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CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attac

Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Grateful Heart said:
Expect to see this type of dishonesty quite a bit among the liberal talking heads. Chris Matthews continues to rant about Abu Ghraib when arguing that Bush & Cheney should be investigated, conveniently ignoring that those responsible for the incident have been punished, either through jail time or ruined careers.

Mix up and distort the facts and events, toss out as many ugly photos as possible, whip the public into a frenzy... and there you go.

;)
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Our first mistake is to assume that the people making these superfluous arguments are not interested in honesty or truth, this is about partisan political gamesmanship; nothing more. :cool:
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

ADK_Forever said:
Those responsible for saving innocent lives lived and worked in the White House.
Talk about dishonesty! :roll:
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I corrected your remarks; no bother. :2wave:
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
Those responsible for torturing innocent lives and gutting our Constitutionlived and worked in the White House.
Talk about dishonesty!
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Truth Detector said:
I corrected your remarks; no bother. :2wave:
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Why thank you! I didn't think you knew the difference. :mrgreen:
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

ADK_Forever said:
Those responsible lived and worked in the White House.
Talk about dishonesty! :roll:
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If you have some evidence that the White House authorized sodomizing detainees, urinating on detainees, pouring acid on detainees, forcing detainees to masturbate or commit homosexual acts, or exposing detainees to venomous snake bites... feel free to provide it.

If you have some evidence that the White House also authorized the U.S. guards who committed these violations to make pornographic videos of each other, feel free to provide that too.

;)
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Grateful Heart said:
If you have some evidence that the White House authorized sodomizing detainees, urinating on detainees, pouring acid on detainees, forcing detainees to masturbate or commit homosexual acts, or exposing detainees to venomous snake bites... feel free to provide it.

If you have some evidence that the White House also authorized the U.S. guards who committed these violations to make pornographic videos of each other, feel free to provide that too.
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You really need to get out more, turn on the news - any channel!, read a newspaper or magazine. :wow:
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Torture tape delays U.S.-UAE nuclear deal, say U.S. officials

In related news....

"In the tape, an Afghan grain dealer is seen being tortured by a member of the royal family of Abu Dhabi, one of the UAE's seven emirates.

The senior U.S. officials said the administration has held off on the ratification process because it believes sensitivities over the story can hurt its passage. The tape emerged in a federal civil lawsuit filed in Houston, Texas, by Bassam Nabulsi, a U.S. citizen, against Sheikh Issa bin Zayed al Nahyan. Former business partners, the men had a falling out, in part over the tape. In a statement to CNN, the sheikh's U.S. attorney said Nabulsi is using the videotape to influence the court over a business dispute."


"UAE Ambassador to the U.S. Yousef Al Otaiba told CNN his government always expected the deal to be sent to the Senate in early May, regardless of the controversy surrounding the tape.

"As far as we are concerned, the deal is on track and this has not affected the timing," he said."
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

ADK_Forever said:
You really need to get out more, turn on the news - any channel!, read a newspaper or magazine. :wow:
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Well I do... which is why I understand what crimes were committed at Abu Ghraib, who committed them, what the investigations found, who was punished, who took responsibility, etc... rather than spouting nonsense which I can't back up with a single reliable source.

It helps to keep informed of events like this so when I engage in mundane debates on Internet message boards, while I might not change stubborn minds, at the very least I won't expose myself to be a complete ignoramus.

:2wave:
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Grateful Heart said:
Well I do... which is why I understand what crimes were committed at Abu Ghraib, who committed them, what the investigations found, who was punished, who took responsibility, etc... rather than spouting nonsense which I can't back up with a single reliable source.

It helps to keep informed of events like this so when I engage in mundane debates on Internet message boards, while I might not change stubborn minds, at the very least I won't expose myself to be a complete ignoramus.
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Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld authorized the torture techniques for Abu Ghraib and Gitmo. Me thinks your definition of "informed" needs updating. :roll:

To claim to be informed and not know this would expose you as... oh... an ignoramus! :2wave:
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

ADK_Forever said:
Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld authorized the torture techniques for Abu Ghraib and Gitmo.
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Your inability to address specific issues illustrates why this investigation will go nowhere. You and Chris Matthews and the liberal blogosphere can scream 'Abu Ghraib' til you're blue... it means nothing.

;)
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Grateful Heart said:
Your inability to address specific issues illustrates why this investigation will go nowhere. You and Chris Matthews and the liberal blogosphere can scream 'Abu Ghraib' til you're blue... it means nothing.

