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CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attac

Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Truth Detector said:
You should be the poster child for Liberals Slippery and this should become and advertisement for why Liberals and Liberal Democrats should never obtain leadership positions in Government.

I am sure the families of the 9-11 victims and the future victims will appreciate that you don't give a rat’s ass about their rights to live in peace and safety in this country as long as we can claim we held the moral high ground by not doing enough to prevent such tragedies.
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I think you and your ilk, along with the last eight years of your policies prove that conservatives should never obtain leadership positions in Government. I'm sure the families of the 9-11 victims and the future victims will appreciate that we don't sacrifice our rights and morals on the very specious idea that it will keep us safe from attack.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Slippery Slope said:
Excuse me, I was in the Marines and my son is currently in the Marines. We do not train our military in the use of waterboarding nor do we "prepare" our military to survive capture by waterboarding them.
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Some do.

CNSNews.com - Obama Bans Waterboarding Terrorists, But Pentagon Won't Say If It Still Waterboards Military Trainees
An August 2002 memo on CIA interrogation tactics used on some captured al Qaeda terrorists said the “same techniques" continued to be used on some U.S. military personnel during SERE training.

Other techniques included slapping, dietary limitations, sleep deprivation and confinement in small rooms. Critics of the interrogation techniques, including President Barack Obama, have called such techniques torture.

“The mission [of SERE] is to train military members to survive an isolation event,” said Kathleen Jabs, spokeswoman for the U.S. Joint Forces Command, the division of the Defense Department that oversees the SERE program. “It could be a full range of things.”

When asked whether the training techniques have changed to eliminate waterboarding since the 2002 memo was written, Jabs told CNSNews.com: “The training model they use, they base on scientific research and sound training principles. You have to adequately prepare military personnel for what could happen if they are captured.”
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There are numerous other sources indicating some of our warriors do undergo such training. 100% understandable.

What is not understandable or rational is Obama.

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Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

MrVicchio said:
Horrible to look at what we did before 9/11, with attacks on our ships, our barracks and yes one OTHER attack on the WTC... and what we did afterwards that resulted in... no attacks.

I think your problem is that it shows the methods you seem to prefer showed a poor track record.
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If torture works so well why didn't we torture Saddam to find out where the WMDs were? :roll:
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

WillRockwell said:
you are posing a scenario from the movies and television which, to my knowledge, has never occured, and are using it as a general justification for torture. If a 24 type ticking time bomb situation really existed, don't you think a terrorist could hold out till the bomb went off? And that's the best justification you have.
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Of course I was.

Because most of us will never EVER be in a position to make the call or have to hurt someone to save others lives.

I used a simple example of how when it's personal, their views would change. Are you saying you'd let say your parents, wife, children die at the hands of terrorist if you ever found yourself in such a situation?

Be honest here, you know you'd do what you needed to do to save them.

Why is it okay to save your family, but not okay to save others?


And that's what the point was being drawn too. You went off on "that's an unreal situation!" because you wont' answer the question.

Bad for the government to save lives through waterboarding.

Okay for you to break a kneecap to save your family.

Gotta love it.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Well this is great to hear. lets just hope that when it happens, they kill your friends and family members this time, instead of mine. Then lets see you exaggerated claims about rights and moral standings. :roll:
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I guess that's the difference between you and I. I'm a patriot.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Slippery Slope said:
If torture works so well why didn't we torture Saddam to find out where the WMDs were? :roll:
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Torture is but one tool; we weren't pressed for time, and we had our guy in there befriending Saddam.

This isn't always possible.
Sometime torture may be necessary... just like war... which is the ultimate torture... No?

Bombings at odd and all hours, overwhelming force, serious injury, blasting noise to deprive the enemy of sleep... and as this is torturous... Our Dear Capitulator should simply BAN war.

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Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Slippery Slope said:
Excuse me, I was in the Marines and my son is currently in the Marines. We do not train our military in the use of waterboarding nor do we "prepare" our military to survive capture by waterboarding them.
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Waterboarding: A SERE-ing Experience for Tens of Thousands of US Military Personnel - HUMAN EVENTS

Hmmm... I call you liar sir.

JPRA’s description of the waterboarding technique provided in that first attachment was inconsistent in key respects from the U.S. Navy SERE school’s description of waterboarding. According to the Navy SERE school’s operating instructions, for example, while administering the technique, the Navy limited the amount of water poured on a student’s face to two pints. However, the JPRA attachment said that “up to 1.5 gallons of water” may be poured onto a “subject’s face.” While the Navy’s operating instructions dictated that “[n]o effort will be made to direct the stream of water into the student’s nostrils or mouth,” the description provided by JPRA contained no such limitation for subjects of the technique. While the Navy limited the use of the cloth on a student’s face to twenty seconds, the JPRA’s description said only that the cloth should remain in place for a “short period of time.” And while the Navy restricted anyone from placing pressure on the chest or stomach during the administration of this technique, JPRA’s description included no such limitation for subjects of the technique.
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http://www.victoriousopposition.com...mmittee-report-the-ends-do-not-justify-the-m/

Taht blog is crap, but it does show you to be full of ****.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Slippery Slope said:
I guess that's the difference between you and I. I'm a patriot.
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Because you pay lots of taxes.
Isn't that the Lib definition of Patriot?

