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Pope condemns sexual violence against women

talloulou said:
There's no reason "mothers" can't be in charge of teaching and preaching in houses of God. She is as equipped as "father" is to handle the task. As I've said females have been heads and leaders in churches outside the Catholic faith with great success.
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Except God is a "Father"--and Jesus was a man and Catholics believe God does things a certain way on purpose.
 
Felicity said:
Except God is a "Father"--and Jesus was a man and Catholics believe God does things a certain way on purpose.
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There's no proof God has a penis. We're supposedly all God's children with no apparent mother in sight. Clearly God is beyond gender and his creations require no shlong.

Still though - even if God does have a penis the only way he would rule that only men could teach in his house was if he was a discriminatory dick in which case, screw em.
 
talloulou said:
There's no proof God has a penis. We're supposedly all God's children with no apparent mother in sight. Clearly God is beyond gender and his creations require no shlong.

Still though - even if God does have a penis the only way he would rule that only men could teach in his house was if he was a discriminatory dick in which case, screw em.
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Male does not mean penis--gender is soul deep.

And your "screw God" shtick is not "shocking"--it's actually what those with "religion issues" do when they can't maintain civil discourse on a matter and want to alienate so that they don't have to keep defending their "emotional" reaction to philosophical discussion.
 
Felicity said:
Male does not mean penis--gender is soul deep.

And your "screw God" shtick is not "shocking"--it's actually what those with "religion issues" do when they can't maintain civil discourse on a matter and want to alienate so that they don't have to keep defending their "emotional" reaction to philosophical discussion.
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I'm not being uncivil. If the premise is that God is my creator and yet men are created better in that for no rational reason and without explanation they rank higher in the house of God then obviously respect for God goes down whether I'm talking about god in the hypothetical or the actual being is standing right before me mocking my gender.
 
talloulou said:
I'm not being uncivil. If the premise is that God is my creator and yet men are created better in that for no rational reason and without explanation they rank higher in the house of God then obviously respect for God goes down whether I'm talking about god in the hypothetical or the actual being is standing right before me mocking my gender.
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Where does the Catholic Church say "men are better?" It doesn't--it says "men and women are different." We all have different natures and abilities--being able to do one thing that someone else cannot does not mean one is "better" than another. YOU are the one who views the priesthood as some "honor" that only men can achieve. :roll: Yeah--with all the attacks that priests get ...some "honor!" The priesthood is a service, if one views it as a status symbol--THAT'S a lousy priest.
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
Because souls don't reproduce. Is gender needed in the afterlife?
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Souls DO reproduce--body and soul is are incomplete without the other. And yes--gender matters. Christians believe in the Resurrection of the body.



Does all life have a soul?
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No. Only that sort of life that has been imbued with a soul by God--and the only corporeal life that has been inspired is human beings.
 
Felicity said:
Souls DO reproduce--body and soul is are incomplete without the other. And yes--gender matters. Christians believe in the Resurrection of the body.



No. Only that sort of life that has been imbued with a soul by God--and the only corporeal life that has been inspired is human beings.
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What is the difference between a male and female soul?
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
What is the difference between a male and female soul?
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Generally, it is what they are naturally inclined to, like woman tend to be more nurturing whereas men are generally more assertive. There's no "soul penis"--just as the soul is something that is not of a tangible material, the differences between men and women at the spiritual level are also intangible. The idea that we are all the same--a "tabula rasa"--is losing ground at a fast rate within science. It's something religion has always recognized. Difference is not bad or good--it's just "different."
 
Felicity said:
Where does the Catholic Church say "men are better?" It doesn't--it says "men and women are different." We all have different natures and abilities--being able to do one thing that someone else cannot does not mean one is "better" than another. YOU are the one who views the priesthood as some "honor" that only men can achieve. :roll: Yeah--with all the attacks that priests get ...some "honor!" The priesthood is a service, if one views it as a status symbol--THAT'S a lousy priest.
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So if women were barred from being drs. on the premise that they were different it wouldn't be discrimination? If women were told by men that they couldn't be drs. because they were different, with different abilities - this wouldn't be discrimination? If women were told, "Look you don't even want to worry your pretty lil head with that because drs. get sued all the time and it's a very touch job," that wouldn't be discrimination?

Or is your argument that when God discriminates as an employer it's ok.
 
talloulou said:
So if women were barred from being drs. on the premise that they were different it wouldn't be discrimination? If women were told by men that they couldn't be drs. because they were different, with different abilities - this wouldn't be discrimination? If women were told, "Look you don't even want to worry your pretty lil head with that because drs. get sued all the time and it's a very touch job," that wouldn't be discrimination?
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Priests are not doctors--it's an altogether different thing. That's why priests don't call it a "career"--it's a "vocation."

