Trade barriers rise due to recession

[Orion]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/23/world/23trade.html?_r=1&hp

After repeated pledges by world leaders to avoid erecting trade barriers, protectionism is on the march, provoking nasty trade disputes and undermining efforts to plot a coordinated response to the deepest global economic downturn since World War II.

From a looming battle with China over tariffs on carbon-intensive goods to a spat over Mexican trucks using American roads, barriers are going up around the world. As the recession’s grip tightens, these pressures are likely to intensify, several experts said.

The surge in protectionism is casting a shadow over an economic summit meeting of world leaders scheduled for London on April 2. At the last such gathering, in Washington in November, former President George W. Bush persuaded the Group of 20 members to commit to protecting free trade — whatever the pressures caused by faltering economies and lost jobs. The members include industrialized and developing nations, and the European Union.

“No sooner was the G-20 statement issued than it was breached,” said Daniel M. Price, an official in the Bush administration who helped negotiate the agreement. “Instead of just talking about trade liberalization, countries need to take immediate steps to show they mean it.”

In trying to preserve internal economy, worldwide free trade is being continuously degraded. Perhaps this is one of the unforseen consequences of globalization: during times of recession, the global market gets hit harder than ever before. The "Buy American" policy put forth by Democratic Congress is one such example of what countries all around the world are currently doing.

 

[Truth Detector]

Let’s look at what is leading the charge on protectionist policies; oh yeah, it’s Mr. Obama and his false populist union protectionist fear mongering!

The most vivid example of that policy is the “Buy America” provision in the stimulus package, intended to ensure that only American manufacturers benefited from public-spending projects. The Obama administration persuaded Congress to water it down, and Mr. Obama has taken up Mr. Bush’s warnings about the dangers of protectionism.

AND;

Mr. Obama signed a $40 billion spending bill that scrapped a program enabling Mexican trucks to haul cargo over long distances on American roads. Mexico retaliated by imposing duties on $2.4 billion worth of American goods — everything from pencils to toilet paper. The trucking dispute has its roots in the North American Free Trade Agreement, or Nafta, which guaranteed Mexico, Canada and the United States access to one another’s highways for cargo transport by 2000.

AND;

“A lot of people are worried that U.S. protectionism is going to take a green face,” said Trevor Houser, an expert in energy and climate issues at the Peterson Institute for International Economics in Washington.
Given Mr. Obama’s ambiguous positions on trade during the campaign — he favored renegotiating Nafta — economists praise him for holding the fort against protectionism so far. But as stimulus programs begin to take hold, they could encourage consumers to buy more imported goods, further fanning antitrade sentiment.

AND;

“The U.S. is in such great danger of backing away from free trade,” said Kenneth S. Rogoff, a professor of economics at Harvard. “The next two years could be a disaster for free trade.”

 

[GottaHurt]

Mr. Obama signed a $40 billion spending bill that scrapped a program enabling Mexican trucks to haul cargo over long distances on American roads. Mexico retaliated by imposing duties on $2.4 billion worth of American goods — everything from pencils to toilet paper. The trucking dispute has its roots in the North American Free Trade Agreement, or Nafta, which guaranteed Mexico, Canada and the United States access to one another’s highways for cargo transport by 2000.

This is complete bull****. This is nothing more than Obama repaying the Teamsters for their money & votes.

We've now pissed off Mexico:

The Mexican government said Monday it would slap tariffs on 90 U.S. industrial and agricultural products, in a trade dispute that underscored the difficulties facing President Barack Obama as he tries to assure business and global allies that he favors free trade.

And rightly so. We have a good trade agreement in place with Canada & Mexico, and once again, unions are screwing up a good thing.

The Teamsters are screaming about the safety of Mexican trucks, yet their safety record is better than that of our own truckers.

• Since 1995, the federal government has spent $500 million to improve border inspection facilities and hire 600 new inspectors.
• All Mexican trucks entering the United States must meet all U.S. safety and security requirements
• Mexican truck drivers must meet U.S. licensing and safety requirements, without exception.
• All 22 safety mandates required previously by Congress related to Mexican trucking have been met by the Department of Transportation.
• Mexican trucks in the program have a better safety record than their American counterparts

Members of Congress should stop confusing this blatant scare mongering about “road safety” with the real issue: American truckers’ fears about the safety of their jobs and lawmakers’ fears about losing Teamster votes.

