North Korean Rocket fails, hours after claiming success.

BulletWounD · Apr 6, 2009

Khayembii Communique said:
That's called the working class.

Wrong. The working class in the US and S. Korea makes good money and are perfectly capable of success. A lot of them choose not to and a lot of them are workers because that's their best role in society. They would still be workers in a socialist society. Anything else would be illogical. This dream that the less capable would suddenly become more capable has been quashed in every socialist experiment ever.

They also have the same individual autonomy as everybody else and, once again, worst comes to worst they can always leave.

Triad · Apr 6, 2009

The missile test did the two things it was intended to do.

1. Tested their missile.
2. Made a joke out of the "west".

IMO the whole "failure" routine being pushed is 100% to excuse the inaction the "west"(esp Obama) intend to take in reaction.
IOW its political ass coverage..not reality.

thabigred · Apr 7, 2009

creativedreams said:
All america is trying to do is make the world a safer, better place by promoting free elections by these countries citizens so that the power and direction of their country is in the votes of the people.

These dictators would rather see their people suffer than to pass on the throne to a new leader.

A group of a few live like gods while the rest of their country are military slaves

It is not our place to judge the Norks way they do business, if it wasn't north korea doing this it would be some other nation. Look the world is a pretty ****ed up place, and until they threaten America, nothing gives us the right to accpet anything from them.

UtahBill said:
How has North Korea been bullied? By giving them food? They starve their own people so they will have funds for a "communications" satellite, which I doubt ever existed in the first place. The load was likely a dummy/dudd. Now they can fire off another and claim that it is a second try to get their own satellite in orbit.
Beats me why an isolationist govt like NK wants to communicate with the rest of the world, only dear leader gets to view the online porn....

During the famine in the late 90's in North Korea, it was estimated that about 600,000 people died from starvation. Compared to the famine in the early part of the century in China, those were small numbers. I remind you Mao was a good friend of many US presidents. Why is China exempt from potical strife? How come we didn't go kick there ass when the took Tibet in 49'?

I'll tell you why, because America picks it's battles, it's a bunch of hypocritical bull**** that all you idiots feed into.

How about you save the the hypocritical authoritarian response to North Korea conflict?

According to a study done in 1999, 300,000 Americans will die every year from obesity.

What is better a nation of people that won't stop shoving there mouths full of food or a nation that is afraid the next powers to be will pick a fight with them.

I will explain again why North Korea is doing what they do now. In the early part of the century they almost were conquered by China and Japan, they constantly got **** from the Russians and finally in a desperate attempt to lash out against communism, America kicked there ass in the 60's.

How can a country open up to be non-isolationist when they have been threatened to be conquered by large super powers?

Seriously Americans act as if that if it hasn't happened within the past 10 years, the country has no right to feel threatened by something.

All we are doing is provoking them to push harder to developing a missile that can reach the US, and guess what. It's not like they are re-inventing the wheel here, it would do Americans a lot of good to just leave the norks alone.

UtahBill · Apr 7, 2009

thabigred said:
It is not our place to judge the Norks way they do business, if it wasn't north korea doing this it would be some other nation. Look the world is a pretty ****ed up place, and until they threaten America, nothing gives us the right to accpet anything from them.

During the famine in the late 90's in North Korea, it was estimated that about 600,000 people died from starvation. Compared to the famine in the early part of the century in China, those were small numbers. I remind you Mao was a good friend of many US presidents. Why is China exempt from potical strife? How come we didn't go kick there ass when the took Tibet in 49'?

I'll tell you why, because America picks it's battles, it's a bunch of hypocritical bull**** that all you idiots feed into.

How about you save the the hypocritical authoritarian response to North Korea conflict?

According to a study done in 1999, 300,000 Americans will die every year from obesity.

What is better a nation of people that won't stop shoving there mouths full of food or a nation that is afraid the next powers to be will pick a fight with them.

I will explain again why North Korea is doing what they do now. In the early part of the century they almost were conquered by China and Japan, they constantly got **** from the Russians and finally in a desperate attempt to lash out against communism, America kicked there ass in the 60's.

How can a country open up to be non-isolationist when they have been threatened to be conquered by large super powers?

Seriously Americans act as if that if it hasn't happened within the past 10 years, the country has no right to feel threatened by something.

