.

Once more putting such comments into perspective; these are merely OPINIONS which are not supported by the REALITIES or FACTS and when the dust settles and Obama refuses to prosecute these "presumed" criminals who are being tried in the court of "PUBLIC OPINION," will you then condemn the person you so desperately support and voted for with the same vehemence you attack his predecessors with?

The answer is an OBVIOUS no because this is merely selective hyper partisan outrage and feigned moral outrage reserved for those you politically disagree with.

When this country begins to turn its legal efforts into criminalizing politics, we will have certainly seen a new turn for the worse, again led by hyper partisan Democrats, in a dangerous new direction that is typically seen in Fascist, Third World Countries or Communist societies, not in Democracies concerned with the rule of law and political decency.

:2wave:
 
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Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

You're absolutely right, it's not illegal to recommend torture.

It most certainly is if you're a lawyer.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

I didn't check the whole thread, but not even Fox (or Drudge for that matter) is carrying this "news."

Furthermore, where is the actual interview or memo?

When neither Fox nor Drudge carry such allegedly important news, the authenticity of such a report seems extremely dubious.

Amusing. CNS is a subsidiary of the firm that started the Parents Television Council, the same group that accounted for over 99% of the FCC's indecency complaints. Tone at the top anyone? :2wave:

Excuse me while I wait for something more credible.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Obama released a 2005 memo which show the waterboarding garnered actionable intelligence in not only a planned attack against LA but also the capture of one of the other of the three waterboarded.

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed broke do to waterboarding and that breaking saved lives.

Former Vice President Cheney made clear there where results and had no problem whatsoever calling for the information of those results to be released cleanly.

Lefts desperate to retain their version of the story. If that requires dismissal of facts, defamation of any source they don't like..well that is not a problem. Proof?..just look around the various search engines for info on this subject and you will find numerous Far Left blog type sites spinning routines and googlebombing.

Obama stepped in a pile of doo doo trying to defame the CIA with his selective memo release. Ever since he was called out to provide the other half of the story nobody as seen the big earred twit.
 
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Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

The proof is in the pudding. Show me the ingredients.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Obama released a 2005 memo which show the waterboarding garnered actionable intelligence in not only a planned attack against LA but also the capture of one of the other of the three waterboarded.

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed broke do to waterboarding and that breaking saved lives.

Former Vice President Cheney made clear there where results and had no problem whatsoever calling for the information of those results to be released cleanly.
All you have are empty assertions with no proof. In fact, at least one of your assertions (waterboarding provided intel that disrputed the LA plot) is 100% false:

CIA official: no proof harsh techniques stopped terror attacks

"The CIA inspector general in 2004 found that there was no conclusive proof that waterboarding or other harsh interrogation techniques helped the Bush administration thwart any "specific imminent attacks," according to recently declassified Justice Department memos. The IG's report is among several indications that the Bush administration's use of abusive interrogation methods was less productive than some former administration officials have claimed. President Bush told a September 2006 news conference that one plot, to attack a Los Angeles office tower, was "derailed" in early 2002 — before the harsh CIA interrogation measures were approved, contrary to those who claim that waterboarding revealed it. Last December, FBI Director Robert Mueller told Vanity Fair magazine that he didn't believe that intelligence gleaned from abusive interrogation techniques had disrupted any attacks on America."

Maybe someday the pro-torture crowd will be able to support their assertions that torture leads to valuable intelligence. We've been waiting for a long time...funny how such an assertion is so hard to prove huh? Maybe there's a clue somewhere in that.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Think about this for one second. With all the leaks that Bush and Cheney and Rove leaked over the last 8 years, don't you think if they had any real proof that any attack was thwarted because of any torture that we would have heard about it a long time ago?

Why didn't they leak it to their favorite lying journalist, Robert Novak? He certainly wouldn't require any proof. He never has before.

Cheney claiming that he has two (2!) files in his desk that prove this, when he knows they don't, and they probably contain info that he knows is sensitive and that probably can't be de-classified, is disengenuous... at best.

And after 8 years.... only 2 examples? That should seal the case for torture. It's obviously undependable and didn't work. :2wave:
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Think about this for one second. With all the leaks that Bush and Cheney and Rove leaked over the last 8 years, don't you think if they had any real proof that any attack was thwarted because of any torture that we would have heard about it a long time ago?

