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Palin stands against abortion during Ind. speech

I call that *Dishonesty*.


How is it dishonest?


You support the right to own a gun. You are pro-gun.

I support her right to choose. I am pro-choice.


Choose what? it's ambiguous, dehumanizing, and hides the truth of the discussion. It is a catch phrase invented by Now to change the frame of the discussion from being against the act of abortion to an ambiguous general term.

Just like "man-caused disasters".



No one is "pro-abortion". I think I am pretty accurate in stating that most pro-choicers when I say that no one is all like "Yay!!!! Abortions for everyone. YAY!!!! Happy abortion day!"


I think you are taking "pro-abortion" the wrong way, I don't mean it like I think aps or others want people to have abortions at all..


I know people who are "pro-gun" but would never own one. You can be pro-abortion but never get one, or even want to see people get one.
 
My thinking is that she put her pro-life side aside and appointed the judge on their ability and merits.

I hope that's the case, however I wouldn't be very critical of her even if she did appoint the judge based upon her own prejudices. That's what governors and presidents do.
 
Pro-Abortion.


You support her choice to get an abortion.
No, not at all. An abortion is a procedure, and I'm not "pro" any procedure. Pro-choice, I'm "pro" on the issue that it should be a woman's choice whether or not she has the procedure. It's about the choice, not the procedure.


I am pro gun.
A gun is a tangible object, a gun is not a right. Pro-gun is actually a description that is slightly inaccurate when describing being pro-2nd Amendment. You are a gun enthusiast. But you are also a pro-2nd Amendment guy.

I support your RIGHT to own a gun.
Here's the difference, a person can be pro-2nd Amendment like you and I, but dislike actually owning a gun. They would not be pro-gun, they would be pro-gun rights or pro-2nd Amendment.

Pro-choice is like the way we use the word fetus. To dehumanize the act.
Absolutely false. Pro-choice is just that. "Pro" womens right to choose the procedure to abort a fetus. You may be morally offended by this, but that does not make your opinion of how someone uses the word "fetus" right. That is your way of trying to guilt people who don't subscribe to your standard of thinking.
If I was "pro-choice" and someone said to me I was "pro-abortion", I would say "yeah so"?
Well that is you. But that is not even close to being an accurate description of a pro-choice point of view.

The fact that you all have a problem with that term, to me, means that some little sliver inside you all, know its wrong. I call that. *Hope*.
The fact that some of us have a problem with that term is centered on the fact that it's inaccurate and being used a way to gain some false moral high ground from which to demean pro-choice folks.

That's the problem.
 
No, not at all. An abortion is a procedure, and I'm not "pro" any procedure. Pro-choice, I'm "pro" on the issue that it should be a woman's choice whether or not she has the procedure. It's about the choice, not the procedure.



A gun is a tangible object, a gun is not a right. Pro-gun is actually a description that is slightly inaccurate when describing being pro-2nd Amendment. You are a gun enthusiast. But you are also a pro-2nd Amendment guy.


Here's the difference, a person can be pro-2nd Amendment like you and I, but dislike actually owning a gun. They would not be pro-gun, they would be pro-gun rights or pro-2nd Amendment.


Absolutely false. Pro-choice is just that. "Pro" womens right to choose the procedure to abort a fetus. You may be morally offended by this, but that does not make your opinion of how someone uses the word "fetus" right. That is your way of trying to guilt people who don't subscribe to your standard of thinking.

Well that is you. But that is not even close to being an accurate description of a pro-choice point of view.


The fact that some of us have a problem with that term is centered on the fact that it's inaccurate and being used a way to gain some false moral high ground from which to demean pro-choice folks.

That's the problem.



hmm.... ok... then how about "pro-abortion rights" or "pro-abortion choice"?


(only have a sec here)
 
Here's the difference, a person can be pro-2nd Amendment like you and I, but dislike actually owning a gun. They would not be pro-gun, they would be pro-gun rights or pro-2nd Amendment.

.
Oh don't be silly. The issue of abortion is whether a fetus is a person, it is an entirely different issue to gun rights.
 
Oh don't be silly. The issue of abortion is whether a fetus is a person, it is an entirely different issue to gun rights.

