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Man dies during G20 protests in London

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
You show a photo of some violent thug smashing a peaceful, well-behaved window and then complain that the COPS are being vicious?

Was the bleeding broad a victim of the evil window, or the violent thug?
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that window must have hit him first.....after all, they were pacifist protestors...
 
Laila said:
And you sound like a retard who has no idea what happened. STFU and leave it for those who actually understand what happened to talk.

No enviromental protestor damaged property, that was the financial protestors. The enviromentals were the most peaceful and caused no trouble until the riot police showed up and started chucking people around.

Who the **** are these eco terrorists? Are you making things up? :roll:
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And now explain why the cop on the scene should be bothered to sort out those kinder gentler poor little "environmental" protesters from the evil viscious violent "financial" protesters, when they're only concerned with clearing the streets because one group or the other turned violent?

Once the cops give the order to clear the streets, the people comply, or they're part of the problem.
 
Laila said:
Forcibly removing and hurting the people sitting down.
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If they've been ordered to get off their asses and clear out, they're in violation of the definition of "lawful assembly", and can be hauled off like sacks of trash.
 
Laila said:
Millions of people are losing their jobs inside UK and you wouldn't label that a crisis?
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Not to me.

The cause of the problem is the socialist policies most of those workers support. So it sounds nothing but fair, to me.

Laila said:
Our currency is losing value,
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Y'all demand your government spend more money than it has, what do you expect will happen? Same thing's going to be happening here, soon enough.

Laila said:
property market is down, banks are playing around with our money. Just by our national debt Brown has put us in. Every person in the country will be over 20 grand in debt - including children.
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Only Brown? Not his predecessors, too?

Laila said:
Perhaps it is not a crisis to you but to me it is
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It's still not a crisis. It's evolution in action. If your society manages to evolve away from the socialist agendas you've been following, you'll do well.

Otherwise, you won't.

That's the crisis, not the economic fooforaw.
 
Laila said:
Political parties in UK differ from US or even Europe/US.
Green party is a enviromental political party
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Okie dokie...let's make this easier for you: All "environmental" political movements and parties are socialist parties.

No exceptions.
 
UtahBill said:
and the govt has the right to control such, or do you prefer anarchy? are you old enough t remember the Watts riots?
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Government has no rights, government is not an individual and hence can possess no rights. Government has granted duty and power, but not rights. The government is not to act against the rights and liberties of the individual. Thus the government does not have the right to control such acts. They have the responsibility and duty to act when the rights of others are infringed upon; riots, property damage, assault, etc. But that's it, they don't have the lawful ability to prevent assembly, association, redress, and protest less the rights of others are being infringed upon.

I do not prefer anarchy, but I do prefer freedom.
 
talloulou said:
All that becomes moot when the crowd starts destroying downtown. Once windows start breaking, businesses start getting destroyed, etc the police then have the right to come and bust up the assembly as it is no longer "peaceful" by any stretch of the imagination. There is no right to vandalize, loot, spray paint, etc. None. The police have an obligation to protect property owners from unlawful chaotic destruction. The protesters could come down hard on the anarchists and/or chaos lovers who see any and every protest as an opportunity to go hog wild with abandon but more often than not the protesters are seen cheering the goofs on and hiding/protecting the unlawful persons in their midst.
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Aye, this is true. My contention was needing government permit to protest, as to protest is innate and inalienable right. I don't think you need permission to exercise rights. When the rights of others are infringed upon, then yes the government is authorized to intercede, as is most likely the case here. But in general, assembly, association, redress, and protest are innate and inalienable rights and should be recognized in their full.
 