;)
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Armed Services committee report

It appears many interrogation techniques were authorized. I do think many people are jumping the gun when they lump it all as kneejerk "torture".

Quite an interesting read.

You have to take into account many of the usual suspects are on that committee. Cornyn seems to be a relatively honest fellow. For a politician. The rest collectively arent worth a happy meal in honest value.



"a second FBI agent present did not have a "'moral
objection'" to the techniques and noted that he had "undergone comparable harsh interrogation techniques as part ofthe U.S. Army Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape (SERE) training"

Tons of mixed information in that.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

akyron said:
It appears many interrogation techniques were authorized. I do think many people are jumping the gun when they lump it all as kneejerk "torture".

Quite an interesting read.
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There's no doubt that this issue has been a highly controversial one for nearly seven years. Interrogation is, by its very nature, an unpleasant business. It's equally interesting to read the statement of six of the GOP committee members:

The latest inquiry into detainee treatment by the Senate Armed Services Committee breaks little new ground – merely reiterating the findings of at least 12 previous independent investigations, which reported that certain isolated and limited incidents of detainee abuse occurred in the handling of detainees in U.S. custody. The implication, however, that this abuse was the direct, necessary, or foreseeable result of policy decisions made by senior administration officials is false and without merit. It is counter-productive and potentially dangerous to our men and women in uniform to insinuate that illegal treatment of detainees resulted from official U.S. government policies.

...We regret that relevant facts and the contexts in which policy decisions were made were ignored in the Committee's report.
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GOP Committee Member Statement

There've been at least a dozen non-partisan reviews of alleged torture and abuse. None have implicated the administration or senior military officials.

;)
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Grateful Heart said:
Your inability to address specific issues illustrates why this investigation will go nowhere. You and Chris Matthews and the liberal blogosphere can scream 'Abu Ghraib' til you're blue... it means nothing.
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Because I don't agree with you I'm not addressing specific issues? :doh If Chris Mathews himself investigated this he would get to the bottom of it. Neo cons don't like him because he exposes them for what they are. He rags on Dems as well as Repubs.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

ADK_Forever said:
Because I don't agree with you I'm not addressing specific issues? :doh If Chris Mathews himself investigated this he would get to the bottom of it. Neo cons don't like him because he exposes them for what they are. He rags on Dems as well as Repubs.
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Okay folks that's a wrap, no need to take ADK seriously on ANYTHING. :rofl
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Truth Detector said:
Okay folks that's a wrap, no need to take ADK seriously on ANYTHING.
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Heyyy, welcome to our way of thinking. We haven't taken you seriously for a very lonnnnng time. :mrgreen:
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

ADK_Forever said:
Those responsible lived and worked in the White House.
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You're getting all emotional again. Bush & Cheney aren't responsible for a few rogue soldiers who crossed the convoluted line.

The folks involved with the unfortunate happenings at Abu Ghraib have been prosecuted.

Your incessant codswallup about Bush & Cheney isn't going to bring your wetdream of prosecuting them for something, anything, to fruition.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

GottaHurt said:
You're getting all emotional again. Bush & Cheney aren't responsible for a few rogue soldiers who crossed the convoluted line.

The folks involved with the unfortunate happenings at Abu Ghraib have been prosecuted.

Your incessant codswallup about Bush & Cheney isn't going to bring your wetdream of prosecuting them for something, anything, to fruition.
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To come here with that opinion demonstrates you don't know didly about the facts of this issue. There have even been talks of Obama pardoning all eleven of those soldiers who were improperly prosecuted for following the admin's orders and the CIA's directions because it has been proven they were following orders.

I won't waste my time playing with you anymore on this issue until you educate yourself on it. Google can help you.

I predict all eleven of those soldiers WILL be pardoned. Will I hear from you when they are?
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

ADK_Forever said:
To come here with that opinion demonstrates you don't know didly about the facts of this issue. There have even been talks of Obama pardoning all eleven of those soldiers who were improperly prosecuted for following the admin's orders and the CIA's directions because it has been proven they were following orders.

I won't waste my time playing with you anymore on this issue until you educate yourself on it. Google can help you.

I predict all eleven of those soldiers WILL be pardoned. Will I hear from you when they are?
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Who is going to pardon them? :lol:
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

ADK_Forever said:
To come here with that opinion demonstrates you don't know didly about the facts of this issue.
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When you're involved in a debate, mere opinion trumps your "facts".