Why didn't they leak it to their favorite lying journalist, Robert Novak? He certainly wouldn't require any proof. He never has before.

Cheney claiming that he has two (2!) files in his desk that prove this, when he knows they don't, and they probably contain info that he knows is sensitive and that probably can't be de-classified, is disengenuous... at best.

And after 8 years.... only 2 examples? That should seal the case for torture. It's obviously undependable and didn't work. :2wave:

Well someone with a logical brain would know the reasons they didn't leak any information regarding these efforts; they were more interested in protecting Americans and innocents than they were with petty partisan political efforts.

But seeing that you are on tack asking "logical" questions, here's one for you.

If the case for illegal use of torture is as clear as you so desperately attempt to illustrate, why then with a Democrat majority since 2006 and a current Democrat White House are NO efforts to impeach or try these OBVIOUS crimes been engaged into?

Why is it with such vast majorities that the Democrats have brought not one charge or shred of evidence of cause for criminal prosecutions been brought forth?

The answer is as OBVIOUS as the nose on your face; but it requires you to open your eyes to see it. One cannot see the truth when one closes their eyes so tightly to the TRUTH.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Well someone with a logical brain would know the reasons they didn't leak any information regarding these efforts; they were more interested in protecting Americans and innocents than they were with petty partisan political efforts.
Actually, I think a logical person would acknowledge that either scenario is plausible, and that they both require a lot of assumptions.

But seeing that you are on tack asking "logical" questions, here's one for you.

If the case for illegal use of torture is as clear as you so desperately attempt to illustrate, why then with a Democrat majority since 2006 and a current Democrat White House are NO efforts to impeach or try these OBVIOUS crimes been engaged into?

Why is it with such vast majorities that the Democrats have brought not one charge or shred of evidence of cause for criminal prosecutions been brought forth?
I think it's because the rabbit hole goes deep enough to put a few Dems behind bars too. It's why that spineless wench Pelosi said the impeachment of Bush was "off the table" from the beginning. Dems were complicit in the Iraq AUMF, they were complicit in the warrantless wiretapping program, and they were complicit in the systematic torture of enemy combatants. Many of them are just as guilty as anyone in the Bush admin, so of course they aren't really interested in doing anything except lip service.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

I think it's because the rabbit hole goes deep enough to put a few Dems behind bars too. It's why that spineless wench Pelosi said the impeachment of Bush was "off the table" from the beginning. Dems were complicit in the Iraq AUMF, they were complicit in the warrantless wiretapping program, and they were complicit in the systematic torture of enemy combatants. Many of them are just as guilty as anyone in the Bush admin, so of course they aren't really interested in doing anything except lip service.

There is more truth in the above statement than perhaps even you and I comprehend.

But it is good that you understand the basic REALITY about why this whole debate is a specious unwarranted partisan political witch-hunt NOT intended to reach for a higher morality than our enemies but possibly just another pathetic partisan attempt to prosecute good people in the court of public opinion for purely partisan political purposes.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Well someone with a logical brain would know the reasons they didn't leak any information regarding these efforts; they were more interested in protecting Americans and innocents than they were with petty partisan political efforts.

Oh ok. :roll: Do you think Cheney and Rove's leaks about Valerie Wilson put any lives in danger? I read somewhere that a contact of hers was found dead soon after she was outted. Coincidence? Or don't you care about their lives since those leaks served Cheney's agenda?

But seeing that you are on tack asking "logical" questions, here's one for you.

If the case for illegal use of torture is as clear as you so desperately attempt to illustrate, why then with a Democrat majority since 2006 and a current Democrat White House are NO efforts to impeach or try these OBVIOUS crimes been engaged into?

Why is it with such vast majorities that the Democrats have brought not one charge or shred of evidence of cause for criminal prosecutions been brought forth?

The answer is as OBVIOUS as the nose on your face; but it requires you to open your eyes to see it. One cannot see the truth when one closes their eyes so tightly to the TRUTH.

To this I'm sure we have different answers. The truth is twofold. While dubya was in office the Dems didn't have the votes (they needed Repub votes) to make any headway with these issues. And more and more info has come out now putting the picture in better focus as to just what that corrupt administration's actions were in regards to what they said they were doing and what they actually did.