Teamsters scare mongering on NAFTA & Mexican Trucks | Mexico Trucker Online

 

[Truth Detector]

This is complete bull****. This is nothing more than Obama repaying the Teamsters for their money & votes.

We've now pissed off Mexico:

The Mexican government said Monday it would slap tariffs on 90 U.S. industrial and agricultural products, in a trade dispute that underscored the difficulties facing President Barack Obama as he tries to assure business and global allies that he favors free trade.

And rightly so. We have a good trade agreement in place with Canada & Mexico, and once again, unions are screwing up a good thing.

The Teamsters are screaming about the safety of Mexican trucks, yet their safety record is better than that of our own truckers.

• Since 1995, the federal government has spent $500 million to improve border inspection facilities and hire 600 new inspectors.
• All Mexican trucks entering the United States must meet all U.S. safety and security requirements
• Mexican truck drivers must meet U.S. licensing and safety requirements, without exception.
• All 22 safety mandates required previously by Congress related to Mexican trucking have been met by the Department of Transportation.
• Mexican trucks in the program have a better safety record than their American counterparts

Members of Congress should stop confusing this blatant scare mongering about “road safety” with the real issue: American truckers’ fears about the safety of their jobs and lawmakers’ fears about losing Teamster votes.

Teamsters scare mongering on NAFTA & Mexican Trucks | Mexico Trucker Online

Agreed; and unfortunately we had all better get used to it. The Obama administration may go down in history as one of the most inept in the history of the United States.

That stated; I expect much more of the same inept foreign policy, trade policy and economic policy. It is like the country is being run by a bunch of high school kids.

 

[Orion]

Agreed; and unfortunately we had all better get used to it. The Obama administration may go down in history as one of the most inept in the history of the United States.

That stated; I expect much more of the same inept foreign policy, trade policy and economic policy. It is like the country is being run by a bunch of high school kids.

Thanks for ruining a perfectly good thread, as usual.

 

[obvious Child]

Thanks for ruining a perfectly good thread, as usual.

They tend to do that.

Anyways, I was always a bit hesitant about the whole Mexican driver issue. Do their trucks meet our safety standards? How about their driver's experience?

 

[Ethereal]

They tend to do that.

Anyways, I was always a bit hesitant about the whole Mexican driver issue. Do their trucks meet our safety standards? How about their driver's experience?

Gottahurt already answered that question. Perhaps, instead of summarily dismissing his post you should deign to read it.

This is complete bull****. This is nothing more than Obama repaying the Teamsters for their money & votes.

We've now pissed off Mexico:

The Mexican government said Monday it would slap tariffs on 90 U.S. industrial and agricultural products, in a trade dispute that underscored the difficulties facing President Barack Obama as he tries to assure business and global allies that he favors free trade.

And rightly so. We have a good trade agreement in place with Canada & Mexico, and once again, unions are screwing up a good thing.

The Teamsters are screaming about the safety of Mexican trucks, yet their safety record is better than that of our own truckers.

• Since 1995, the federal government has spent $500 million to improve border inspection facilities and hire 600 new inspectors.
• All Mexican trucks entering the United States must meet all U.S. safety and security requirements
• Mexican truck drivers must meet U.S. licensing and safety requirements, without exception.
• All 22 safety mandates required previously by Congress related to Mexican trucking have been met by the Department of Transportation.
• Mexican trucks in the program have a better safety record than their American counterparts

Members of Congress should stop confusing this blatant scare mongering about “road safety” with the real issue: American truckers’ fears about the safety of their jobs and lawmakers’ fears about losing Teamster votes.

Teamsters scare mongering on NAFTA & Mexican Trucks | Mexico Trucker Online

 

[jamesrage]

With the 20 million plus illegals in this country and most of whom are from Mexico, **** Mexico. Worrying about whether or not we piss off Mexico is not one of my worries. We need to start making our own things. Screw sellouts in office who toss the salad of globalist scum. We need to worry about ourselves, not whether or not Mexico will stop making our growing **** for us.

 

[Arch Enemy]

In trying to preserve internal economy, worldwide free trade is being continuously degraded. Perhaps this is one of the unforseen consequences of globalization: during times of recession, the global market gets hit harder than ever before. The "Buy American" policy put forth by Democratic Congress is one such example of what countries all around the world are currently doing.