Ikari said:
Aye, this is true. My contention was needing government permit to protest, as to protest is innate and inalienable right. I don't think you need permission to exercise rights. When the rights of others are infringed upon, then yes the government is authorized to intercede, as is most likely the case here. But in general, assembly, association, redress, and protest are innate and inalienable rights and should be recognized in their full.
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The permit is necessary for the protection of the people. If the cops are not forewarned about big assemblies of people they will not be prepared to come in and control the situation should it get out of hand. I don't see the permit process as a hindrance to the right of peaceful assembly. It's more like a "heads up" so preparations can be made for adequate personnel for crowd control and medics and what not. It's important that certain routes be kept clear so fire, police, and ambulance, can still travel freely. If permits were being denied in large numbers I'd see your point. But to the best of my knowledge these permits are easy, perhaps too easy, to get. They don't refuse to hand out a permit very often. What they commonly do is place restrictions on how much of the street you may block, which streets you may block, etc and this is for the safety of all. I can not imagine the mess we would be in if these protests happened without the cities being prepared for them, with no advance notice, and limited personnel on duty to handle the crowds.
 
I don't like the idea of permits because permits are a form of permission. And if something is a right, you shouldn't have to ask permission from the government to exercise it. I take that stance with all rights, including guns.
 
Ikari said:
I don't like the idea of permits because permits are a form of permission. And if something is a right, you shouldn't have to ask permission from the government to exercise it. I take that stance with all rights, including guns.
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Well that's just impractical. I have a right to own property. Doesn't mean I don't need to jump through all the hoops to buy it and have it officiated. My children have a right to free schooling. Doesn't mean I can just drop them off at any school with no notice and not fill out the proper documents.

Large protests need to have some limits imposed on them for practical reasons. Left to their own devices protesters would be only to happy to block off all major accesses into or out of a main downtown area. They'd happily destroy cops and their cop cars if the police were short staffed due to little notice. Meanwhile non-protesting property owners and other citizens would take the city to task for not having prepared adequately for controlling crowds, leaving paths for emergency vehicles, property damage, etc.

It's one thing to spout unrealistic ideals and another thing to actually have to govern, regulate, and run a city. :mrgreen:
 
talloulou said:
Well that's just impractical. I have a right to own property. Doesn't mean I don't need to jump through all the hoops to buy it and have it officiated. My children have a right to free schooling. Doesn't mean I can just drop them off at any school with no notice and not fill out the proper documents.

Large protests need to have some limits imposed on them for practical reasons. Left to their own devices protesters would be only to happy to block off all major accesses into or out of a main downtown area. They'd happily destroy cops and their cop cars if the police were short staffed due to little notice. Meanwhile non-protesting property owners and other citizens would take the city to task for not having prepared adequately for controlling crowds, leaving paths for emergency vehicles, property damage, etc.

It's one thing to spout unrealistic ideals and another thing to actually have to govern, regulate, and run a city. :mrgreen:
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It applies to all kinds of large gatherings, not just protests. In Somerset,WI they used to( and might still ) have the Ozzfest tour. A town of 1200 people, with 50,000 more coming into their town. If there was no permit outlining the time and place for the concert, Ozzy and his crew and all the other bands could just set up on the one road, block all the traffic for 2 days or however long it takes to set up, play, and tear down. Nobody in that town is going to want that.
 
WI Crippler said:
It applies to all kinds of large gatherings, not just protests. In Somerset,WI they used to( and might still ) have the Ozzfest tour. A town of 1200 people, with 50,000 more coming into their town. If there was no permit outlining the time and place for the concert, Ozzy and his crew and all the other bands could just set up on the one road, block all the traffic for 2 days or however long it takes to set up, play, and tear down. Nobody in that town is going to want that.
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True. I need a permit for block parties and garage sales. Any potential large gathering requires a "heads up."
 
Laila said:
The police was so vicious yesterday, unbelieveable
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Pause for a moment everybody. I was there, and none of it was real blood. They put red paint on there faces and told the media reporters that the police had assualted them. Low, misguiding propaganda against the police. Dont buy it for a second that it's real blood. I couldnt believe me eyes. They where literally going around with cans and cans of red paint and asking people if they wanted some. The police didnt lay a finger on anybody and when they did they sure as hell didnt beat them to the point there heads where split open and bleeding. For god sake this is Britain. We are the centre of political correctness and the police uphold those standards.
The only person i saw who was actually bleeding got assualted by a guy in the crowd. Plus, there not all tree hugging anti-carbon retards, most of them there where communists.
 