I look forward to your twists on this. :mrgreen:
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Oh ok. :roll: Do you think Cheney and Rove's leaks about Valerie Wilson put any lives in danger? I read somewhere that a contact of hers was found dead soon after she was outted. Coincidence? Or don't you care about their lives since those leaks served Cheney's agenda?

What alternate planet do you live on? Where was there ever ANY evidence that the Plame affair had NOTHING to do with Cheney or Rove?

Again, perhaps you find it rational to fabricate your own reality to impugn those your politically disagree with, but I assure you there is nothing rational about your desperate antics.

To this I'm sure we have different answers. The truth is twofold. While dubya was in office the Dems didn't have the votes (they needed Repub votes) to make any headway with these issues. And more and more info has come out now putting the picture in better focus as to just what that corrupt administration's actions were in regards to what they said they were doing and what they actually did.

I look forward to your twists on this. :mrgreen:

The only one twisting desperately spewing lies happens to be you. The Democrats could have esily brought up impeachment charges regardless of their votes; they didn’t do it because they didn’t have sufficient evidence to bring up such specious politically charged claims.

All the fantastical diatribe, lies and fabrications in the world won’t change those very basic and simple FACTS.

I can hardly say I would look forward to more of your twists and distorted version of reality, but I am certain there are more to come.

Your irrational misplaced hate for Bush and Republicans aside, the least you could do is make some sense. :roll:
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Well I just googled it and apparently it's not even proven the Chinese ever used it. Mythbusters didn't think it had very untoward effects.

While it sounds horribly ominous it sounds pretty tame and lame.

I actually saw that mythbusters and their opinion on the matter doesn't seem to line up with how you are portraying it. They said it was DEFINITELY torture during the show, why do you think the girl when freaking crazy during it?
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Where was there ever ANY evidence that the Plame affair had NOTHING to do with Cheney or Rove?

I agree. The Plame affair was all about Cheney and Rove. :applaud

Again, perhaps you find it rational to fabricate your own reality to impugn those your politically disagree with, but I assure you there is nothing rational about your desperate antics.

I truly don't think you know what reality is. Libby testified that Cheney told him to leak those lies about Plame. It's been posted all over here. Just because you refuse to believe it doesn't mean it's not true. :doh

The Democrats could have easily brought up impeachment charges regardless of their votes

Neither party brings things up for a vote unless they're pretty sure they have the votes. Although I do agree with you that they should have brought him up for impeachment!

You love asking the same ignorant questions again and again and again, trying to piss someone off. And when someone finally tells you what you are, or where you can go, a mod comes along telling us that "we" broke some rule. Your type of posting should not be allowed here. I can't understand why you are allowed to get away with the baiting that you do. You're only looking for a fight. :beat
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Actually, I think a logical person would acknowledge that either scenario is plausible, and that they both require a lot of assumptions.
You left off, "and so I'm going to make some of those assumptions myself"

I think it's because the rabbit hole goes deep enough to put a few Dems behind bars too.<assumption It's why that spineless wench Pelosi said the impeachment of Bush was "off the table" from the beginning. <assumption Dems were complicit in the Iraq AUMF, <assumption they were complicit in the warrantless wiretapping program, <assumption and they were complicit in the systematic torture of enemy combatants. <assumption Many of them are just as guilty as anyone in the Bush admin, so of course they aren't really interested in doing anything except lip service.<assumption [/QUOTE]
Then we'll have a look at the praise for such assumptions.

There is more truth in the above statement than perhaps even you and I comprehend.

But it is good that you understand the basic REALITY about why this whole debate is a specious unwarranted partisan political witch-hunt NOT intended to reach for a higher morality than our enemies but possibly just another pathetic partisan attempt to prosecute good people in the court of public opinion for purely partisan political purposes.
Are you agreeing because there is truth there or because you agree with the assumption?

What alternate planet do you live on? Where was there ever ANY evidence that the Plame affair had NOTHING to do with Cheney or Rove?
Really? None? So according to you there is nothing even suspicious about that whole situation? You don't think mean Skooter was protecting Shooter? Nothing? There wasn't enough evidence to hammer some people... that doesn't mean there was NO evidence. There is definately a preponderance of evidence but as you well know, the guys at the top try to insulate themselves as best they can by inserting henchmen between them and the deed.