All we are doing is provoking them to push harder to developing a missile that can reach the US, and guess what. It's not like they are re-inventing the wheel here, it would do Americans a lot of good to just leave the norks alone.

yeah, the USA is a horrible place, but still far ahead of most other countires. People risk their lives to get OUT of their countries and INTO the USA.

thabigred · Apr 7, 2009

UtahBill said:
yeah, the USA is a horrible place, but still far ahead of most other countires. People risk their lives to get OUT of their countries and INTO the USA.

What does that have to do with anything?

Plently of democratic capitalistic nations fail there countries all the time, look at CAPITALIST DEMOCRATIC Mexico. People are leaving in the thousands every year in search for better life in America.

They under produce grain for there people and are forced to import it just like North Korea imports grain from China.

Really save me the hypocritical obvious response.

North Korea is the Mexico of Asia.

Who are we to judge them?

BulletWounD · Apr 7, 2009

thabigred said:
It is not our place to judge the Norks way they do business, if it wasn't north korea doing this it would be some other nation. Look the world is a pretty ****ed up place, and until they threaten America, nothing gives us the right to accpet anything from them.

During the famine in the late 90's in North Korea, it was estimated that about 600,000 people died from starvation. Compared to the famine in the early part of the century in China, those were small numbers. I remind you Mao was a good friend of many US presidents. Why is China exempt from potical strife? How come we didn't go kick there ass when the took Tibet in 49'?

In 1949 we were in no place to start another war, especially not with China and by proxy the Soviet Union. We were still licking our wounds from the last one. Mao was never a "friend" of the US until Nixon, Kissinger, and their Real Politik gang came into power. Nixon accepted the PRC's ludicrous "one China" policy, contrary to overwhelming public opinion.

I'll tell you why, because America picks it's battles, it's a bunch of hypocritical bull**** that all you idiots feed into.

"Discretion is the better part of valor."

How about you save the the hypocritical authoritarian response to North Korea conflict?

According to a study done in 1999, 300,000 Americans will die every year from obesity.

The government of the US has no power over how much people eat. This isn't North Korea ya know. :roll:

What is better a nation of people that won't stop shoving there mouths full of food or a nation that is afraid the next powers to be will pick a fight with them.

They're not mutually exclusive, ya know.

I will explain again why North Korea is doing what they do now. In the early part of the century they almost were conquered by China and Japan, they constantly got **** from the Russians and finally in a desperate attempt to lash out against communism, America kicked there ass in the 60's.

You are deluded. The Soviets BUILT the DPRK. The Soviets filled in the vacuum after the Japanese withdrawal from the peninsula. If it weren't for the presence of US forces, the whole peninsula would be in the same disgusting totalitarian state as the DPRK. The DPRK started the Korean War. They launched an attack against the RoK despite the fact that the regimes of China and Russia did not want them to because they did not want to be drawn into a broader conflict with the United States. And the war was in the 50's, not the 60's.

How can a country open up to be non-isolationist when they have been threatened to be conquered by large super powers?

Who's threatened that?

Seriously Americans act as if that if it hasn't happened within the past 10 years, the country has no right to feel threatened by something.

All we are doing is provoking them to push harder to developing a missile that can reach the US, and guess what.

Please elaborate.

It's not like they are re-inventing the wheel here, it would do Americans a lot of good to just leave the norks alone.

Nope, most of their technology is derived from Chinese and Russian technology.

BulletWounD · Apr 7, 2009

thabigred said:
What does that have to do with anything?

Plently of democratic capitalistic nations fail there countries all the time, look at CAPITALIST DEMOCRATIC Mexico. People are leaving in the thousands every year in search for better life in America.

The Mexican government is corrupt, top to bottom.

They under produce grain for there people and are forced to import it just like North Korea imports grain from China.

There's nothing wrong with importing food. The problem with the DPRK is they've destroyed their economy to such an extent that they need HANDOUTS to survive. They are living off of state welfare.

Really save me the hypocritical obvious response.

North Korea is the Mexico of Asia.

Who are we to judge them?

I'm sorry. This is an insane position.

Vader · Apr 7, 2009

Khayembii Communique said:
I was just offering a little perspective on the North Korean issue, and find it comical that many westerners - typically Americans - attempt to paint North Korea as this totalitarian prison nation filled with ultra-nationalist lemmings led by a clinically insane leader bent on destroying/taking over the world.

As it happens ... that is an accurate description of North Korea.

UtahBill · Apr 8, 2009

thabigred said:
What does that have to do with anything?

Plently of democratic capitalistic nations fail there countries all the time, look at CAPITALIST DEMOCRATIC Mexico. People are leaving in the thousands every year in search for better life in America.

They under produce grain for there people and are forced to import it just like North Korea imports grain from China.

Really save me the hypocritical obvious response.

North Korea is the Mexico of Asia.

Who are we to judge them?

Mexico "under produces" grain because its climate is ill suited for grain, except corn. Canada and the northern parts of the USA are great places to grow grains like wheat, oats, barley, etc. Rice needs a LOT of water, like in southeast Texas, Louisiana, very wet areas. I suppose Mexico has a FEW places like that.
I thought everybody knew that....
And we are not judging THEM, we are judging the minority in power who enslave their own people.
Yes, Americans tend to be fat. It is called discretionary income, money above and beyond the minimal needs for survival. IF we didn't have extra income, we couldn't donate money to feed so many starving people all over the world. Is Dear Leader exporting anything to help others?

thabigred · Apr 8, 2009

BulletWounD said:
The government of the US has no power over how much people eat. This isn't North Korea ya know. :roll:

Under the Commerce Clause in the 10th Amendment, the Federal government has the right to ban the sale and possession of any good no matter what it's uses. So yes if the government wanted to, they could under the powers of the constitution limit you from eating what you want.

In 1949 we were in no place to start another war, especially not with China and by proxy the Soviet Union. We were still licking our wounds from the last one. Mao was never a "friend" of the US until Nixon, Kissinger, and their Real Politik gang came into power. Nixon accepted the PRC's ludicrous "one China" policy, contrary to overwhelming public opinion.

I'm sorry, I got Mao mixed up with Stalin for a second

.

Lets just take a look at another communist leader who saw millions die from famine and built up a grand military. Where were the western super-powers when Stalin was building his empire?

They were on the sidelines praising Stalin. Both Truman and Churchill praised Stalin, most notably Churchill.

Please elaborate

Think of it along these lines, America is the cat and NK is the mouse. Eventually that mouse will attack with all it's got if you back them into a corner far enough. By expecting them to not develop the same weaponry most of there neighboring countries already have stockpiled, they will only push towards the weaponry even harder.

"Discretion is the better part of valor."

"Speak softly and carry a big stick, and you will go far."

America is not speaking softly are they.

They are breaking the first rule to an important foreign policy.

BulletWounD · Apr 8, 2009

thabigred said:
Under the Commerce Clause in the 10th Amendment, the Federal government has the right to ban the sale and possession of any good no matter what it's uses. So yes if the government wanted to, they could under the powers of the constitution limit you from eating what you want.

Are you trolling or do you believe this?

I'm sorry, I got Mao mixed up with Stalin for a second.

Stalin was an Ally in the war against the Nazis. Our flaw was that we trusted him too much.

Lets just take a look at another communist leader who saw millions die from famine and built up a grand military. Where were the western super-powers when Stalin was building his empire?

Fighting him to the best of our ability....

They were on the sidelines praising Stalin. Both Truman and Churchill praised Stalin, most notably Churchill.

Think of it along these lines, America is the cat and NK is the mouse. Eventually that mouse will attack with all it's got if you back them into a corner far enough. By expecting them to not develop the same weaponry most of there neighboring countries already have stockpiled, they will only push towards the weaponry even harder.

We haven't "backed them up into a corner." They've backed THEMSELVES up into a corner.

"Speak softly and carry a big stick, and you will go far."

America is not speaking softly are they.

They are breaking the first rule to an important foreign policy.

Sure we are. Our rhetoric is pretty tame compared to the KWP's "smash the warmonger," "turn seoul to ashes" rhetoric.

thabigred · Apr 8, 2009

UtahBill said:
Mexico "under produces" grain because its climate is ill suited for grain, except corn. Canada and the northern parts of the USA are great places to grow grains like wheat, oats, barley, etc. Rice needs a LOT of water, like in southeast Texas, Louisiana, very wet areas. I suppose Mexico has a FEW places like that.
I thought everybody knew that....
And we are not judging THEM, we are judging the minority in power who enslave their own people.
Yes, Americans tend to be fat. It is called discretionary income, money above and beyond the minimal needs for survival. IF we didn't have extra income, we couldn't donate money to feed so many starving people all over the world. Is Dear Leader exporting anything to help others?

Actually Mexico could be one of the biggest producers of grain in the world, except when Norman Borlaug went down to Mexico to teach there people to grow grain, the Mexican people denied him the ability to teach him his techniques. Norman after that decided to go to formerly famine struck China and taught them how to produce grain, giving them such better ability to grow grain that they are now the second largest producer of it in the world.

I thought EVERYBODY knew that.

Mexico is a country that has been stuck with a lot of dumb leaders, democratically voted in by a uneducated populous.

Mexico is a shining example to show that democracy is not always best bet, and that capitalism cannot always bring you out of third world living conditions.

All I was trying to make a point of is that America seems comparable numbers in deaths each year through data. Actually if you add up how many people die from starvation in NK compared to obesity in US, more people die from obesity each year. That means how our country and our people conduct there business results in thousands of preventable deaths. Does that give the right for a superpower to come into the united states and expect change in how we conduct business.

Comparably the US spends much more of it's budget on military spending.

Maybe that money could be cut to find ways to cut death rate of obesity in US.

Is it fair for the EU to sanction the US to do this?

thabigred · Apr 8, 2009

BulletWounD said:
Are you trolling or do you believe this?

We haven't "backed them up into a corner." They've backed THEMSELVES up into a corner.

Sure we are. Our rhetoric is pretty tame compared to the KWP's "smash the warmonger," "turn seoul to ashes" rhetoric.

Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How about you read the Clause?

You obviously don't understand that part of the amendment if you are claiming I am trolling.

It doesn't matter if our rhetoric is tame, it is not our position to have rhetoric on the issue at all.

I love the V for Vendetta avatar, I always thought V was a slight hypocrite. I mean he based his whole campaign around the 5th of November. I mean V's whole stiq was that he was against totalitarianism, yet he followed Guy Fawkes who fought for a totalitarian religion.

Orion · Apr 8, 2009

Khayembii Communique said:
I was just offering a little perspective on the North Korean issue, and find it comical that many westerners - typically Americans - attempt to paint North Korea as this totalitarian prison nation filled with ultra-nationalist lemmings led by a clinically insane leader bent on destroying/taking over the world.

I usually give your thoughts on various governments a chance because there are times when I actually agree, but this time you are just plain wrong I'm afraid. The NK government is just that: totalitarian. There are executions there daily and evidence of this practice has been smuggled out by brave journalists who have put their lives on the line to show the world the kinds of atrocities taking place under the regime. You can't even look at an officer the wrong way, or have your lights on at night, without being taken out back and shot.

The executions that take place there are on Stalinist levels. People are accused of being dissenters for no reason at all, and then are executed publically as examples. In 2002 someone put a poster up under a bridge (where barely anyone could see it) that openly criticized the regime and said that change must come. They never found the person who posted it, but they did round up over a hundred people and shot them in anger. This is the kind of mentality we are dealing with.

If China weren't protecting NK, their government would be dust already.

cesar · Apr 8, 2009

American · Apr 8, 2009

BulletWounD said:
What do you call it when you work for pretty much nothing, have no personal autonomy, and cannot leave, while your masters live lavish lives in their palaces and mansions?

"It had long been realized that the only secure basis for oligarchy is collectivism. Wealth and privilege are most easily defended when they are possessed jointly. The so-called 'abolition of private property' meant in effect the concentration of property in far fewer hands than before...with the result, forseen and intended beforehand, that economic inequality has been made permanent." -George Orwell [1984]

Marriage?

thabigred · Apr 8, 2009

BulletWounD said:
The Mexican government is corrupt, top to bottom.

There's nothing wrong with importing food. The problem with the DPRK is they've destroyed their economy to such an extent that they need HANDOUTS to survive. They are living off of state welfare.

I'm sorry. This is an insane position.

Yeah the mexican government is corrupt, but they all were democratically voted in, so it is the mexican people's own fault for bad leadership. Mexico was given the chance to become one of the largest produces of grain in the world, and they turned it down. They don't destroy there economy, but they openly deny tools for a successful economy.

The economic woes in North Korea happened when there main economic partner, the soviet union dismantled. If you look at the time line, that is around the time the famine started.

Since then North Korea has opened up SEZ's(Special Economic Zones) with South Korea.

North Korea is trying, and those handouts were because America dismantled there key economic partner so layoff.

North Korea is not this isolationist country as many American's think, and the more we pressure them to conform to our ideals the more they will push away from what needs to be done.

BulletWounD · Apr 8, 2009

thabigred said:
Yeah the mexican government is corrupt, but they all were democratically voted in, so it is the mexican people's own fault for bad leadership. Mexico was given the chance to become one of the largest produces of grain in the world, and they turned it down. They don't destroy there economy, but they openly deny tools for a successful economy.

Could you elaborate on this further?

The economic woes in North Korea happened when there main economic partner, the soviet union dismantled. If you look at the time line, that is around the time the famine started.

Since then North Korea has opened up SEZ's(Special Economic Zones) with South Korea.

True, but I see the SEZ as a huge risk due to investment security. The tyrants in Pyongyang could nationalize it at any time.

North Korea is trying, and those handouts were because America dismantled there key economic partner so layoff.

They were getting handouts from the Soviets too. If it weren't for the handouts from the Soviets, NK would be nothing. China has taken the role of the teet upon which the North Koreans suck. Some nations give them aid out of fear (terrorism).

North Korea is not this isolationist country as many American's think, and the more we pressure them to conform to our ideals the more they will push away from what needs to be done.

Actually, yes they are. Their state policy of "Juche" or "self-reliance" dictates that they not engage in trade to any meaningful extent. Of course their willingness to accept state welfare makes a mockery of "self-reliance."

UtahBill · Apr 8, 2009

thabigred said:
Yeah the mexican government is corrupt, but they all were democratically voted in, so it is the mexican people's own fault for bad leadership. Mexico was given the chance to become one of the largest produces of grain in the world, and they turned it down. They don't destroy there economy, but they openly deny tools for a successful economy.

North Korea is trying, and those handouts were because America dismantled there key economic partner so layoff.

North Korea is not this isolationist country as many American's think, and the more we pressure them to conform to our ideals the more they will push away from what needs to be done.

You are long on rhetoric and short on substance. Got some links about your grain claim? The 2 grains that Mexico CAN grow are corn and rice. As I said, and you ignored, oats, wheat and barley and similar grains need a climate that isn't found in Mexico, at least not enough to sustain those grain crops in the quantites needed.
As for the USA dismantling their key economic partner, there is NOTHING stopping the Russian states, former members of the USSR, etc. from trading with NK, except that the NK nation has precious little to export in trade for their needed imports...

thabigred · Apr 8, 2009

UtahBill said:
You are long on rhetoric and short on substance. Got some links about your grain claim? The 2 grains that Mexico CAN grow are corn and rice. As I said, and you ignored, oats, wheat and barley and similar grains need a climate that isn't found in Mexico, at least not enough to sustain those grain crops in the quantites needed.
As for the USA dismantling their key economic partner, there is NOTHING stopping the Russian states, former members of the USSR, etc. from trading with NK, except that the NK nation has precious little to export in trade for their needed imports...

In 1944 Norman Borlaug arrived in Mexico and worked there developing his methods to better produce grain. After he perfected his craft he tried to teach the Mexican people his craft and they denied him, saying his ideas were stupid. Norman taught American Farmers his craft and later went to China and India teaching those countries how they could reduce physical labor for grain to almost nothing. At this moment there are statues riddled throughout China and India and he received the world food prize and is known as the father of the green revolution. These are all common facts that anyone who educate themselves on the subject could fine very easily with google.

Norman Borlaug in Mexico growing wheat

Dr. Norman E. Borlaug - 20th Century Lessons for the 21st Century World

Read the mexico section.

After Norman taught them to grow the wheat and allowed them to become self sufficient, the scrapped his teachings and went back to the old rule of thought.

Instead of being self sufficient, Mexico is now one of the largest importers of grain.

Also about the USSR, you are half right, sure no one is physically stopping them, but actually there are forces keeping them from doing business with each other. Many of the former soviet states have regressed economically and Russia is a shell of it's former self.

So yes there are things impeding economic growth in North Korea and America is a direct involvement to there economic woes. We had our hands all over soviet unions dismantling, we defeated that empire. All those small countries that did business with USSR are hurting because of it.

BulletWounD said:
Could you elaborate on this further?

True, but I see the SEZ as a huge risk due to investment security. The tyrants in Pyongyang could nationalize it at any time.

They were getting handouts from the Soviets too. If it weren't for the handouts from the Soviets, NK would be nothing. China has taken the role of the teet upon which the North Koreans suck. Some nations give them aid out of fear (terrorism).

Actually, yes they are. Their state policy of "Juche" or "self-reliance" dictates that they not engage in trade to any meaningful extent. Of course their willingness to accept state welfare makes a mockery of "self-reliance."

I think I elaborated in the post above this one. Mexico is not as welcoming to new ideas, especially when some of them seem like the obviously good for them to do so.

As for the tyrants in Pyongyang nationalizing it, what incentive would they have to nationalize the SEZ? You are obviously biased because they are communist, it shows in your posts. You can't see anything good coming from something you don't agree with.

The rest of what you said is hysterical, as I said before you can't see anything good coming from something you don't agree with. All you promote about North Korea is propaganda, stuff that has no bases in actual events.

BulletWounD · Apr 8, 2009

thabigred said:
In 1944 Norman Borlaug arrived in Mexico and worked there developing his methods to better produce grain. After he perfected his craft he tried to teach the Mexican people his craft and they denied him, saying his ideas were stupid. Norman taught American Farmers his craft and later went to China and India teaching those countries how they could reduce physical labor for grain to almost nothing. At this moment there are statues riddled throughout China and India and he received the world food prize and is known as the father of the green revolution. These are all common facts that anyone who educate themselves on the subject could fine very easily with google.

Norman Borlaug in Mexico growing wheat

Dr. Norman E. Borlaug - 20th Century Lessons for the 21st Century World

Read the mexico section.

After Norman taught them to grow the wheat and allowed them to become self sufficient, the scrapped his teachings and went back to the old rule of thought.

Instead of being self sufficient, Mexico is now one of the largest importers of grain.

This is their prerogative. I'm sure there are factors which make it a better solution to import wheat that to produce it indigenously (climate, soil, irrigation, etc.)

Also about the USSR, you are half right, sure no one is physically stopping them, but actually there are forces keeping them from doing business with each other. Many of the former soviet states have regressed economically and Russia is a shell of it's former self.

Many of these regimes are corrupt, with elements that are preventing the liberalization necessary for success.

So yes there are things impeding economic growth in North Korea and America is a direct involvement to there economic woes. We had our hands all over soviet unions dismantling, we defeated that empire. All those small countries that did business with USSR are hurting because of it.

To an extent, we played a part. But most of the work was done by the leaders of the USSR. Kruschev, Gorbachev, and Yeltsin all progressively liberalized Russia because they could see that they could never compete with the free market system. The problem is the corrupt and centralized economy that has been left in place of the state owned enterprises.

I think I elaborated in the post above this one. Mexico is not as welcoming to new ideas, especially when some of them seem like the obviously good for them to do so.

That's their prerogative.

As for the tyrants in Pyongyang nationalizing it, what incentive would they have to nationalize the SEZ? You are obviously biased because they are communist, it shows in your posts. You can't see anything good coming from something you don't agree with.

Virtually nothing good comes out of NK - just poverty and death. Of course there's the risk that they'll nationalize the assets in the SEZ. It doesn't really matter "why" they decide to do it, the fact that NK is controlled by a totalitarian regime means they can do whatever the hell they want. It'd be idiotic not to take this into account if you're considering investing there.

The rest of what you said is hysterical, as I said before you can't see anything good coming from something you don't agree with. All you promote about North Korea is propaganda, stuff that has no bases in actual events.

Please tell me exactly what I've said that's "hysterical" or "propaganda." Wouldn't you agree that making threats to your neighbors, spending most of your money on the military, and then building a nuclear program at the expense of your people only to bargain it away for aid qualifies as terrorism? I do. It's the equivalent of a terrorist with a bomb jacket on, threating to blow himself up if you don't give him money. People are too afraid to not give him money for fear that he'll blow himself up and people are too afraid to shoot him for fear that they'll detonate the bomb.

This post is so inane it's not even worth addressing. To think, you call yourself a libertarian. Take off the mask.

Edit: F it. I addressed it.

UtahBill · Apr 8, 2009

thabigred said:
In 1944 Norman Borlaug arrived in Mexico and worked there developing his methods to better produce grain. After he perfected his craft he tried to teach the Mexican people his craft and they denied him, saying his ideas were stupid. Norman taught American Farmers his craft and later went to China and India teaching those countries how they could reduce physical labor for grain to almost nothing. At this moment there are statues riddled throughout China and India and he received the world food prize and is known as the father of the green revolution. These are all common facts that anyone who educate themselves on the subject could fine very easily with google.

Norman Borlaug in Mexico growing wheat

Dr. Norman E. Borlaug - 20th Century Lessons for the 21st Century World

Read the mexico section.

After Norman taught them to grow the wheat and allowed them to become self sufficient, the scrapped his teachings and went back to the old rule of thought.

Instead of being self sufficient, Mexico is now one of the largest importers of grain.

Also about the USSR, you are half right, sure no one is physically stopping them, but actually there are forces keeping them from doing business with each other. Many of the former soviet states have regressed economically and Russia is a shell of it's former self.

So yes there are things impeding economic growth in North Korea and America is a direct involvement to there economic woes. We had our hands all over soviet unions dismantling, we defeated that empire. All those small countries that did business with USSR are hurting because of it.

I think I elaborated in the post above this one. Mexico is not as welcoming to new ideas, especially when some of them seem like the obviously good for them to do so.

As for the tyrants in Pyongyang nationalizing it, what incentive would they have to nationalize the SEZ? You are obviously biased because they are communist, it shows in your posts. You can't see anything good coming from something you don't agree with.

The rest of what you said is hysterical, as I said before you can't see anything good coming from something you don't agree with. All you promote about North Korea is propaganda, stuff that has no bases in actual events.

Well, I didn't read ALL of it, but what I read said that Mexico went from being an importer of wheat, to an exporter. So how does that make them an under producer? I assumed you were correct on that and offered up information I thought was correct, it seems we are both wrong, unless you have more long winded posts to claim things not in the least related to the OP...

kaya'08 · Apr 8, 2009

UtahBill said:
Well, I didn't read ALL of it, but what I read said that Mexico went from being an importer of wheat, to an exporter. So how does that make them an under producer? I assumed you were correct on that and offered up information I thought was correct, it seems we are both wrong, unless you have more long winded posts to claim things not in the least related to the OP...

Read:

Instead of being self sufficient, Mexico is now one of the largest importers of grain.

(ten words)

thabigred · Apr 8, 2009

UtahBill said:
Well, I didn't read ALL of it, but what I read said that Mexico went from being an importer of wheat, to an exporter. So how does that make them an under producer? I assumed you were correct on that and offered up information I thought was correct, it seems we are both wrong, unless you have more long winded posts to claim things not in the least related to the OP...

They stopped using Norman Borlaugs techniques soon after, I do not know why but most biologist's are baffled at Mexicans resistance to reforms in there agriculture industry.

I brought this up because I was trying to show how many other nations are just as bad if not worse than North Korea about famines and feeding there people. The famine in North Korea was a direct result to inability to pay for agriculure after soviet Union was dismantled.

With the USSR dismantled and that steady supply of economic advantages in North Korea, the people starved as they could not afford to grow enough crops or import enough food.

Since America was the key player in the USSR dismantling, it makes since why the Norks would want to lash out against us. We cut off one of there largest means of income, and with it there people starved.

This idea that the people are starving because of long range missile research is propaganda bull****. North Korea is doing the same thing Germany did after WWI, they are rushing to build weapons to lash out at those who threatened there economy and expect unfair agreements to be passed.

BulletWounD · Apr 8, 2009

thabigred said:
They stopped using Norman Borlaugs techniques soon after, I do not know why but most biologist's are baffled at Mexicans resistance to reforms in there agriculture industry.

I brought this up because I was trying to show how many other nations are just as bad if not worse than North Korea about famines and feeding there people. The famine in North Korea was a direct result to inability to pay for agriculure after soviet Union was dismantled.

With the USSR dismantled and that steady supply of economic advantages in North Korea, the people starved as they could not afford to grow enough crops or import enough food.

Since America was the key player in the USSR dismantling, it makes since why the Norks would want to lash out against us. We cut off one of there largest means of income, and with it there people starved.

This idea that the people are starving because of long range missile research is propaganda bull****. North Korea is doing the same thing Germany did after WWI, they are rushing to build weapons to lash out at those who threatened there economy and expect unfair agreements to be passed.

Blah blah blah... Blame America. It's always America or "the capitalists." Poor, beleaguered little tyrants... Don't give me this ****. NK decided it was wise to unilaterally invade the south. Now NK has a "military first" policy which places the military ahead of its people. That's not our fault.

North Korean Rocket fails, hours after claiming success.

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