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Maybe it's impractical, but I think emphasis must be placed on the rights of the individual. It's the acknowledgment of these rights which can really lead to the proper limitations and restrictions placed upon government. If we think of things as nothing more than privilege granted to us by the government, then we've already lost.
 
kaya'08 said:
Pause for a moment everybody. I was there, and none of it was real blood. They put red paint on there faces and told the media reporters that the police had assualted them. Low, misguiding propaganda against the police. Dont buy it for a second that it's real blood. I couldnt believe me eyes. They where literally going around with cans and cans of red paint and asking people if they wanted some. The police didnt lay a finger on anybody and when they did they sure as hell didnt beat them to the point there heads where split open and bleeding. For god sake this is Britain. We are the centre of political correctness and the police uphold those standards.
The only person i saw who was actually bleeding got assualted by a guy in the crowd. Plus, there not all tree hugging anti-carbon retards, most of them there where communists.
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This was an organized attempt to start a riot, perhaps in their minds a prelude to a revolution.
 
kaya'08 said:
Unfortunately one thing was missing. People giving a ****.
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Well, they were exposed. If those guys dressed in police uniforms in the riot truck with the machine gun had managed to raise hell, I'd expect there would be public outrage. Woulda been one helluvan April Fools prank.
 
BulletWounD said:
Well, they were exposed. If those guys dressed in police uniforms in the riot truck with the machine gun had managed to raise hell, I'd expect there would be public outrage. Woulda been one helluvan April Fools prank.
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Even if they did raise hell, wouldnt have made much of a difference since we have normal sickos with no intentions of raising a revolution in our society anyway, doing much worse things then that. We have had many cases of normal criminals killing police officers and amuptating there arms, not to mention the little girl who got beheaded about a year ago around the parts i live in. London at night on statistics conducted by the general public show that it is more unsafe to roam the streets then it is in Baghdad. This is in western Europe dont forget, a developed country. Its pathetic. Either way these so called communists will just be dismissed as usual criminals and there cause irrelevant. The situation here as deteriorated significantly, because of a lack of community and family values within our society and kids growing up to be little asbos, not to mention the poor migrants who come here from Europe and steal for a living. England has changed significantly over the past few years and its very unfortunate.
 
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kaya'08 said:
Even if they did raise hell, wouldnt have made much of a difference since we have normal sickos with no intentions of raising a revolution in our society anyway, doing much worse things then that. We have had many cases of normal criminals killing police officers and amuptating there arms, not to mention the little girl who got beheaded about a year ago around the parts i live in. London at night on statistics conducted by the general public show that it is more unsafe to roam the streets then it is in Baghdad. This is in western Europe dont forget, a developed country. Its pathetic. Either way these so called communists will just be dismissed as usual criminals and there cause irrelevant. The situation here as deteriorated significantly, because of a lack of community and family values within our society and kids growing up to be little asbos, not to mention the poor migrants who come here from Europe and steal for a living. England has changed significantly over the past few years and its very unfortunate.
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We've had some sick **** here too. The other day a guy cut his little sister's head off on her fifth birthday as she was cutting her cake. After that he stabbed his other sister multiple times. I don't know if she lived or not. I think this is symptomatic of our cultural decline.
 
Ikari said:
Government has no rights, government is not an individual and hence can possess no rights. Government has granted duty and power, but not rights. The government is not to act against the rights and liberties of the individual. Thus the government does not have the right to control such acts. They have the responsibility and duty to act when the rights of others are infringed upon; riots, property damage, assault, etc. But that's it, they don't have the lawful ability to prevent assembly, association, redress, and protest less the rights of others are being infringed upon.

I do not prefer anarchy, but I do prefer freedom.
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The other people that want to drive their cars and ride the busses on the roads the "protesters" are marching upon have the equal right to not have their personal business intruded upon by these protesters.

Thus it's necessary for someone, and the government is the obvious body, to provide the balance so that the rights of all are respected without harm to others. Thus permits are required for large protests so the government can prepare the streets for safe pedestrian traffic, for example.

There's nothing wrong with that, the protesters have to recognize their lack of a right to intrude on other citizens just because they want to.
 
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