Irrelevant to the issue, but do rant on...
Absolutely relevant to the issue since you are citing his "staying the course" as the right thing to do. Staying the course is directly linked to the unnecessary invasion of Iraq.
Really? When did we leave?
When did we decide to stop trying to win?
This is your convenient way of ignoring all the things Bush got wrong with his strategies. The ones that changed over time. "Staying the course" is a euphemism for "we broke it, we can't walk away until we figure out a way to fix it in some way that benefits us."
If I were to do so, I would only be re-stating the obvious -- GWB did what -he- thought was the right thing to do in terms of defending the country,
Oh horse ****. This is where you try to mask what he did as some kind of necessary act. Defend our country? This isn't even laughable. It's actually very depressing that people still hang on to this myth even though it's been proven to be a lie. For you to sit here and say "he did the right thing by staying the course" and "he did what he thought was right" does not make it
right.
and did so knowing that it would cost his party. Impossible to show otherwise, and as such, impossible to argue otherwise.
Just as it's impossible for you to prove you know what his intentions were. Stop trying to think you can play your double standard against me in this thread if you are going to be so obvious about it. This is nothing but your opinion. The facts of how the whole thing played out are very much against your theory.
To be wrong again, I have to have been wrong a first time -- which isn't the case. The problem here is that you do not understand what is being argued.
I absolutely understand what is being argued and you are wrong. You believe GWB did the right thing despite the political ramifications because he thought it was best for the country. I'm countering your assertion and claiming he did it to forward an agenda as Iraq was NOT necessary and therefore not right and staying the course was NOT the right thing to do. It absolutely matters whether or not the act you are using as an example was truly the right thing to do when you say "he did the right thing despite the political ramifications." Don't try to church this up.
The issuse here is doing what YOU think is the right thing, regardess of what others think or what it will do to your political power. Given that, what 'millions of others' think was the right thing to do, in this regard, is meaningless. GWB did what -he- thought was the right thing to do.
No, this is where you move the goal posts in order to back out of your illogical defense of Bush's actions in Iraq. What's at issue here is Obama backing off of the AWB. Which is a good thing. It doesn't really matter why he did it, the fact is he did it. You think that's going to win him any votes with his mainline supporters? He walked away from something that was obviously important to him and many in his party because he knew it was going to be a major political blunder and cause more loss of confidence in the administration and the Democratic party.
Wow, God forbid a Democrat walk away from a liberal idea because it's unpopular with the rest of the country. He got this one right. Who would have thought it, a political leaders actually being cognizant of the big mistake he was about to make and then decide not to make it. Last I checked politicians don't run for office with the sole purpose of being able to do whatever they want just so they can throw it all away during the next election. The idea is to do the right things when you can, do the smart things when you can. If you do that, chances are you will retain office and continue to be allowed to try and do good things. There is a huge difference with regard to invading another nation and killing thousands unnecessarily and pushing an economic plan that you and your adviser believe will actually work to the benefit of society. There are things that are obviously the right thing to do...like drop the damned love affair with the AWB. There are things that are obviously not the right thing to do...going to war without a truly just cause. And there are things that are debatable in terms of whether or not they are right or wrong...such as certain economic policies.
You can play this out any way you want. But the difference between the examples given here (Bush doing a bad thing for what he believed was the right reasons and Obama doing a good thing simply because it was the politically right or safe thing to do) is that in the end, what Obama is actually doing is truly the right thing to do for this country. What Bush did was truly bad for this country. Reasons be damned.
Goobieman said:
Some people believe in 'doing the right thing' regardless of the political consquences (see: GWB) and other people put 'doing the right thing' behind the retention of political power.
Of the two, I'll take the former, even if I disagree with them
Given your reference to Bush's actions I'd say that you would probably follow an idiot off a cliff so long as he truly felt it was the right thing to do. Well good luck with that. The only thing that really matters is that the right thing is done. If the right thing is done and it's for the good of this nation, what do you care with regard to the motive? The nation was taken care of.
Your opinion here, as noted above, is meaningless.
So... try again.
Right back at there Goobieman. The only difference is that my opinion is logical, yours not so much.
