Call for higher circumcision rate

As I've joked to a friend of mine when he said that as a reasoning for getting with a female at a bar.

"She may look like that when its dark, but she's not going to feel like it"

Rightwing86 said:

I love how you "assume" i was referencing that woman's post when in fact I never read it. I was referring to the fact that people get it just because it's "easier to clean, and how it reduces HIV infections on people who DO NOT wear condoms" But nice :spin: It was cute. How did you come up with what I said was somehow referring to where in medical cases where circing is needed I somehow was against that? You are out of your mind. And if both of you truly think that people who sleep around without protection and spread disease and don't teacher proper hygiene should be alive, shame on both of you for ruining humanity as we know it.

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No one is ruining humanity here. Settle down.

Rightwing86 said:

I'm not really for or against (in a huge way) I think though it should be up to the person not the parents. I do not believe parents should have the right to cut off a piece of "my body" because they have heard that it can be beneficial IF "I'm a dumbass and don't use protection or bathe" Look if you think your kid is gonna be a dumb **** who doesn't do those 2 things, you should have had an abortion because he is gonna **** up the gene pool. And btw, all you women (APS and the rest) who claim that abortion is your right because it's "your body". I have heard many women claim that men should have no say in abortion because it's your body. Well, if i may, please do not have an opinion on circumcision considering you have no ****ing clue about it because you are not men, and it is not your body.

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Lol, circumcision is a common occurance here. I remember going with all my brothers for them to get theirs done and watching them cry

Abortion is a womens choice and circumcision is also our choice in the sense that it would need permission before it be performed on any of our children.

rivrrat said:

Lucky him. My cousins were not so lucky.



Well, because THAT would be inhumane. Cutting part of a child's penis off is a-okay. But docking a dog's tail or ears? Why you monster, you!

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My mother is Mexican, so I had my ears pierced when I was 2 weeks old. My mom said that I was hysterical. I have no memory of it whatsoever. So even if my son had cried (I was not in the room), I wouldn't have been upset.

Scarecrow Akhbar said:

For something as harmless and temporary as ear peircings, sure.

Circumcision isn't harmless and isn't temporary.

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How is it harmful?

I don't support genital mutilation for any reason except a pre-existing medical condition that warrants the removal of the foreskin (i.e. tumors, chronic infection, paraphimosis, etc.) People all over the world would never condone female circumcision (the removal of the clitoris), yet they would sanction the removal of the sensitive foreskin, the natural protection for the glans.

Removal of the foreskin causes a karotenoid layer to form over the glans, reducing sensitivity and making it prone to dryness and chaffing. Furthermore, I have seen more than adequate research put forward to suggest that infant circumcision neurologically alters the way a person perceives pain later in life. Circumcision cannot be performed with anaesthetic because of the risk it poses to the life of the infant, so it is done while they are fully conscious. I disagree when people say that babies are too young to remember it. If you had your foreskin chopped off, the pain would be so unimaginable that you too would block the memory, but the effects of it would drive deep into your subconscious and have untold effects for the rest of your life.

Aside from the relatively rare medical instances that require circumcision, there are only cultural and aesthetic reasons for this barbaric practice. I have long been averse to the non-medical professionals, such as rabbis, being allowed to circumcise babies outside of medical facilities. If any other adult were to try and mutilate a young boy, they would be called a pedophile and sent to jail, yet it's okay for someone to do it in the name of religion. Some cultural/religious customs should be made illegal, I don't care how much respect we afford their values in modern times. In any case, the removal of the foreskin on religious grounds stem from beliefs against masturbation, but clearly this doesn't stop young men from masturbating.

If people's foreskin is "gross", then there is a simple solution: learn to clean yourself. The problem is not the foreskin itself, but the matter that is trapped inside due to lack of proper cleaning. Even men who are circumcized who don't clean themselves adequately are going to stink. Teach your children proper hygiene, and if your partner is "gross" down there, you need to sit down and have a talk with them, regardless if they are uncircumcised or not. The solution is not cutting off a natural part of the male body that they are born with.

There is nothing "gross" about the human body you are born with.

Orius said:

I don't support genital mutilation for any reason except a pre-existing medical condition that warrants the removal of the foreskin (i.e. tumors, chronic infection, paraphimosis, etc.) People all over the world would never condone female circumcision (the removal of the clitoris), yet they would sanction the removal of the sensitive foreskin, the natural protection for the glans.

Removal of the foreskin causes a karotenoid layer to form over the glans, reducing sensitivity and making it prone to dryness and chaffing. Furthermore, I have seen more than adequate research put forward to suggest that infant circumcision neurologically alters the way a person perceives pain later in life. Circumcision cannot be performed with anaesthetic because of the risk it poses to the life of the infant, so it is done while they are fully conscious. I disagree when people say that babies are too young to remember it. If you had your foreskin chopped off, the pain would be so unimaginable that you too would block the memory, but the effects of it would drive deep into your subconscious and have untold effects for the rest of your life.

Aside from the relatively rare medical instances that require circumcision, there are only cultural and aesthetic reasons for this barbaric practice. I have long been averse to the non-medical professionals, such as rabbis, being allowed to circumcise babies outside of medical facilities. If any other adult were to try and mutilate a young boy, they would be called a pedophile and sent to jail, yet it's okay for someone to do it in the name of religion. Some cultural/religious customs should be made illegal, I don't care how much respect we afford their values in modern times. In any case, the removal of the foreskin on religious grounds stem from beliefs against masturbation, but clearly this doesn't stop young men from masturbating.

If people's foreskin is "gross", then there is a simple solution: learn to clean yourself. The problem is not the foreskin itself, but the matter that is trapped inside due to lack of proper cleaning. Even men who are circumcized who don't clean themselves adequately are going to stink. Teach your children proper hygiene, and if your partner is "gross" down there, you need to sit down and have a talk with them, regardless if they are uncircumcised or not. The solution is not cutting off a natural part of the male body that they are born with.

There is nothing "gross" about the human body you are born with.

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Oh brother. I don't mean to be a jerk, but you write like you're an authoritarian on what impacts people's psyche and what does not. Sorry, I don't give your assessment any probative value whatsoever. "Untold effects." Gag me.

aps said:

Oh brother. I don't mean to be a jerk, but you write like you're an authoritarian on what impacts people's psyche and what does not. Sorry, I don't give your assessment any probative value whatsoever. "Untold effects." Gag me.

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I think it's naive to think that mutilating a baby's genitals, while they are conscious, is going to have no effects on their psyche.

Orius said:

I think it's naive to think that mutilating a baby's genitals, while they are conscious, is going to have no effects on their psyche.

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I think it's naive to think that mutilating a baby's genitals (which I do not think circumcision is), while they are conscious, is going to have effects on every baby's psyche. Let's take the war for example. Not every service person who witnesses death, mutilation, etc. is going to develop post traumatic stress disorder. Each person is different. You can't make a general statement that everyone will be impacted by a certain circumstance. That is the definition of naive.

aps said:

I think it's naive to think that mutilating a baby's genitals (which I do not think circumcision is), while they are conscious, is going to have effects on every baby's psyche. Let's take the war for example. Not every service person who witnesses death, mutilation, etc. is going to develop post traumatic stress disorder. Each person is different. You can't make a general statement that everyone will be impacted by a certain circumstance. That is the definition of naive.

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I didn't say "every". I also made no mention of PTSD, you did.

Your war example is flawed. First, they are adults, and second, they make the choice to volunteer for the service. Infants are not given that choice when their foreskin is cut off.

And yes it is genital mutilation. The foreskin is a natural part of the penis, and its function is to protect the glans. Circumcision, in the vast majority of cases, is simply removing it for aesthetic or religious appeal.

The vast majority of circumcisions are performed without anaesthesia. Don't tell me that that's not going to affect a child who is new to the world.

I love how woman think they have any idea on whats going on in a males mind when they decide to cut off a piece of their dick. It's actually laughable. I love how there is still no conclusive evidence that cutting off the foreskin prevents anything that could be prevented with showering daily and using a condom... and yet people still do it. No wonder circumcision has been declining over the past 30 years finally the dumb ass people are dying off. People cut off the foreskin because they don't want their kid to "look" different than the rest, aside from religious reasons, it's ****ing pathetic.

Orius said:

I didn't say "every". I also made no mention of PTSD, you did.

Your war example is flawed. First, they are adults, and second, they make the choice to volunteer for the service. Infants are not given that choice when their foreskin is cut off.

And yes it is genital mutilation. The foreskin is a natural part of the penis, and its function is to protect the glans. Circumcision, in the vast majority of cases, is simply removing it for aesthetic or religious appeal.

The vast majority of circumcisions are performed without anaesthesia. Don't tell me that that's not going to affect a child who is new to the world.

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My point about raising the issue of post traumatic stress disorder was that everyone reacts to the same or similar set of facts differently. Not all children who are born to adults with alcoholism will develop alcoholism.

Not every child who has had his foreskin cut off is going to have some sort of "untold effects" on their psyche.

What I find so strange is that a child coming out of a woman's body is traumatized by the experience. There they are in a womb that is comfortable for them. They come out into the world, and they have to learn to breathe through their mouth. They are freaked out by the fact that they are no longer confined. We all go through it.

I had my ears pierced when I was two weeks old. No anesthesia. Apparently, I screamed and cried. Has that had any "untold effect" on my psyche? According to you, it has, and you don't even know me. :roll:

Rightwing86 said:

I love how woman think they have any idea on whats going on in a males mind when they decide to cut off a piece of their dick. It's actually laughable. I love how there is still no conclusive evidence that cutting off the foreskin prevents anything that could be prevented with showering daily and using a condom... and yet people still do it. No wonder circumcision has been declining over the past 30 years finally the dumb ass people are dying off. People cut off the foreskin because they don't want their kid to "look" different than the rest, aside from religious reasons, it's ****ing pathetic.

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Oh, okay. My husband is circumsized, and he had no problem with circumsizing our son. If it makes you feel better to call us dumb asses, have at it. I don't care. If we had a second son, he would get his foreskin cut off as well.

APS why did you get your son circumsized if i may ask? Because your doctor said it could decrease std's, was their a medical reason for it? You wanted him to be like the father? I'm just curious. If it was for a medical reason I apologize for calling you dumb. I just feel that so many people get it done because it can prevent std's but... so do condoms.. and it irritates me when women say "ew it's gross" have you women looked at your vaginas? I mean it looks like predator when he opens his mouth. But I still go down on them if they want it. So meh.

Rightwing86 said:

APS why did you get your son circumsized if i may ask? Because your doctor said it could decrease std's, was their a medical reason for it? You wanted him to be like the father? I'm just curious. If it was for a medical reason I apologize for calling you dumb. I just feel that so many people get it done because it can prevent std's but... so do condoms.. and it irritates me when women say "ew it's gross" have you women looked at your vaginas? I mean it looks like predator when he opens his mouth. But I still go down on them if they want it. So meh.

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Thank you! My husband is Jewish and we are raising our son Jewish (I am not Jewish). It's really about religious tradition. It never occurred to us to NOT circumsize him.

Tell ya the truth, i was born 3.5 months premature weighed 1 pound 10 ounces and had neck,open heart, and arm surgery when I was born. My parents took me to get circ'ed when i was a baby but the doc said I had been through enough pain and that circumcision was not necessary and just teach proper hygiene. So that's why i'm not cut. I would hope a girl would never turn me down because of that that's kinda jacked up lol . I mean hopefully if i can get her to where she is willing to take the pants off the rest won't matter, who i suppose there are shallow people out there .

Rightwing86 said:

Tell ya the truth, i was born 3.5 months premature weighed 1 pound 10 ounces and had neck,open heart, and arm surgery when I was born. My parents took me to get circ'ed when i was a baby but the doc said I had been through enough pain and that circumcision was not necessary and just teach proper hygiene. So that's why i'm not cut. I would hope a girl would never turn me down because of that that's kinda jacked up lol . I mean hopefully if i can get her to where she is willing to take the pants off the rest won't matter, who i suppose there are shallow people out there .

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Wow that is some serious stuff you went through. Good to have you around.

The people that keep saying it has no medical baring what so ever are simply wrong. Medical fact is against you and you can go on with the absolutely bogus claim of "mutiliation" all you want, it doesn't change the fact you're wrong. Studies have shown it has medical benefits. Whether those benefits are enough to do it or not is entirely up to the Parents, but the main pediatric medical group in America does not recommend against circumcision and does state there are legitimate medical reasons for it.

As far as "just wear a condom or clean it well", again, even if you do those it can still be medically beneficial in regards to urinary tract infection, STD's, and general cleanliness and the ramifications that can bring upon you. Yes "just wear a condom" sounds great. If they had a vaccine for the common cold would you not get it because you "just wash your hands" all the time and avoid sick people? Vaccinations in and of themselves have been known to have serious side effects including death but we routinely give them to kids because parents decide taht the benefits outweigh the risks. I guess all those in the mutilator crowd will also now be saying that parents like to stab and shank their children too?

The mutilation crowd in this are some of the most over the top, hyper emotional, laughable people within the scope of a debate I've seen in some time generally on par with what you see from both hysterical sides in teh abortion debate. The hyperbolic over generalizations made are just astounding to think a rational mind is coming up iwth them. Not to mention the ONLY way one could even fit circmucision into the definition of mutilation would require one also to believe they mutilate their child every time they cut their hair, pull a tooth, clip finger nails, or cut the umbillical cord.

Rightwing86 said:

Tell ya the truth, i was born 3.5 months premature weighed 1 pound 10 ounces and had neck,open heart, and arm surgery when I was born. My parents took me to get circ'ed when i was a baby but the doc said I had been through enough pain and that circumcision was not necessary and just teach proper hygiene. So that's why i'm not cut. I would hope a girl would never turn me down because of that that's kinda jacked up lol . I mean hopefully if i can get her to where she is willing to take the pants off the rest won't matter, who i suppose there are shallow people out there .

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You're alright in my book, Rightwing. I am thrilled that you survived after your premature birth and multiple surgeries. I love that your doctor was concerned about your level of pain. Very, very cool!

This is the stupidest topic of all and it is amazing how many of you seem to be fatuated with this nonissue topic. What's next, toe jam?

aps said:

My point about raising the issue of post traumatic stress disorder was that everyone reacts to the same or similar set of facts differently. Not all children who are born to adults with alcoholism will develop alcoholism.

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Alcoholism =/= circumcision. False premise.

Second, if a 14 year old, also under parental guardianship, were strapped to a table and forced to be circumcised, it would be against the law. Yet it's okay to do it to a baby because it cannot cry out, refuse, or resist. Cowardice at its finest.

Your entire premise operates under the assumption that babies don't feel the impact of what is done to them, that they are stupid or numb. They're not. Even in late stage pregnancies, a fetus in the womb is learning by hearing the sounds of its mother talk and the various stimulus that penentrates the womb.

aps said:

Not every child who has had his foreskin cut off is going to have some sort of "untold effects" on their psyche.

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All I am saying is that there is some effect. There HAS to be. You are ripping a part of their body off while they are completely conscious. You are arguing that some have NO effects. I think this is BS.

aps said:

What I find so strange is that a child coming out of a woman's body is traumatized by the experience. There they are in a womb that is comfortable for them. They come out into the world, and they have to learn to breathe through their mouth. They are freaked out by the fact that they are no longer confined. We all go through it.

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The body of the baby comes out in tact. Yes, the birthing process is traumatic, mostly because of the hormones involved in order to trigger labour and produce the necessary contractions. Please don't compare a natural process like birth to genital mutilation. That is laughable.

aps said:

I had my ears pierced when I was two weeks old. No anesthesia. Apparently, I screamed and cried. Has that had any "untold effect" on my psyche? According to you, it has, and you don't even know me. :roll:

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Maybe if your parents skinned your ear, it would be comparable.

rhinefire said:

This is the stupidest topic of all and it is amazing how many of you seem to be fatuated with this nonissue topic. What's next, toe jam?

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Moderator's Warning:

If it's so stupid, ignore it. Don't troll it.

Ok lets settle this topic. In my opinion I believe a child should make the decision (when they are older) I just don't think that the medical benefits outweigh losing of the foreskin. The study says that the UK has low circumcision rates and also low rates of infections among people so it's obviously not that beneficial.

Secondly I believe the reason people are getting offended is because people on the other isle openly insult some of us with foreskin. I don't know if you people realize this but to get a circumcision later in life for aesthetic reasons cost 6,000 $+ I don't have that type of money, also I have become very fond of the skin because of the way i beat it. So i don't wanna just get rid of it.

People blatently make fun of people with foreskin, they say they are sick, gross, disgusting, "make or break in relationships" etc. Take a step back, how would you all feel if you had something that you could not "pay" to remove ?and yet everyone says your sick and disgusting, "dick cheese carrier" etc etc. It's ****ed up. The OP, take a look at how he regards us with foreskin, for an example. That's why people get so irritated, thats why people get angry. At least in my respective viewpoint.

I don't think the foreskin should be removed unless it has a really good reason. I understand your point about how "it does have some benefits" I understand that. But, the question I guess it raises is, do I want to put my kid through that pain, for like a what? 5% prevention chance? I love my foreskin man, it feels good, it works nice, it doesn't smell or have bacteria fungus comin out or anything, I mean comon that would be absurd. And if a girl didnt wanna go down, im not gonna be like "BITCH GO DOWN ON THAT RIGHT Now and make her..." No. I would be like ok lemme go wash it real quick and bam, problem solved.

This is just my opinion but, please take it into account.

Orius said:

Alcoholism =/= circumcision. False premise.

Second, if a 14 year old, also under parental guardianship, were strapped to a table and forced to be circumcised, it would be against the law. Yet it's okay to do it to a baby because it cannot cry out, refuse, or resist. Cowardice at its finest.

Your entire premise operates under the assumption that babies don't feel the impact of what is done to them, that they are stupid or numb. They're not. Even in late stage pregnancies, a fetus in the womb is learning by hearing the sounds of its mother talk and the various stimulus that penentrates the womb.

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Excuse me? That is what you deduced from my post? That I think they don't feel the impact of what is done to them--that they're stupid or numb? Are you kidding me? Give me a break, Orius. My point is that not every instance of pain is going to have some negative effect on someone.

I believe that the removal of the foreskin doesn't have a long-term effect on a boy. That's my opinion, and your stating otherwise doesn't remotely impact that opinion, since you provide NO clinical basis for your assertion.

Cowardice at its finest. Overly dramatic much?

All I am saying is that there is some effect. There HAS to be. You are ripping a part of their body off while they are completely conscious. You are arguing that some have NO effects. I think this is BS.

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"There HAS to be." Sorry. Not buying it. There doesn't have to be. It's that simple. There may be, sure. But "have"--no way.

The body of the baby comes out in tact. Yes, the birthing process is traumatic, mostly because of the hormones involved in order to trigger labour and produce the necessary contractions. Please don't compare a natural process like birth to genital mutilation. That is laughable.

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Then laugh. I don't care.

Maybe if your parents skinned your ear, it would be comparable.

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Yeah, whatever.

The story about the origins of circumcision, put to song (Sung to the tune of War Pigs by Black Sabbath.)

Smegma gathered up in masses...
Just like butt-cheese in our assess...
Evil Foreskin plots desruction...
Ugly penis-tip obstruction...
STD's have got it burning...
For something cleaner God was yearning...
It is the bane of all mankind...
If it remains he'll lose his mind... Oh lord yeah!

(musical interlude)

That's when God got his mind to say
"No more foreskins anymore,
When I made them I though that I was right
But I don't think that way no more"

So God decreed that he had changed his mind
Foreskins really ain't that fun
And if those Gentiles all refuse to cut
Wait till their judgment day comes... yeah.

(Musical interlude)

Now in darkness Mohels start snipping....
As the babies all start yipping...
No more foreskins have the power...
Hand of God has struck the hour...
Day of Judgment God is calling...
On their knees the uncut are crawling...
Beggin mercy for their foreskins...
Satan Laughing spreads his wings!
All right now!


:mrgreen: