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CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attac

Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

I think the term "torture" has the same reaction to it that "Nuclear Power" did during the 80's and even to today. Despite all evidence, there are those people that think "ZOMG AMERICA TORTURED WTFBBQ!!!!11!1"

And all other thought goes out.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

The techniques described in the report are pretty mild when compared to the decapitation practiced by Muslim radicals.

Did you note also that the techniques described were those that our military submits to in SERE training? Did you note that the implementation guidelines for those techniques were governed by experience gained by subjecting our military to them during SERE training over quite a long period of time?

So if we now train them to resist even more radical training we can now torture our captives or invasion a little harder?

What if their people compared us to our radicals? Like men decapitating people on public buses for no reason at all. Or greedy men selling illegal weapons to young men in our very own country so they could 2 man storm a school.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

I think the term "torture" has the same reaction to it that "Nuclear Power" did during the 80's and even to today. Despite all evidence, there are those people that think "ZOMG AMERICA TORTURED WTFBBQ!!!!11!1"

And all other thought goes out.

If the Bush administration had a fraction of the competence you credit them with, they would have captured Osama binLaden, and certainly would not have started an unrelated conflict until that job was done. Why would I believe anything they say about the results of their torture, when they can't accomplish the most basic retaliation?
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

If the Bush administration had a fraction of the competence you credit them with, they would have captured Osama binLaden, and certainly would not have started an unrelated conflict until that job was done. Why would I believe anything they say about the results of their torture, when they can't accomplish the most basic retaliation?




How is Obama's hunt for bin laden coming along? :lol:
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

How is Obama's hunt for bin laden coming along? :lol:[/QUOT
E]

After a 100 or so days? I'd say pretty good. Af5ter all bush couldn't find after 6 or so years
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

How is Obama's hunt for bin laden coming along? :lol:[/QUOT
E]

After a 100 or so days? I'd say pretty good. Af5ter all bush couldn't find after 6 or so years
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

I'm skeptical that something that causes NO bodily harm or physical damage falls under the guidelines of torture. I think there's lots of unwarranted hysteria.

What about "Chinese Water TORTURE"? Seriously, its got torture in the name...
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

That's about as logical as saying that if I permit the government to prosecute and imprison murderers, then I'm permitting the government to prosecute and imprison anyone they label a murderer. And that the only thing protecting me from government prosecution and imprisonment is that it has not labeled me a murderer.

:shock:

But that is EXACTLY what you would be doing if you didn't allow them to be tried in court. Do you honestly not see the similarity between this and the terrorists?
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

What about "Chinese Water TORTURE"? Seriously, its got torture in the name...

Well I just googled it and apparently it's not even proven the Chinese ever used it. Mythbusters didn't think it had very untoward effects.

While it sounds horribly ominous it sounds pretty tame and lame.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

WTF is with people? Are you all intentionally being dense?


I'm talking TERRORIST ATTACKS on American interests. Why is that comment so hard to wrap your head around?

And this isn't about Bush or Clinton... it's about methods used and which worked! Clinton ran with one mindset, and the world seemed to approve of it. It however was flawed in that terrorist seemed to keep blowing **** up. The Kobar towers, the WTC, the USS Cole... 9/11 comes along and our leaders decide "okay, now we're serious". And guess what?

Attacks on American soil 0.

Attacks on American interest? Almost nil. Yes, you could say daily if you pull up Iraq, and I can grant that on a technicality, but it is a war/combat situation... so that cancels it all out.


Many attacks were averted because of the more intense information gathering, from electronic to waterboarding three scum bags. Lives were saved, terrorist captured, all in all it proved effective.


What's so hard to get about that?

What, no ticking time bomb scenarios? :roll:

No mushroom cloud fear mongering?

No mention of how your God, Ronald Reagon, tucked tail and ran immediately after our marines were blown to hell in Lebanon?

You're so happy asking everyone who thinks you're nutso "what rights we lost", answer me this riddle batbrain. What attack did any of that torturing prevent? I'll hold "your" head under water awaiting your reply since that won't cause you any pain or discomfort thus, is not technically torture.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

What, no ticking time bomb scenarios? :roll:

No mushroom cloud fear mongering?

No mention of how your God, Ronald Reagon, tucked tail and ran immediately after our marines were blown to hell in Lebanon?

You're so happy asking everyone who thinks you're nutso "what rights we lost", answer me this riddle batbrain. What attack did any of that torturing prevent? I'll hold "your" head under water awaiting your reply since that won't cause you any pain or discomfort thus, is not technically torture.
Wow, look at all this seething anger. You have problems. :roll:
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Wow, look at all this seething anger. You have problems. :roll:

I see you often mistake logical, fact based arguments for anger.
Does that allow you to believe your position easier?

Someone with a pic of our President on a Russian flag thinks "I" have problems? :2funny: :2funny: :2funny:
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Is this what the left calls getting SCHOOLED? What a bunch of horse****. O'Reilly got no where near being SCHOOLED. A SOF officer, that apparently knew a little in this area. He had an opinion just like anyone else. He schooled no one. He gave the left's talking points, that's about all. I know SOF personnel, that are still in the military....not working at Cato. Don't think this guys opinion speaks for all SOF personnel.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Is this what the left calls getting SCHOOLED? What a bunch of horse****. O'Reilly got no where near being SCHOOLED. A SOF officer, that apparently knew a little in this area. He had an opinion just like anyone else. He schooled no one. He gave the left's talking points, that's about all. I know SOF personnel, that are still in the military....not working at Cato. Don't think this guys opinion speaks for all SOF personnel.