ADK_Forever said:
There have even been talks of Obama pardoning all eleven of those soldiers who were improperly prosecuted for following the admin's orders and the CIA's directions because it has been proven they were following orders.
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You've been feeding at the DailyKOS again. Oooops, foiled again :doh

**CORRECTION**
April 22, 2009 - 12:00 AM ET

False alarm. For the time being, the Obama administration is content to let Spc. Graner and Staff Sgt. Frederick rot in jail for another six and four years respectively. Apologies for any inconvenience caused by the release of this premature reportage.
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Daily Kos: AP: White House to Pardon Abu Ghraib Soldiers [Correction]

ADK_Forever said:
I won't waste my time playing with you anymore on this issue until you educate yourself on it. Google can help you.
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The premise of all your arguments is:

Bush & Cheney = guilty.

Guilty of what, most rational people don't know. The far left however have concocted almost every imaginable charge against them. The result is pretty much the same everytime, alot of bloviating, press conferences, and grandstanding.

ADK_Forever said:
I predict all eleven of those soldiers WILL be pardoned. Will I hear from you when they are?
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You betcha :doh :roll: :lamo
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

ADK_Forever said:
I predict all eleven of those soldiers WILL be pardoned. Will I hear from you when they are?
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Well that would be an interesting speech from the President.

"America does not torture! But I'm giving a blanket pardon to those who we've convicted of torture!"

You think that would boost his already sky high popularity with the world community?

:rofl
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

I simply cannot understand the rationale for wanting to prosecute the authors of the policy memos. Questions as to the legality of the enhanced interrogation techniques were important, but are not the center of the debate. The issue is whether those who argued that such techniques were not illegal -- and therefore should be available -- ought to be tried.

They should not. If for no other reason, prosecution would have a seriously chilling effect on future government officials. With the threat of prosecution, serious memos on controversial matters will increasingly become the exception rather than the rule. It would be extremely counterproductive to inhibit the examination of, and the expression in writing, of opinions on controversial matters in the future.

If there is a fault here that requires attention, it is with the policy and political process. Mid-level officials do not make policy; they seek to influence it through their analysis and recommendations. What is required is a process inside the executive branch in which competing assessments and alternative prescriptions are subject to rigorous scrutiny. And Congress is responsible for effective oversight. Both the previous administration and the Congress failed to meet these tests.

It has become clear that high-ranking congresspeople from both sides of the aisle were briefed on and endorsed the enhanced interrogation techniques. Yet some, like Nancy Pelosi, are now attempting to disguise their approval. If there is accountability to be sought, then it should be sought at the right level of responsibility.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

oldreliable67 said:
I simply cannot understand the rationale for wanting to prosecute the authors of the policy memos.
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Pretty simple. The Democrats and MSM were unable to bring down the Bush administration while in office. They are determined to do it now.

To go after Bush and Cheney directly would appear too political... so they're using a political version of water torture... in that they can start with a slow drip, drip, drip by investigating lower levels, then move higher along the food chain... Rumsfeld... Cheney... Bush.

Second, it provides them cover in the event things turn sour in Iraq and Afghanistan under Obama's watch. Great diversion, no?

;)
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

oldreliable67 said:
I simply cannot understand the rationale for wanting to prosecute the authors of the policy memos. Questions as to the legality of the enhanced interrogation techniques were important, but are not the center of the debate. The issue is whether those who argued that such techniques were not illegal -- and therefore should be available -- ought to be tried.
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You're absolutely right, it's not illegal to recommend torture. It's illegal to order and carry out torture. Bush's legal advisors, despite ample historical examples to the contrary, somehow got it into their thick skulls that waterboarding is not torture and proceeded to advise the President accordingly. That's fine, but if the President decides to act on that "advice" then it's his own fault for surrounding himself with and relying on such glaring incompetence in his staff.

oldreliable67 said:
If there is a fault here that requires attention, it is with the policy and political process. Mid-level officials do not make policy; they seek to influence it through their analysis and recommendations. What is required is a process inside the executive branch in which competing assessments and alternative prescriptions are subject to rigorous scrutiny. And Congress is responsible for effective oversight. Both the previous administration and the Congress failed to meet these tests.

It has become clear that high-ranking congresspeople from both sides of the aisle were briefed on and endorsed the enhanced interrogation techniques. Yet some, like Nancy Pelosi, are now attempting to disguise their approval. If there is accountability to be sought, then it should be sought at the right level of responsibility.
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Absolutely right again, but I think it should go further than just "who looked the other way." Everyone who ordered torture, carried out torture, or were complacent in allowing torture, should face criminal charges. Everyone.
 
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