Again, perhaps you find it rational to fabricate your own reality to impugn those your politically disagree with, but I assure you there is nothing rational about your desperate antics.
But yet you're perfectly willing to agree with the assumptions made against democrat involvement... :roll:

The only one twisting desperately spewing lies happens to be you. The Democrats could have esily brought up impeachment charges regardless of their votes; they didn’t do it because they didn’t have sufficient evidence to bring up such specious politically charged claims.
I thought it was because they didn't want the political fallout from the cons wailing about how it's nothing but payback... I disagree with that position because a lot of damage has been done to this country in the last 8 years and they should be held responsible.

All the fantastical diatribe, lies and fabrications in the world won’t change those very basic and simple FACTS.
What facts? That the Dems haven't pursued multiple veins of legal action against the Shrub and his admin? Yup, but the reasons why not aren't as clear as you WANT them to be.

I can hardly say I would look forward to more of your twists and distorted version of reality, but I am certain there are more to come.
I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels the exact same way about you.

Your irrational misplaced hate for Bush and Republicans aside, the least you could do is make some sense. :roll:
Your irrational misplaced love for Bush and Republicans aside, the least you could do is make some sense. :roll:
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

I agree. The Plame affair was all about Cheney and Rove. :applaud

But the FACTS do not support your rabid uninformed hyper partisan views.

I truly don't think you know what reality is. Libby testified that Cheney told him to leak those lies about Plame. It's been posted all over here. Just because you refuse to believe it doesn't mean it's not true. :doh

What irony suggesting that I don't comprehend reality in a thread where your hyper partisan blather with blatantly FALSE assertions about the Plame Affair.

Neither party brings things up for a vote unless they're pretty sure they have the votes. Although I do agree with you that they should have brought him up for impeachment!

So in other words, railing and spewing nonsense about impeachment is only an attempt to bait and troll and impugn good people's character in the public arena?

You love asking the same ignorant questions again and again and again, trying to piss someone off. And when someone finally tells you what you are, or where you can go, a mod comes along telling us that "we" broke some rule.

THIS coming from you is truly the height of irony.

Here is what is REALLY happening whenever someone engages you and the likes of your pal Slippery; questions are asked for you to support with credible evidence the obvious hyper partisan lies and distortions you spew in this forum; then when confronted with the REALITY that you cannot support such uninformed rabid hyper partisan BS, you then engage in disingenuous arrogant condescending personal attacks.

But it doesn't stop here with your hypocrisy and irony; then you WHINE about getting infracted with the very rules you wish on your political opponents at DP.


Your type of posting should not be allowed here. I can't understand why you are allowed to get away with the baiting that you do. You're only looking for a fight. :beat

Good lord, coming from you this is beyond hypocrisy and irony, it is COMEDIC!

Thanks ADK, you can be really funny when you want to; and carry on.
:rofl
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Reading this pile of Liberal bile, one has to ask; say what? :rofl

Quote:Originally Posted by Truth Detector
There is more truth in the above statement than perhaps even you and I comprehend.

But it is good that you understand the basic REALITY about why this whole debate is a specious unwarranted partisan political witch-hunt NOT intended to reach for a higher morality than our enemies but possibly just another pathetic partisan attempt to prosecute good people in the court of public opinion for purely partisan political purposes.


Are you agreeing because there is truth there or because you agree with the assumption?

I am agreeing with it because there is TRUTH there and hardly an assumption.

Quote:Originally Posted by Truth Detector
What alternate planet do you live on? Where was there ever ANY evidence that the Plame affair had NOTHING to do with Cheney or Rove?


Really? None? So according to you there is nothing even suspicious about that whole situation? You don't think mean Skooter was protecting Shooter? Nothing? There wasn't enough evidence to hammer some people... that doesn't mean there was NO evidence. There is definately a preponderance of evidence but as you well know, the guys at the top try to insulate themselves as best they can by inserting henchmen between them and the deed.

Again, there is NOTHING there regardless of your desperate assertions and diabolical conspiracy theories; the case was investigated and over $50,000,000 spent. All this was intended to do is impugn political opponents for purely political purposes brought on by the actions of Joe and Valerie Plame themselves in their desperate hunger to be public whores for the Left.

I find it amusing that you continue to spew the lie that there was this preponderance of evidence in a vacuum of the FACTS and REALITY. The case was investigated and closed with the minor prosecution of Libby for lying under oath, an actor we know to not be the source of the leak in a case where the person KNOWN to have been the leak was not charged.

Quote:Originally Posted by Truth Detector
Again, perhaps you find it rational to fabricate your own reality to impugn those your politically disagree with, but I assure you there is nothing rational about your desperate antics.


But yet you're perfectly willing to agree with the assumptions made against democrat involvement... :roll:

Democrat involvement in what? Do you even have a coherent level of comprehension of what it is you are attempting to argue?

Quote:Originally Posted by Truth Detector
The only one twisting desperately spewing lies happens to be you. The Democrats could have esily brought up impeachment charges regardless of their votes; they didn’t do it because they didn’t have sufficient evidence to bring up such specious politically charged claims.


I thought it was because they didn't want the political fallout from the cons wailing about how it's nothing but payback... I disagree with that position because a lot of damage has been done to this country in the last 8 years and they should be held responsible.

Well, you think a LOT of things that have no basis in the facts or reality, so who knows what it is YOU think are the reasons Democrats didn’t bring about impeachment hearings even though they intimated to their rabid hyper partisan supporters like you that they would.

I guess it doesn’t occur to you that they never really intended to bring up any charges because they KNEW they didn’t have a case or the votes and merely were desirous of prosecuting Bush in the arena of public opinion thus damaging his credibility for purely partisan political purposes. Of course REALITY would never actually occur to you would it?


Quote:Originally Posted by Truth Detector
All the fantastical diatribe, lies and fabrications in the world won’t change those very basic and simple FACTS.


What facts? That the Dems haven't pursued multiple veins of legal action against the Shrub and his admin? Yup, but the reasons why not aren't as clear as you WANT them to be.

The multiple veins of legal action are merely figments of your over active hyper partisan mind and fabrications that have no place in the REAL world.


Quote:Originally Posted by Truth Detector
I can hardly say I would look forward to more of your twists and distorted version of reality, but I am certain there are more to come.


I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels the exact same way about you.

And your point is what?

Quote:Originally Posted by Truth Detector
Your irrational misplaced hate for Bush and Republicans aside, the least you could do is make some sense.


Your irrational misplaced love for Bush .... :roll:

I challenge you to show where any of my arguments, comments or defense of the truth can be construed as a misplaced “love” of ANYONE.

Again, reality and the facts are never your friends.

Republicans aside, the least you could do is make some sense. :roll:

Coming from you, this is once more a very apt definition of irony. But then, when you are in such rabid denial, why would one presume that you could even distinguish what makes sense and what doesn’t based on the wild-eyed lies and distortions you blather this forum with.

Your condescension and insults aside, by all means carry on with this campaign of obvious ignorance about “perceived” crimes of a President who based on your misplaced hatred of him purely for political philosophical differences causes you to plaster the forum with such uninformed hateful bile.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

You left off, "and so I'm going to make some of those assumptions myself"
I thought it was clear that I was making assumptions. That's why I said "I think it's because.." instead of "I know it's because..."

That the Dems haven't pursued multiple veins of legal action against the Shrub and his admin? Yup, but the reasons why not aren't as clear as you WANT them to be.
What are the reasons then? I'm guessing you believe there are grounds for legal proceedings, so why do you think the Dems have chosen not to pursue them?
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

I thought it was clear that I was making assumptions. That's why I said "I think it's because.." instead of "I know it's because..."
I realize that but I just wanted to make sure it was clear that nothing you said had any basis in reality.

What are the reasons then? I'm guessing you believe there are grounds for legal proceedings, so why do you think the Dems have chosen not to pursue them?
Well, you say "the dems" but that's not really true since a LOT of dems want pursue an INVESTIGATION. Some of the dems in DC don't want to pursue it because they are more interested in looking like the pitchfork mob repubs of the Clinton years. They like the new power they have and they don't want to do anything that might jeopardize that position.
 
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