I don't know if is unforseen, as much as it is an inevitable consequence.

I see the NAFTA like a baby-pool in comparison to the E.U., almost like an experiment, which seems to be failing at this point in time. Mexico and America's economies are having a hell of a time assimilating, in the manner of France and Germany.

Anything that the United States does that looks remotely protectionist, and supposedly within the confines of NAFTA, will look as if the U.S. is trying to eat the Mexican economy; sorta how some anti-EU advocates suggest that the EU has plotted Germany as the pac-man and Eastern Europe as those little blinking dots.

 

[RightinNYC]

With the 20 million plus illegals in this country and most of whom are from Mexico, **** Mexico. Worrying about whether or not we piss off Mexico is not one of my worries. We need to start making our own things. Screw sellouts in office who toss the salad of globalist scum. We need to worry about ourselves, not whether or not Mexico will stop making our growing **** for us.

Got a plan for how this will work, or would you rather just offer an angry, bile-filled rant?

Let me know how happy you are when you're paying 5 times as much in labor costs for everything you get, and how great American manufacturing is doing when we can't export anything. That's not the path to success.

 

[jamesrage]

Got a plan for how this will work, or would you rather just offer an angry, bile-filled rant?

Let me know how happy you are when you're paying 5 times as much in labor costs for everything you get,

By that argument we should allow companies to outsource to any where that practices slavery. Imagine how much money we could save if Hasbro and NIKE only had to pay for the food,clothes and roof over the head of their "workers" if they could buy slaves.
Besides,where things 5 times more expensive before NAFTA and world trade? Besides I am not going to shed a tear because we decide to make it less profitable to exploit people in 3rd countries and people in communist countries with dirt cheap wages.Labor is only small piece of the price.

and how great American manufacturing is doing when we can't export anything.

What do we export other than jobs? Oh no China won't allow us to export any more manufacturing jobs to them.


Amazing how some people can sit there and pretend to be conservative and pretend to be pro-American when do everything you can to allow American jobs to be flushed down the toilet. Being patriotic is more than just waiving a flag and claiming you support the troops.

 

[Arch Enemy]

By that argument we should allow companies to outsource to any where that practices slavery. Imagine how much money we could save if Hasbro and NIKE only had to pay for the food,clothes and roof over the head of their "workers" if they could buy slaves.

We'd save money!? Do you know how much a Nike worker makes...?

What do we export other than jobs? Oh no China won't allow us to export any more manufacturing jobs to them.

That's fail dude, Here:
Stimulus? U.S. to buy Chinese condoms, ending Alabama jobs

Amazing how some people can sit there and pretend to be conservative and pretend to be pro-American when do everything you can to allow American jobs to be flushed down the toilet. Being patriotic is more than just waiving a flag and claiming you support the troops.

American jobs are not being flushed down the toilet. There are people who are willing to work for less, and work longer and harder.... Capitalism sucks, huh

 

[obvious Child]

Gottahurt already answered that question. Perhaps, instead of summarily dismissing his post you should deign to read it.

Not quite. He posted something from a questionable source without clear references. Merely because they say they do does not equate to actually doing. The Dallas News link doesn't provide any citations either. Now, if he had something with solid evidence, that would be difference. But as usually, that is not case.

 

[RightinNYC]

By that argument we should allow companies to outsource to any where that practices slavery. Imagine how much money we could save if Hasbro and NIKE only had to pay for the food,clothes and roof over the head of their "workers" if they could buy slaves.

Which is why we have treaties to ensure that there is a minimum baseline of treatment. You do understand that there's a middle ground between slavery and $71/hour to build a car, right?

Besides,where things 5 times more expensive before NAFTA and world trade?

If not for free trade, inflation would have made the vast majority of niceties that you and I take for granted into luxuries. The fact that free trade curbed inflation and reduced prices so that the increase was not as dramatic is not evidence that it wouldn't have happened at all.

Besides I am not going to shed a tear because we decide to make it less profitable to exploit people in 3rd countries and people in communist countries with dirt cheap wages.Labor is only small piece of the price.