I didn't think anyone was getting schooled really and where good questions.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Well I just googled it and apparently it's not even proven the Chinese ever used it. Mythbusters didn't think it had very untoward effects.

While it sounds horribly ominous it sounds pretty tame and lame.

The Chinese typically preferred the Jet Plane position. This was utilized during the Cultural Revolution extensively.

The "handcuffed airplane" torture -- The victim is forced to stand with both legs straight, head bent down until the face is pointing to the ground, while the arms are pulled back until they are straight and the fingers are pointing to the sky. Handcuffs are used to fasten the hands together and to make it possible to hang the victim up in this position. After a little while, the victim suffers from dizziness, weak legs, sore arms, rapid breathing and heavy sweating.

Victims at times would be kept in this position for days on end. However, since it left no visible signs of torture afterwards, Mao stated that it was not torture.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

“Both KSM and Zubaydah had ‘expressed their belief that the general US population was ‘weak,’ lacked resilience, and would be unable to ‘do what was necessary’ to prevent the terrorists from succeeding in their goals.’ Indeed, before the CIA used enhanced techniques in its interrogation of KSM, KSM resisted giving any answers to questions about future attacks, simply noting, ‘Soon you will know.’”

After he was subjected to the “waterboard” technique, KSM became cooperative, providing intelligence that led to the capture of key al Qaeda allies and, eventually, the closing down of an East Asian terrorist cell that had been tasked with carrying out the 9/11-style attack on Los Angeles."


CNSNews.com - CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attack on Los Angeles



The irony is monolithic reading this thread.


They were laughing at the "accepted" interrogation techniques all the way up until the waterboard came out.

Then it was an impromtu "middle east idol" contest.
 
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Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Did anybody bring up that we waterboard many of our own soldiers as part of training them to deal with interrogation?

Buddies of mine have told me of being waterboarded in advanced training in the service. They said it was virtually impossible not to comply with whatever was being asked of them, but that it did them no lasting harm.

If we do it to our own soldiers to toughen them up and prepare them for the worst, I have no problem with doing it to known terrorists if we reasonably believe doing so may prevent an attack.

There's apparently a world of difference between waterboarding, and traditional "torture" such as splinting the fingernails, cutting off body parts, etc.

G.

Did anybody bring up that, after WWII, we prosecuted and sentenced Japanese officers to prison and hard labor for doing exactly the same thing?
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Did anybody bring up that, after WWII, we prosecuted and sentenced Japanese officers to prison and hard labor for doing exactly the same thing?

Exacty what tragic attack did the japanese officer prevent?
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

CNSNews.com - CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attack on Los Angeles

I guess this settles the debate on whether or not waterboarding works. Saved lives, caught terrorist. Good thing really.

It is amazing to watch people try to deny the fact torture/coercive methods work.

I find it amazing they believe we do it as regular business... we don't... and I don't consider waterboarding torture.

Torture works, and works well when you have a little info and can leverage it to get more.
It works as a stand alone method when time is of import.

It shouldn't be taken off the table, as the mere threat of it, and playing to it is a psychological weapon. That weapon is lost when a president reveals tactics in a greater strategy.

I guess good-cop/bad-cop is next on the way out.

Then there is Obama and his team scrubbing the truth out of documents for public consumption:

Obama muddles torture message - Josh Gerstein and Mike Allen - POLITICO.com
In the most recent instance, Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair acknowledged in a memo to the intelligence community that Bush-era interrogation practices yielded had "high-value information,” then omitted that admission from a public version of his assessment.

.

.
 
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Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

Evidence is mounting that not only did we not obtain useful information from waterboarding, but that the intention of the waterboarding was to obtain false information. Apparently Cheney and Rumsfeld were so desparate for an excuse to invade Iraq that as early as December 2002 they began efforts to enlist members of the military's SERE unit, not to protect against torture, but to inflict it. Some members of this elite unit actually left the service and became private contractors, selling torture services to the CIA.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

What, no ticking time bomb scenarios? :roll:


why bother, its a real question, that people like you cut and run from.

No mushroom cloud fear mongering?

meh i don't think our next threat is nuclear.


No mention of how your God, Ronald Reagon, tucked tail and ran immediately after our marines were blown to hell in Lebanon?


or when clinton tucked tail and ran in somalia?



You're so happy asking everyone who thinks you're nutso "what rights we lost", answer me this riddle batbrain. What attack did any of that torturing prevent? I'll hold "your" head under water awaiting your reply since that won't cause you any pain or discomfort thus, is not technically torture.


wow insults and obfuscation all in one post/ :lo:
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

It is amazing to watch people try to deny the fact torture/coercive methods work.

Obviously it makes people "talk". But, expert after expert agree that anything resulted from torture is not dependable. One of Bush's excuses to invade Iraq was info gotten from one man from torture. And it was found to be wrong. Just like every single one of all his BS reasons to invade a country that didn't do anything to us.
 
Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

why bother, its a real question, that people like you cut and run from.

That is not a real question.

As far as your point that you were waterboarded during training. :doh That was to educate you what the enemy did and to give you a head's up as far as enduring it. You had no fear it would go too far. Torture is meant to extract information. They are two very different experiences. :roll:
 
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