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Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Reverend_Hellh0und said:
I bring this up all the time, I was waterboarded in SERE school, and I am mentally ok. :thumbs:
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I'd say it turned you into an authoritarian, rightwing tool. :2wave:

Not to mention SERE training is vastly different than being an actual prisoner being tortured. There is a large staff to ensure your safety and you know it. Even the trainers will tell you that the waterbaording done in training is nothing like what really happens.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Slippery Slope said:
I guess that's the difference between you and I. I'm a patriot.
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That's not a difference. So's the Reverend.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Slippery Slope said:
Not to mention SERE training is vastly different than being an actual prisoner being tortured. There is a large staff to ensure your safety and you know it. Even the trainers will tell you that the waterbaording done in training is nothing like what really happens.
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Given that by your own admission you have not experienced waterboarding, this statement is beyond your competence to make.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

MrVicchio said:
Put them on the spot, say.. family members held hostage somewhere with a deadline, and give them one bad guy with the info to save their families...

They'd be waterboarding, knee capping and breaking fingers too.
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You're probably right there, just as if you put a guy on the streets with his family and he had a choice between killing someone for food or letting his family starve, he would most likely kill a man.

That, however, doesn't make the choice right which is the point.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Slippery Slope said:
I'd say it turned you into an authoritarian, rightwing tool. :2wave:
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Uhm I am the opposite of authoritarian. Show some integrity brother. :2wave:



Not to mention SERE training is vastly different than being an actual prisoner being tortured. There is a large staff to ensure your safety and you know it.
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So there is no "large staff" with these prisoners? is "simulated drowning" really different because of who we are? I don't get your point.

Even the trainers will tell you that the waterbaording done in training is nothing like what really happens.
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Reall? Link please.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Slippery Slope said:
Even the trainers will tell you that the waterbaording done in training is nothing like what really happens.
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Exact-a-mundo!

Training has a purpose: to expose soldiers to what might be done to them if they're ever captured. They know it won't go too far.

Torture's purpose: to extract infomation. Victim doesn't know how far it will go and thus, will at some point say "something".


The experts also agree that torture is not the way to get reliable information. Think about it. If you're tortured, and you don't know what they're trying to get, you'll say anything to make them stop. How reliable is that?


Hey, I saw last night that that idiot, Sean Hannity, agreed to be water boarded for charity. If he doesn't take the coward's way out, which I expect, THAT would be a DVR moment. :lol:
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

ADK_Forever said:
Exact-a-mundo!

Training has a purpose: to expose soldiers to what might be done to them if they're ever captured. They know it won't go too far.

Torture's purpose: to extract infomation. Victim doesn't know how far it will go and thus, will at some point say "something".


The experts also agree that torture is not the way to get reliable information. Think about it. If you're tortured, and you don't know what they're trying to get, you'll say anything to make them stop. How reliable is that?
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Why would they waterboard if it does not work?


And when did you go to SERE school again?

Hey, I saw last night that that idiot, Sean Hannity, agreed to be water boarded for charity. If he doesn't take the coward's way out, which I expect, THAT would be a DVR moment. :lol:
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why would it be exactly?
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Well because obviously if a guy you think is a prick and you disagree with is agreeing to do something to actually help people that is "torture" its going to be an entertaining thing worthy of multiple repeat viewing by you.

However, if its done to someone that is 100% known to have been involved with terrorism and is done in hopes of getting information that can be used to stop further terrorism, it is a horrible crime against humanity that needs to have dozens of people executed or put in prison for life for.

Come on Rev, how could you not know that. :roll: ;)
 
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Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Zyphlin said:
Well because obviously if a guy you think is a prick and you disagree with is agreeing to do something to actually help people that is going to be uncomfortable its going to be an entertaining thing worthy of multiple repeat viewing.

However, if its done to someone that is 100% known to have been involved with terrorism and is done in hopes of getting information that can be used to stop further terrorism, it is a horrible crime against humanity that needs to have dozens of people executed or put in prison for life for.

Come on Rev, how could you not know that. :roll: ;)
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:lol: Game, Set, match.......... :thumbs:
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Why would they waterboard if it does not work?
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So they could say that Mr. Terrorist said something that supports their agenda. Why did they water board that psychotic what, 183 times? Probably because they got nothing the first 182 times! :lol:

And when did you go to SERE school again?
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Why would that matter? Please don't tell me you're going to use that empty argument that if someone hasn't experienced it that they can't talk about it. :roll:
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Why would they waterboard if it does not work?
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Half the **** the government does doesn't work and they keep doing it. Who the hell knows why they do most of the stuff they do

Reverend_Hellh0und said:
And when did you go to SERE school again?
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Can you basically tap out in training? Was it done to you multiple times a day for months?

In the end, we prosecuted the Japanese under war crimes in the '40's for exactly this reason. So either its torture, or we unfairly prosecuted some of the Japanese government.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Ikari said:
Can you basically tap out in training? Was it done to you multiple times a day for months?.
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How do you mean multiple times a day for months? Like multiple times every day?
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Ikari said:
Can you basically tap out in training?
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You can stop it at ANY time!

It's TRAINING, not real life. And it's a far cry from TORTURE.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Zyphlin said:
Like multiple times every day?
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Yes, over a long time span.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Ikari said:
Can you basically tap out in training? Was it done to you multiple times a day for months?
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read:

This is from a guy who went through the NAVY SERE school. my experience was similar.

Waterboarding: A SERE-ing Experience for Tens of Thousands of US Military Personnel - HUMAN EVENTS

In the end, we prosecuted the Japanese under war crimes in the '40's for exactly this reason. So either its torture, or we unfairly prosecuted some of the Japanese government.
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who knows. I don't have a way back machine so I don't care.
 
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