Depending on the product, labor is often a huge part of the price. And where are you getting this "communist" stuff from? The vast majority of our imports come from fellow democracies.

What do we export other than jobs? Oh no China won't allow us to export any more manufacturing jobs to them.

You're kidding, right?

In 2006 U.S. exports grew by 12.7 percent over 2005 to $1.4 trillion. Exports comprised 11.1 percent of U.S. GDP in 2006, the highest ever in dollar terms.

Do you consider $1,400,000,000,000 nothing?

Amazing how some people can sit there and pretend to be conservative and pretend to be pro-American when do everything you can to allow American jobs to be flushed down the toilet. Being patriotic is more than just waiving a flag and claiming you support the troops.

It's also more than hating mexicans for TAKING ARE JERBS!!

 

[Kandahar]

By that argument we should allow companies to outsource to any where that practices slavery. Imagine how much money we could save if Hasbro and NIKE only had to pay for the food,clothes and roof over the head of their "workers" if they could buy slaves.
Besides,where things 5 times more expensive before NAFTA and world trade? Besides I am not going to shed a tear because we decide to make it less profitable to exploit people in 3rd countries and people in communist countries with dirt cheap wages.Labor is only small piece of the price.

Oh bull****. They aren't being "exploited." If an Indonesian is willing to make shoes for $1 per hour, it's because he considers that to be a good wage. Every country goes through a sweatshop phase before they can develop. Western Europe did in the 1800s. The United States did in the early 1900s. Japan did in the 1950s. Korea and Taiwan did in the 1980s. China and Vietnam are doing it now. Eventually they all outgrew their sweatshop phases and became prosperous nations.

Your phony concern for "exploitation" is laughable. Why don't we ask the workers in question if they feel exploited? And if they don't, then I suggest shutting up would be the best course of action.

What do we export other than jobs? Oh no China won't allow us to export any more manufacturing jobs to them.

Our exports, according to the CIA World Factbook:
agricultural products (soybeans, fruit, corn) 9.2%, industrial supplies (organic chemicals) 26.8%, capital goods (transistors, aircraft, motor vehicle parts, computers, telecommunications equipment) 49.0%, consumer goods (automobiles, medicines) 15.0% (2003)

Just because YOU are unaware of them doesn't mean they don't exist.

Amazing how some people can sit there and pretend to be conservative and pretend to be pro-American when do everything you can to allow American jobs to be flushed down the toilet. Being patriotic is more than just waiving a flag and claiming you support the troops.

You're right. For starters, it's about knowing what the **** you're talking about, learning some economics, and stop bitching about the furriners takin err jerrrbs when the real problem is that you failed to educate yourself to compete in a globalized world.

 

[GottaHurt]

Not quite. He posted something from a questionable source without clear references. Merely because they say they do does not equate to actually doing. The Dallas News link doesn't provide any citations either. Now, if he had something with solid evidence, that would be difference. But as usually, that is not case.

Once again, you show up empty handed spouting non sense.

A simple Google search will yield article after article, basically saying the same thing. Teamsters are crying, Mexican trucks pass muster.

Trade War with Mexico? - BusinessWeek

 

[RightinNYC]

...

...

eerie.

.....

 

[Arch Enemy]

eerie.

.....

We Surround Him

 

[obvious Child]

Once again, you show up empty handed spouting non sense.

lol. Amusing. I wonder if you can read. The only thing of relevance in that article was Joseph W. Comé's report. And given its statistical problems, it may not be a good indicator of safety. A total sample of 97 trucks is rather inconclusive to those who understand statistics. But I do realize that an understanding of that science is essentially nonexistent here.

 

[obvious Child]

By that argument we should allow companies to outsource to any where that practices slavery.

Sweat shops are slave camps?

Pray tell, if that was true, why are sweat shop jobs in such high demand?

NIKE pays something like 1.5 to 2 times the average wage in most countries it operates in. Slavery? How is it slavery when people line up to get jobs and the jobs pay well above the national averages?

Or would you rather have them work as prostitutes?

In the slums in Indonesia and in Thailand, many workers even speak of sweatshop jobs as their greatest aspiration.

Asia's Crisis Upsets Rising Effort To Confront Blight of Sweatshops - The New York Times

The data clearly show that overall, apparel industry workers are far better off than most people in their economies.

