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Call for higher circumcision rate

StandUpChuck said:
I'd ask every man here whose had a circumcision: Would you rather have made the choice yourself and faced the procedure tomorrow, or are you glad it's over and done with and you have no memory of it?
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I would rather have been able to make the choice and not face circumcision tomorrow.


With this question, you're assuming that men with foreskins would actually choose circumcision. That's highly unlikely, since the vast majority of uncircumcised men flat-out cringe at the very idea of circumcision.

The problem here is, that the circumcised men are offered no choice, while uncircumcised men would almost never make teh choice that is made for circumcized men.

I have tons of family from Ireland, and they think it's barbaric.

But then again, they all have theirs.

The arguments about cleanliness and such are totally moot with them because, unlike the vast majority of those who support circumcision, they actually know exactly what having a foreskin entails and that teh arguments for it are almost all total bull****.

I watched a friend argue this issue with a woman who told him that it was uncleanly and that it cases urinary tract infections and such and his response was "Odd. I've never had to deal with anything remotely close to that stuff!"
 
Tucker Case said:
I would rather have been able to make the choice and not face circumcision tomorrow.


With this question, you're assuming that men with foreskins would actually choose circumcision. That's highly unlikely, since the vast majority of uncircumcised men flat-out cringe at the very idea of circumcision.

The problem here is, that the circumcised men are offered no choice, while uncircumcised men would almost never make teh choice that is made for circumcized men.

I have tons of family from Ireland, and they think it's barbaric.

But then again, they all have theirs.

The arguments about cleanliness and such are totally moot with them because, unlike the vast majority of those who support circumcision, they actually know exactly what having a foreskin entails and that teh arguments for it are almost all total bull****.

I watched a friend argue this issue with a woman who told him that it was uncleanly and that it cases urinary tract infections and such and his response was "Odd. I've never had to deal with anything remotely close to that stuff!"
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I'm reading your serious response and thinking, and then I looked up and saw your title line under your name. :2rofll:

My question would have been posed to those who have already been cut.

Europe has different ways of keeping clean than most American households. And they have different standards of clean (not saying better or worse). I don't know if one cleans their foreskin in a bidet (I hope never to find out) or IIRC most have handheld showers where one can get at various body parts easier. Europeans might not wash their hair everyday like Americans do, but they do tend to keep their genitals pretty darned clean.

I also think no matter what your customs or standards, some people are more prone to infection or other nasty genatalia issues (cannot specify as I'm eating at the moment), so for some, it may be in their best interest to take precautions that other might not have to.
 
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StandUpChuck said:
I'm reading your serious response and thinking, and then I looked up and saw your title line under your name. :2rofll:

My question would have been posed to those who have already been cut.

Europe has different ways of keeping clean than most American households. And they have different standards of clean (not saying better or worse). I don't know if one cleans their foreskin in a bidet (I hope never to find out) or IIRC most have handheld showers where one can get at various body parts easier. Europeans might not wash their hair everyday like Americans do, but they do tend to keep their genitals pretty darned clean.

I also think no matter what your customs or standards, some people are more prone to infection or other nasty genatalia issues (cannot specify as I'm eating at the moment), so for some, it may be in their best interest to take precautions that other might not have to.
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I answered the question as someone who had been snipped, and then expanded on it based on what I've heard from friends and family who have a complete wanger.
 
StandUpChuck said:
Balking is one thing. It all comes down to you (general you, not you personally) judging the decisions of other people. And it's really none of anyone's business. It comes down to parental rights to make choices for their children. I chose when to cut his hair for the first time. I choose when he gets to eat candy. I choose his bed time. I make choices on his education. I make choices on his medical care. He's in my care, and I make responsible choices for his well being.
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Judging the decisions of others? Well **** yes. If someone tells me they cut off part of their infant's body for no medical reason, then I'm going to ****ing judge them. You're goddamn right. Because he's in your care, should you have the right to cut off any other parts of his body you think he shouldn't have? Or is it just limited to part of his penis? Why not his pinky toe? Or his earlobes?

I assume you're a pro-choice woman (I am, too). We make sure women have the right to end the life of a fetus without any concern as to whether or not that child wanted their LIFE.
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Apples and oranges. One is a person, the other is not.

Yet, we're hung up here on the choice to remove a foreskin. I'd ask every man here whose had a circumcision: Would you rather have made the choice yourself and faced the procedure tomorrow, or are you glad it's over and done with and you have no memory of it?
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Why do you presume that any man would WANT to be circumcised?

I have never met a man yet who wishes he had his foreskin back.
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They never have the choice to care one way or another. They don't get to experience life with that part of their natural body to know whether or not they'd like it removed. That choice is taken away from them. And how many uncut men actually WANT to be cut? And is anyone stopping them from doing it? Why not just give men the choice and see just how important it is to them to have part of their dicks removed?
 
rivrrat said:
Judging the decisions of others? Well **** yes. If someone tells me they cut off part of their infant's body for no medical reason,
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The organization YOU entered into the discussion of things and quoted as a source of respect on this issue disagrees with you in regards to there being no medical reason. They find there is enough legitimate medical reasons (and not just life and death reasons) that it is reasonable for Parents to be allowed to make the decision based on unbiased facts and personal feelings in regards to the issues, not supporting either doing it or not doing it. You can't enter an organization into discussion as a legitimate source and then start stating things opposite of what they state as if its fact.
 
I honestly don't mind being judged. We decided to circumsize our son. I have no regrets whatsoever. People could call me a genital mutilator or a horrible parent, and I wouldn't care. I'm confident of my parenting skills, no matter how imperfect they may be at times.

(As an aside, I seriously considered terminating this pregnancy. So cutting off a piece of skin on my son's pee pee seems like NOTHING compared to what I contemplated.)
 
Zyphlin said:
The organization YOU entered into the discussion of things and quoted as a source of respect on this issue disagrees with you in regards to there being no medical reason. They find there is enough legitimate medical reasons (and not just life and death reasons) that it is reasonable for Parents to be allowed to make the decision based on unbiased facts and personal feelings in regards to the issues, not supporting either doing it or not doing it. You can't enter an organization into discussion as a legitimate source and then start stating things opposite of what they state as if its fact.
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I quoted the fact that they don't recommend it. So what if they feel it should be left up to the parents to decide for themselves whether or not to cut off parts of their children? I disagree with them wholeheartedly on the latter.

Awww... you mean if wittle johnny doesn't clean his wee wee he could get an infection? Well no **** sherlock. That's not a goddamn reason to cut off part of his dick. Jesus ****ing christ. I am still completely baffled as to how intelligent people can defend this barbaric treatment of our society's infant boys.

Hey, if you cut off your kid's pinky toes, he won't get toenail fungus on them. So, we should do that as a preventative measure just in case he's not intelligent enough to wash his ****ing feet. :roll:
 
aps said:
I honestly don't mind being judged. We decided to circumsize our son. I have no regrets whatsoever. People could call me a genital mutilator or a horrible parent, and I wouldn't care. I'm confident of my parenting skills, no matter how imperfect they may be at times.

(As an aside, I seriously considered terminating this pregnancy. So cutting off a piece of skin on my son's pee pee seems like NOTHING compared to what I contemplated.)
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And the parents of the little girls whose genitals they mutilate, I'm sure they're confident of their parenting skills too, and probably don't care if you judge them.
 
rivrrat said:
And the parents of the little girls whose genitals they mutilate, I'm sure they're confident of their parenting skills too, and probably don't care if you judge them.
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You are so over-the-top on this issue that I don't even care what you say anymore on this subject matter. You can compare boys to girls, and it means NOTHING to me. *yawn*
 
aps said:
You are so over-the-top on this issue that I don't even care what you say anymore on this subject matter. You can compare boys to girls, and it means NOTHING to me. *yawn*
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I know. It's okay to mutilate boys, but not okay to mutilate girls. I getcha.

And yes, it's SOOO over the top to compare the exact same surgeries between genders. :roll:
 
rivrrat said:
I quoted the fact that they don't recommend it.
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Ah, so effectively they are a useful and respected source on the issue in regards to the part you agree with, not recommending it. But they are wrong and not worthy of consideration when they disagree with you, in that they don't recommend AGAINST it either and state there are legitimate medical reasons to do it.

Got it.
 
Zyphlin said:
Ah, so effectively they are a useful and respected source on the issue in regards to the part you agree with, not recommending it. But they are wrong and not worthy of consideration when they disagree with you, in that they don't recommend AGAINST it either and state there are legitimate medical reasons to do it.

Got it.
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Yes. I agree with them on part of the issue, and disagree with them on the other part. I completely agree there's no reason to recommend cutting off part of your infant's dick. I completely disagree that parents should still be allowed the decision to do so. You see, one is a medical issue, the other is a legal issue. I agree on the medical issue. I disagree on the legal issue they weighed in on that they really have no say in.
 
Again, you seem to be mistaking not specifically saying "you should" with saying "you shouldn't". They say that there's legitiamte medical reason to do EITHER, therefore the parents should make the decision themselves as there's no clear cut medical "do this" or "do that" answer.
 
I'm so glad I had a girl. Since I didn't find out the sex the nurse kept trying to pressure me to have things ready for a circumcision if it was a boy. Even though I told her we weren't going to do it, she still wanted to have things ready just in case. She really got on my nerves.
 
americanwoman said:
I'm so glad I had a girl. Since I didn't find out the sex the nurse kept trying to pressure me to have things ready for a circumcision if it was a boy. Even though I told her we weren't going to do it, she still wanted to have things ready just in case. She really got on my nerves.
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A nurse doing that is why my parents had me circumcised.

If a nurse tries that **** with my kid, she'll be told in no uncertain terms to **** off.
 
Zyphlin said:
Again, you seem to be mistaking not specifically saying "you should" with saying "you shouldn't". They say that there's legitiamte medical reason to do EITHER, therefore the parents should make the decision themselves as there's no clear cut medical "do this" or "do that" answer.
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And I am sure that if medical practitioners were no so culturally enamored against cutting the clitoral hood, that you could find plenty of medical reasons as to why it would be a good idea...

You seem to be ignoring the cultural bias.

In the UK and Australia the medical recommendations state that circumcision only be carried out if medically [/B]necessary.

If this is so, why do American medicos' still recommend, that circumcision is medically a good idea, when it is not absolutely necessary?

When we are dealing with procedures that are not necessary, then consent is fundamentally important.

It amazes me, that consequentialists arguments are employed; if the same premise was applied to a generic government action that affected adults in some way, and if Government rationalized that it "is ok, because you won't notice".....I'm sure that many people would reject, this abrogation of consent, or initiation of force. But apparently this principle of consent, should not apply to parents, because when it comes to non-necessary medical procedures, parents should be able to ignore consent.

Nice. Good to know that people can abrogate consent on the flimsiest of rational.
 
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americanwoman said:
I'm so glad I had a girl. Since I didn't find out the sex the nurse kept trying to pressure me to have things ready for a circumcision if it was a boy. Even though I told her we weren't going to do it, she still wanted to have things ready just in case. She really got on my nerves.
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They tried to do that with my sister and my nephew. She took Tucker's approach and told them to **** off and shove their mutilation intentions where the sun doesn't shine.
 
rivrrat said:
They tried to do that with my sister and my nephew. She took Tucker's approach and told them to **** off and shove their mutilation intentions where the sun doesn't shine.
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Classy sister.
 
There was an interesting article in today's Washington Post. Apparently, people want a federal law banning circumcision. Oh brother. But there was an exchange described in the article that literally made me laugh out loud.

Rallying in the Name of the Unkindest Cut?

'Intactivists' Cut to the Chase About Circumcision Issue
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A young guy sticks his buzzed head out of a white minivan as the marchers pass through a crosswalk on Pennsylvania.

"Circumcision increases sensation!" he shouts, in response to one of the protest signs.

"No, it causes premature ejaculation!" says Marilyn Milos, a former nurse and founder of the National Organization of Circumcision Information Resource Centers.

"That's never happened to me!" the guy yells back.

"Yeah, right!"
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:rofl

But check this out from the article:

a guy from Chicago who mass-produces (in his basement) an apparatus that he says allows men to grow back foreskin.
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I'm just relieved that with my son, the job is done. If he hates me when he gets older, I'll accept it, but I don't think this would be the cause of any anger he has towards me. :roll:
 
Has anyone considered why the foreskin exists?
 
I am in favor of universal circumcision. If everyone was circumcised, then politicians would have no heads, and therefore no mouths.
 
Please stop using the word "mutilate." It's preposterous. I am not a mutilated individual. I rather like my member the way it is. Very clean and smooth looking.
 
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