Or is your argument that when God discriminates as an employer it's ok.
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God isn't "an employer"--He's God.:doh
 
Felicity said:
Generally, it is what they are naturally inclined to, like woman tend to be more nurturing whereas men are generally more assertive. There's no "soul penis"--just as the soul is something that is not of a tangible material, the differences between men and women at the spiritual level are also intangible. The idea that we are all the same--a "tabula rasa"--is losing ground at a fast rate within science. It's something religion has always recognized. Difference is not bad or good--it's just "different."
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How did nuns get the reputation for being so assertive with their ruler smacking and whatnot? Isn't the priest the one that nurtures faith? It seems to me that souls are different or similar to the human body depending on when it's convenient for an argument. What does a man have that a woman doesn't that makes God decree that only a man can hold the infallible position of Pope? If forgiveness is so big with the Church, doesn't that take more nurturing than assertiveness?
 
Felicity said:
Priests are not doctors--it's an altogether different thing. That's why priests don't call it a "career"--it's a "vocation."

God isn't "an employer"--He's God.:doh
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The church is an employer, a discriminating employer.
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
How did nuns get the reputation for being so assertive with their ruler smacking and whatnot? Isn't the priest the one that nurtures faith? It seems to me that souls are different or similar to the human body depending on when it's convenient for an argument. What does a man have that a woman doesn't that makes God decree that only a man can hold the infallible position of Pope? If forgiveness is so big with the Church, doesn't that take more nurturing than assertiveness?
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You want to separate soul and body to try to make your point--and I already said repeatedly, the two are incomplete without the other. The nature of woman is receptive, and the nature of man is generative--but for the human race to be complete, we need both. What man has that woman does not have for the position of Pope is the calling. Men, and only men, are called to the priesthood. And only 266 men in the whole world have been called to be Pope. Does that mean all the other men in history have been discriminated against? :lol:
 
winston53660 said:
I did a google search on "Priests that are doctors"

Here is an odd article that came up:

Arunachal Pradesh, India - Hundreds of tribal people in Arunachal Pradesh still rely on community priests rather than medical practitioners to cure diseases. http://www.wwrn.org/article.php?idd=25170&sec=73&cont=4
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Your link isn't working--but a priest CAN be a doctor, but a priest is a priest. There are women who are called "doctors of the Church"-- Doctor of the Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Felicity said:
You want to separate soul and body to try to make your point--and I already said repeatedly, the two are incomplete without the other. The nature of woman is receptive, and the nature of man is generative--but for the human race to be complete, we need both.
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First off, men can be receptive. Secondly, women are at least as generative as men if not more so since we actually birth babies.

What man has that woman does not have for the position of Pope is the calling.
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If a woman claims she has been called by God, who are men of the church to question her? Since these callings can't be "authenticated" in any way they're moot.

Men, and only men, are called to the priesthood.
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All of the women who feel they've been called would disagree with you.

And only 266 men in the whole world have been called to be Pope. Does that mean all the other men in history have been discriminated against? :lol:
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No, as it's clear there was no gender discrimination. In the case of the church refusing to employ a female priestess on the basis of her vagina there could be no clearer more straightforward example of gender discrimination.
 
talloulou said:
First off, men can be receptive. Secondly, women are at least as generative as men if not more so since we actually birth babies.
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Do you decide gender of the baby? No? 'kay.:2wave:

"receptive" is a general term for a distinction between the nature of men and women. Are you the same as your husband? Do you think you could do what he does in your family as well as he does? Or do you each bring something unique to the relationship? Same thing on the level of the priesthood and the Church--that's why the Church is referred to as "she."



If a woman claims she has been called by God, who are men of the church to question her? Since these callings can't be "authenticated" in any way they're moot.
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Because God gave the Church the authority to bind and loose. If a woman is claiming to be "called" she is mistaken. Even men who claim to be "called" go through rigorous "discernment."

All of the women who feel they've been called would disagree with you.
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They are welcome to. Their opinion on the matter really means nothing since the Church is not run by popular vote.



No, as it's clear there was no gender discrimination. In the case of the church refusing to employ a female priestess on the basis of her vagina there could be no clearer more straightforward example of gender discrimination.
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It's not her vagina that gets in the way--it's a lack of an authentic calling. Some men cannot be priests either since in discernment it is determined that their vocation lies elsewhere.
 
Felicity said:
Do you decide gender of the baby? No? 'kay.:2wave:
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Oh so what. A woman knows a baby is hers in a way that man never can without scientific intervention. I find this whole idea that women are receptive geniuses while men are generative absurd and offensive.

