I'll not argue this point, you believe it to be a deliberate lie, I'm not ready to make that leap.
You can't argue the point, because the lie is blatant. You can only attempt to spin it.
Bull****. Your asserting that since you've not heard of raids being conducted on U.S. gun dealers that Obama is lying. You're being dishonest again.
No, you're flat out wrong. I've shown time and time again that Obama's blatant lie was about the 90% number he stated, 3 weeks after Clinton got hammered on it.
The only dishonesty here, is your obvious attempt to make false accusations. You have priors.
No, but you did say that if in fact guns could be traced back to U.S. gun dealers there would have been ATF raids on the dealers.
No, you said that.
I posted this:
They keep talking about tracing all these weapons back to the United States, yet they give no specifics. If they've been traced back here, how come DOJ/ATF/FBI aren't conducting raids to shut down the arms dealers?
See how that is presented, in the form of a question.
In fact, a good portion of your argument is based around this logic. So I ask, if they weren't selling to the cartels or some agent of the cartels, why would you forward the notion that we should be raiding the gun dealers? I'll tell you why, you are dishonest and you further...you really don't understand what you are talking about.
Ahhh, the typical Lerxst
"I'm right your wrong because I said so" argument. Yep, the Lerxst ship is sinking fast.
Yeah, I'd avoid actually trying to rebut that if I were you too. But you really have no way to debunk what I've said because it is a scenario that has played out thousands of times at gun shows all over the country. And it is just one example of why your house of cards is so easy to blow down.
Then please give a link to all these scenario's being played out. Otherwise it's just more Lerxst Band Camp Stories.
Yet your reputation here is so well established by members on all sides of the political spectrum. Yeah, the problem here is me alright. You've not substantiated your case with anything other than your staccato posting of opinion and bad logic interspersed with an occasional reference to some actual truth.
Yep, you're clinging to the crows nest now. You keep telling yourself this, as you do in every desperate post of yours, and maybe one of these days you'll believe it.
He backed away from it. That is what is most important here.
No, he lied about the 90%.
You have assumed a very large amount of information and been called on it. And you haven't actually been critical of the ATF or any other agency in this thread. You've not proven anything other than Obama mischaracterized the 90% statistic in his speech. I can and have run circles around you in numerous debates regarding the bringing of facts. Thus far, as I have pointed out, the main foundation of your post that started this was based completely on your ignorant assumptions and lack of knowledge regarding how guns are traced in criminal investigations.
I've assumed nothing, you're the one throwing around the assumptions and false accusations. My position from the beginning has been Obama lying about the 90% and raising the question as to why the DOJ/ATF/FBI haven't conducted raids on gun shops.
Translation: "I still really can't make my case so I'll make a runty little anti-Obama remark." Keep dancing.
No, I was pointing out your feeble attempt to spin the fact that Obama lied.
No, you have not. Not in any way, and I've shown why. What you are doing now is simply denying the obvious. You're logic is flawed and you wiggling like a fish on the floor of the boat. A spot you frequently find yourself in whether it be at my hand or any other number of posters who get on here and expose your inadequacies.
Oh my, someone is all riled up and frothing at the mouth. You've not argued a single point in this post, you instead have resorted to
nuh uh's, I'm right your wrong and silly little snipes aimed at me to make yourself feel better.
Stay tuned...the real hammer is about to drop.
Yep, unfortunately for you, right on your head.
You're actually stating that because you personally were presented with all the case files that the ATF is lying.
Drinking again?
Yep, just read the link I provided.
Wait, I forget that when learning to make a fried corn on the cob they don't teach you how to actually do research for yourself, only make assumptions that are tempered by your own political predispositions and and layered with flawed logic. Here let me help you out and in the process shut your bloviating.
Yes, your position on this issue is so stellar that this is the type of response you're trying to solidify your argument on :lamo
Now of course, had you actually read the link you posted, and investigated the links within the article a bit futher, you would have eventually found all this information...information that completely nails the coffin shut on your theory that "because no U.S. gun dealers were raided there is no proof that U.S. guns are going to Mexico." You now have the actual ATF testimony to the Senate supported by links to four major operation which produced hundreds of individual cases linked to thousands of firearms that were traced by the ATF.
That hammer is really kicking your ass here. You're just making up your own arguments now. I've never claimed anything even remotely close to this.
Well what exactly do you think I mean when I say they abused the figure? I was referring to them using it to over emphasize the extent of the issue. Unlike you, I'm not closing myself off to possibilities (regarding the gun grab reference I made), however the degree of probability has yet to be established. Anything is possible.
Again, you make up your own arguments as you go. I've not closed myself off to anything.
Gun grab? You're just running off on wild tangents now. Get a grip on yourself.
Never once have I stated, implied or suggested anything of the sort.
It's absolutely relevant when you are making a case that he is using the statement as a tool to build support for a gun grab.
You're hammered alright, you might switch to screwdrivers. Again, I've never made any such claims to any type of gun grab.
When you call Obama a liar you need to prove it. He made a statement out of context.
I have proven that he lied, and no he didn't make it out of context. You're desperately trying every angle to spin this.
And it's safe to say your failed argument about a lack of U.S. gun dealer raids equating to an Obama or ATF lie is now officially dead.
Yes, your strawman is dead. I've never made any such argument. You did.
And now you are trying to divert. I can understand why. You made a stupid argument in order to criticize Obama. When that failed you reverted to the "90%" argument. Fine. That doesn't change the fact that you stepped on your dick once again and got called on it.
No diversion here. I made no stupid argument. I proved Obama lied about the 90% and posed a question in regard to gun shops.
Your alcohol induced rantings are quite amusing though.
Which logically supported my debunking of your sputtering argument.
Yes your band camp stories are always the ace up your sleeve. :doh Tell us about you and the apple pie in the kitchen again.
And we all know how the rest of the forum feels about you now don't we.
You keep clicking your heels together and telling yourself that...:2wave:
In the end you have no choice to back off of your original claim and settle on "Obama lied about the 90%." Which is fine, you have fun with that. Maybe he did deliberately lie about it, maybe he misstated.
No need to back off on anything. I've proved in this thread, and in others, that the 90% is a lie.
I see that the seeds of doubt have taken root in your head. You know,
maybe he did... :lamo