I'm not the one who brought up the comparison. It was Rev, I was just responding to the comparison. I appreciate your attention to detail though.

:rofl
 
Pro-Abortion.


You support her choice to get an abortion.


I am pro gun.

I support your RIGHT to own a gun.


Pro-choice is like the way we use the word fetus. To dehumanize the act.


If I was "pro-choice" and someone said to me I was "pro-abortion", I would say "yeah so"?


The fact that you all have a problem with that term, to me, means that some little sliver inside you all, know its wrong. I call that. *Hope*.

I agree with jallman's post, although I do not genuinely think you are intentionally being dishonest. Thanks for explaining your logic. But, come on....no one can describe me as being pro-abortion. I could never undergo one unless my health was at risk (and even then, I cannot be positive). I could never recommend a person to undergo one. Rather, I would let them know how much richer my life is for having had a child.
 
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I agree with jallman's post, although I do not genuinely think you are intentionally being dishonest. Thanks for explaining your logic. But, come on....no one can describe me as being pro-abortion. I could never undergo one unless my health was at risk (and even then, I cannot be positive). I could never recommend a person to undergo one. Rather, I would let them know how much richer my life is for having had a child.



How can one be "unintentionally" honest? :confused:


I thanked you because I appreciate your post. I have my opinion on this, and it would be dishonest of me if I sugar coated it.


I think pro-choice is an ambiguous term, and I think the argument that a "fetus" is somehow different than a human life, is what is dishonest, imo.
 
How can one be "unintentionally" honest? :confused:


I thanked you because I appreciate your post. I have my opinion on this, and it would be dishonest of me if I sugar coated it.


I think pro-choice is an ambiguous term, and I think the argument that a "fetus" is somehow different than a human life, is what is dishonest, imo.

I think your rationale is dishonest in the sense that it isn't rational (MY opinion), but I don't think you have any sort of dishonesty in forming your opinion, if that makes sense. That's what I mean by unintentionally dishonest. :mrgreen:
 
I think your rationale is dishonest in the sense that it isn't rational (MY opinion), but I don't think you have any sort of dishonesty in forming your opinion, if that makes sense. That's what I mean by unintentionally dishonest. :mrgreen:




I think that is a difference of opinion not dishonesty by either of us.


Let me throw this out as well.


"pro-life" is ambiguous as well. I just posted in another thread, how I support terrorists being killed. How can I call myself "pro-life" then?


I think both sides have taken ambiguous words here now that I think about it.


"pro-abortion" "anti-abortion" seems better to me. perhaps, "pro-abortion choice" or "anti-abortion choice" would be more apt.
 
"pro-life" is ambiguous as well. I just posted in another thread, how I support terrorists being killed. How can I call myself "pro-life" then?


I think both sides have taken ambiguous words here now that I think about it.


"pro-abortion" "anti-abortion" seems better to me. perhaps, "pro-abortion choice" or "anti-abortion choice" would be more apt.

I don't think such semantic somersaults are necessary when you have two adults discussing a topic with dedication to honesty. When I say I am prochoice, you know exactly what that means and when you say you are prolife, I know exactly what you mean. :shrug:
 
I don't think such semantic somersaults are necessary when you have two adults discussing a topic with dedication to honesty. When I say I am prochoice, you know exactly what that means and when you say you are prolife, I know exactly what you mean. :shrug:



meh, that is the reality of it true. however i find the "pro-choice" label as inaccurate and prefer to call thing as I see em. that is all nothing more nothing less. I don't expect anyone to change. People should not expect me to either. After all to me, we are talking about killing a human life.
 
I know. I was responding to your response and your ideas on the comparison but whatever.

Well then let's keep things in context. We were talking about the semantic involved, not the core issues. Geesh.
 
I don't think such semantic somersaults are necessary when you have two adults discussing a topic with dedication to honesty. When I say I am prochoice, you know exactly what that means and when you say you are prolife, I know exactly what you mean. :shrug:

True, but too often the peanut gallery weighs in and muddies up the waters with the labels "pro choice" or "pro life". One thing that really irks me is when someone accuses another of being a "fundy" because they oppose abortion, when there are a whole lot of people that oppose on grounds that have nothing to do with religion, such as myself.
 
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