"receptive" is a general term for a distinction between the nature of men and women.
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It smacks of submission when thrown around by men of the church.

Are you the same as your husband? Do you think you could do what he does in your family as well as he does? Or do you each bring something unique to the relationship? Same thing on the level of the priesthood and the Church--that's why the Church is referred to as "she."
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I know stay at home dads - what I do - that are quite successful. I know female software developers - what my man does - that are quite successful. When it comes to the job of preaching in the church there is no rational reason to believe a man is better suited to that position than a woman is.



Because God gave the Church the authority to bind and loose. If a woman is claiming to be "called" she is mistaken. Even men who claim to be "called" go through rigorous "discernment."
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How do you know she's mistaken? As society has evolved and allowed women to do more so may have God. Maybe in biblical times God acted in a certain way that he might not act today. There's no way church men "know" a woman has not received the calling unless they are claiming an actual angel was sent to them and told them to bar women from the door.

They are welcome to. Their opinion on the matter really means nothing since the Church is not run by popular vote.
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Nor is it run by God as is easily evidenced by the atrocities that have taken place in church. It is run by men. It is men keeping women out, not God.

It's not her vagina that gets in the way--it's a lack of an authentic calling. Some men cannot be priests either since in discernment it is determined that their vocation lies elsewhere.
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If it takes a discernment process to evaluate whether or not a man's calling was real I see no reason to not offer the same discernment process to women.
 
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ludahai said:
The silence from the anti-Catholic bigots, who are flooding their own anti-Catholic threads but ignore a thread where even they can only but admit the Pope is right, is deafening.
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It should not matter if people criticize the Pope. The Pope is a man. Man is fallible. He will make decisions that some disagree with and there's nothing wrong with a little bit of dissension.
 
talloulou said:
Oh so what. A woman knows a baby is hers in a way that man never can without scientific intervention. I find this whole idea that women are receptive geniuses while men are generative absurd and offensive.
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See--again you are seeing one role as "better" than another--they are not--they are "different." You are the one making a discriminatory judgement.


It smacks of submission when thrown around by men of the church.
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How so? Just because you perceive it in a way it is not intended does not make it so.

I know stay at home dads - what I do - that are quite successful. I know female software developers - what man does - that are quite successful. When it comes to the job of preaching in the church there is no rational reason to believe a man is better suited to that position than a woman is.
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Except that God is "Father" and Jesus is a man, and the priesthood from the roots of Christianity and beyond, back to the Levitical priests, are men, have been men, will be men--always.



How do you know she's mistaken. As society has evolved and allowed women to do more so may have God.
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God is immutable--he does not change. Perfection needs no change.

Maybe in biblical times God acted in a certain way that he might not act today. There's no way church men "know" a woman has not received the calling unless they are claiming an actual angel was sent to them and told them to bar women from the door.
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There are many many many theological reasons why men are priests, and women are not. Even right down to the way the holy of holies is a representation of the womb and only the high priest can enter into it...(see Mary and Jesus).
I suppose I could try to explain it to you on all those levels, but I don't really get the feeling you care about the rationale. It appears you only want to call the Church misogynistic and validate your own conclusions rather than try to understand WHY the Church believes as she does.
...As evidenced here:
Nor is it run by God as is easily evidenced by the atrocities that have taken place in church. It is run by men. It is men keeping women out, not God.
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...and here:
If it takes a discernment process to evaluate whether or not a man's calling was real I see no reason to not offer the same discernment process to women.
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Felicity said:
See--again you are seeing one role as "better" than another--they are not--they are "different." You are the one making a discriminatory judgement.
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The Catholic Church consists of a hierarchy in leadership and women are kept out of prominent roles. In other words forget "better" they are not EQUAL.


I suppose I could try to explain it to you on all those levels, but I don't really get the feeling you care about the rationale. It appears you only want to call the Church misogynistic and validate your own conclusions rather than try to understand WHY the Church believes as she does.
...As evidenced here:


...and here:
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You're absolutely right. I care not why the Catholic Church is misogynistic. It's enough that I know that it is. In regards to the OP it is laughable that anyone would look to the Catholic Church in regards to gender equality matters. Yes violence is bad. Kudos to them for recognizing the obvious. However discrimination is also bad. Inequality and hierarchies of people based on gender in the workplace are also bad.
 
talloulou said:
I care not why the Catholic Church is misogynistic. It's enough that I know that it is. .
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What is laughable is spouting absurd accusations from a position of ignorance. The teaching of the Church is that man and woman are equal in dignity, though different in their nature. Your "knowing" is blind bigotry.
 
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