Sweatshops and Third World Living Standards: Are the Jobs Worth the Sweat?: Publications: The Independent Institute

Imagine how much money we could save if Hasbro and NIKE only had to pay for the food,clothes and roof over the head of their "workers" if they could buy slaves.

What are you talking about?

Besides,where things 5 times more expensive before NAFTA and world trade?

Off season foods. For instance, agricultural tariffs on vegetables out of season in the US imported from South America were phenomenal. Bare minimum 35% tariff. Now with NAFTA, there is no tariff on out of season vegetables brought in from Mexico.

Besides I am not going to shed a tear because we decide to make it less profitable to exploit people in 3rd countries and people in communist countries with dirt cheap wages.

I wasn't aware that South Korea and Japan were Communist during the 50s and 60s. And China is Communist in name only. So is Vietnam. Thailand is a democracy as is Indonesia. And you forget that direct investment brings up the standards of living in a developing country. Bilateral trade with South Korea, which was a developing nation has dramatically increased over the past 20 years. US exports to SK over the past 14 years have hit $70 billion annually. Trade with the world market not only allows us variety, but variety with value and it creates export markets. Your argument would have us shut down our trade with South Korea costing millions of Americans their jobs.

Beyond the U.S.–South Korea Alliance: Reinvigorating Economic Relations

What do we export other than jobs? Oh no China won't allow us to export any more manufacturing jobs to them.

US Exports to China by State, 2000-07

You can check how much your state exports to China.

Amazing how some people can sit there and pretend to be conservative and pretend to be pro-American when do everything you can to allow American jobs to be flushed down the toilet. Being patriotic is more than just waiving a flag and claiming you support the troops.

Explain to me how supporting a framework that costs millions of Americans their jobs, slows growth of export markets, forces Americans to buy inferior products at higher prices, reduces our quality of living, was directly responsible for WWII, and weakens ties with our allies is "pro-American."

Try it. If you can.

 

[Triad]

The basics of the economy are sound.
The basics of the economic system are sound and have proven themselves better then the alternatives for longer then anyone here has been alive.

To radically "change" society and the economic system because of a downturn would be as stupid today as it would have been following the Depression.



The hate the rich crap is just dumb.

 

[Truth Detector]

Thanks for ruining a perfectly good thread, as usual.

Thanks for adding absolutely NOTHING but your typical whiney babble as usual.

:2wave:

 

[Truth Detector]

By that argument we should allow companies to outsource to any where that practices slavery. Imagine how much money we could save if Hasbro and NIKE only had to pay for the food,clothes and roof over the head of their "workers" if they could buy slaves.
Besides,where things 5 times more expensive before NAFTA and world trade? Besides I am not going to shed a tear because we decide to make it less profitable to exploit people in 3rd countries and people in communist countries with dirt cheap wages.Labor is only small piece of the price.



What do we export other than jobs? Oh no China won't allow us to export any more manufacturing jobs to them.


Amazing how some people can sit there and pretend to be conservative and pretend to be pro-American when do everything you can to allow American jobs to be flushed down the toilet. Being patriotic is more than just waiving a flag and claiming you support the troops.

There's a reason companies run to other countries to manufacture goods that the consumer can afford and willing to pay for.

It is we and the vast incomprehensible red tape, regulations, requirements and unreasonable UNION contracts that make earning a profit for one's investment nearly impossible.

The American consumer talks through their wallets and they are saying they are unwilling to pay the costs of American made goods. You want to bring manufacturing back? Then talk to your legislators and elect those who are the OPPOSITE of the raving lunatics currently in control of our Congress and Senate today.

All the ranting, raging and protectionism won't change things or make them any better.

 

[winston53660]

There's a reason companies run to other countries to manufacture goods that the consumer can afford and willing to pay for.

It is we and the vast incomprehensible red tape, regulations, requirements and unreasonable UNION contracts that make earning a profit for one's investment nearly impossible. .

Are the Unions responsible for the Cadillac Cimeron?

 

[Truth Detector]

Are the Unions responsible for the Cadillac Cimeron?

You'll have to go beyond vague questions and attempt to clearly spell out your argument if you want to have a discussion on whether Unions are responsible for the Cadillac Cimeron.

Frankly I am at a loss what your point is supposed to be, as usual.

Carry on. :roll: