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Obama calls for new start with Iran

Slippery Slope said:
I thought it was the conservative right that complains endlessly about how being PC is destroying our nation. :roll: The guy makes a little retard joke about himself and look at the whining...
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"...a little retard joke"??? Your choice of words is up to snuff with Obammy's.
 
chevydriver1123 said:
In all honesty I never thought Obama was going to take Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran off the table. I mean come on, look at the people the SOB surrounds himself with. Hillary being SoS is one big reason Obama wouldn't take war off the table. Its all smoke and mirrors to appease anti-war liberals and to say "Hey I tried". Mark my words, if Obama is a one term president he will push for war before he leaves.
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So Foreign Policy is only a stage act with no meaning?
He does not want to make Iran an ally?

PS. It will never happen with the Kooks in power... unless Obama gives the terrorists a pass on all fronts.
Their last message to us was "DEATH TO AMERICA".
That was the response to Obama.

.
 
zimmer said:
So Foreign Policy is only a stage act with no meaning?
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Are you asking this pertaining to Obama's policy or foreign policy in general?


He does not want to make Iran an ally?
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In my opinion its about 50-50 at this point.


PS. It will never happen with the Kooks in power... unless Obama gives the terrorists a pass on all fronts.
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You have more faith in the guy than I do. I dont trust his anti-war stance with Hillary that close to him.

Their last message to us was "DEATH TO AMERICA".
That was the response to Obama.
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No ****, thats been their message to us since the 70s.
 
chevydriver1123 said:
Are you asking this pertaining to Obama's policy or foreign policy in general?
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In this instance I was asking about foreign, but I see you have even less faith in them.
I thought that was virtually impossible.

In my opinion its about 50-50 at this point.
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I think the only way Obama would strike is if we had no option. Then it would be too late. One of our allies would be hit. If Israel strikes he can stand back and wag his finger of contempt. He's good at that.
You have more faith in the guy than I do. I dont trust his anti-war stance with Hillary that close to him.
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Seems so.

No ****, thats been their message to us since the 70s.
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Some people just don't get it.
I'd bet most Leftists didn't understand the real message.
Obama was grasping at straws and used the biggest one first. The Office of The President of the United States.
:doh
And these people are so damn smart it hurts.

.
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Well you would be WRONG as usual then; apparently your selective perceptions won't permit you to see the whole story so I shall help you:

Khamenei set the bar impossibly high - demanding an overhaul of U.S. foreign policy, including giving up "unconditional support" for Israel and halting claims that Iran is seeking nuclear arms. Iran insists its nuclear program is only for peaceful energy purposes.
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Although I didn't specifically mention these issues, my point was still obvious; I was referring mainly to Ahmedinejad's comments, as I hadn't heard specifically what Khamenei said in response to Obama's comments. Nevertheless, my point still stands.

First, the unconditional support for Israel is as I said "a precondition on which the US government (and yourself) cannot budge".

Second, the claims that Iran is seeking nuclear arms is not unreasonable at all, given that there is no proof whatsoever of these claims and thus they are simply slander and fearmongering.

So I don't really know what you mean when I was wrong, when what you posted is exactly to what I was referring.
 
So now that the election is over the right says the war has been won? :cool:

I guess it's too late for Obama to be a surrender monkey after all. Sweet.

I'm actually pretty sure things are going to get messier as we start leaving. I hope Iraq makes it, but in the end we can't be the ones to prop them up. Only they can assert themselves as a nation, and it probably won't always be what we would've hoped for.

It will still be a breeding ground for terrorism threatened by suicide bombings and under the effects of Iranian influence for quite some time. "Better than Saddam" is a remarkably low bar considering the lives and treasure spent on this war.
 
cascadian said:
So now that the election is over the right says the war has been won? :cool:

I guess it's too late for Obama to be a surrender monkey after all. Sweet.

I'm actually pretty sure things are going to get messier as we start leaving. I hope Iraq makes it, but in the end we can't be the ones to prop them up. Only they can assert themselves as a nation, and it probably won't always be what we would've hoped for.

It will still be a breeding ground for terrorism threatened by suicide bombings and under the effects of Iranian influence for quite some time. "Better than Saddam" is a remarkably low bar considering the lives and treasure spent on this war.
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We are leaving 50 to 60 thousand troops.
Not exactly leaving them to fend for themselves.
This will go on for Obama's 4 years as he won't want to be the guy responsible for screwing up victory.


.
 
cascadian said:
So now that the election is over the right says the war has been won? :cool:
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Nah, we've been saying it all along. Good thing you've finally caught up though.

cascadian said:
I guess it's too late for Obama to be a surrender monkey after all. Sweet.
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Don't be disappointed now. There's plenty of room in Afghanistan for an Obama ****-up.

cascadian said:
It will still be a breeding ground for terrorism threatened by suicide bombings and under the effects of Iranian influence for quite some time. "Better than Saddam" is a remarkably low bar considering the lives and treasure spent on this war.
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I'm sure the same liberal sentiment was felt when "Better than Hilter" arguments were posed.
 
GottaHurt said:
Nah, we've been saying it all along. Good thing you've finally caught up though.
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Well I'll admit I don't spend a lot of time reading conservative commentary, but when McCain said Obama's plan was like surrendering I don't think he was trying to appeal to the center.
GottaHurt said:
Don't be disappointed now. There's plenty of room in Afghanistan for an Obama ****-up.
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Gee, would have been nice to think about that, I don't know ... about 7 years ago. The Russians didn't win there, Bush didn't win there and I don't expect much from that place any time soon no matter what we do.

GottaHurt said:
I'm sure the same liberal sentiment was felt when "Better than Hilter" arguments were posed .
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?? Are you saying FDR wasn't a liberal?
 
GottaHurt said:
More revisionist history. Carters meddling was the demise of the Shah's regime which is why we are where we are with them today.
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yeah i guess it is revisionist history if you support secret police and puppet governments.
 
cascadian said:
"Better than Saddam" is a remarkably low bar considering the lives and treasure spent on this war.
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I don't know... let's see:

They have a Constitution.
They have elections.
The first democracy in the region and these folks lined up in election after election to cast their free vote... while knowing some idiot could kill them.

Saddam isn't murdering 100 people per day.
Throwing them off buildings.
Electrocuting them through their genitals.
Raping their wives and children.
Letting his sons use the country as they liked... continuing the tradition of rape.
Gassing Kurds.
Making war all over the Region.
He took a fairly modern country in the 1970's and ran it into the ground.

Nah... no progress there.
"Low standard."

We heard you folks claim you had a smarter and better plan but all we heard was surrender.

Scan0020.jpg


PS. Clinton let 1 million die, and Albright thought "it was worth it.
Clinton did not free ONE person AND one million died.
THAT... is low.


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zimmer said:
They have a Constitution.
They have elections.
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The rub is what happens when we leave.

zimmer said:
Saddam isn't murdering 100 people per day.
Throwing them off buildings.
Electrocuting them through their genitals.
Raping their wives and children.
Letting his sons use the country as they liked... continuing the tradition of rape.
Gassing Kurds.
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This all falls under the "Better than Saddam" category. You're just describing how low the bar is now.

zimmer said:
Making war all over the Region.
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The US conservatives didn't seem to mind his war with Iran so much.

zimmer said:
He took a fairly modern country in the 1970's and ran it into the ground.
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Hmmm that's debatable. I'd say it was the US military that bombed Iraq into the stone age.
zimmer said:
We heard you folks claim you had a smarter and better plan but all we heard was surrender.
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Plan for what exactly?

zimmer said:
PS. Clinton let 1 million die, and Albright thought "it was worth it.
Clinton did not free ONE person.
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The left was not happy with Clinton about this FTR. Of course I don't think his policies were that different from GH Bush on Iraq.
 
cascadian said:
The rub is what happens when we leave.
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The rub is we are not leaving.
Obama said he would leave 50 to 60 thousand troops.

This all falls under the "Better than Saddam" category. You're just describing how low the bar is now.
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I am describing success.
Constitution. Free elections. Turning a former foe and hostile member into an ally.

Brothers At War

The US conservatives didn't seem to mind his war with Iran so much.
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Different time. The was Communist expansion all over the world.

Hmmm that's debatable. I'd say it was the US military that bombed Iraq into the stone age.
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It's not debatable. Iraq was a modern country in the early 1970's.
We used precision weapons... not carpet bombing.

Plan for what exactly?
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For Iraq. It's a lot of what we heard. Bush is an idiot, he has no plan, we have one that's "Smarter and Better".
I remember the chorus line well.

The left was not happy with Clinton about this FTR. Of course I don't think his policies were that different from GH Bush on Iraq.
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Clinton let the UN run the show.
He got up to 16 UN Sanctions.
UN Inspecteurs of the Sorte were kicked out.
Clinton did next to nothing; had Dick Morris take a poll, and then flapped his gums... that's about all.

.
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winston53660 said:
yeah i guess it is revisionist history if you support secret police and puppet governments.
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Suggesting that the Shah was a puppet Government is rather absurd; but I am sure you would like to share some PROOF supporting your false assertions?

As for the secret police, what is different TODAY in Iran than when the Shah ruled other than Iranians could actually make money and come and go from Iran when they wanted to when the Shah ruled?

Do you think they do not still have secret police and incarcerate innocents without cause at will? Do you think Iranians have MORE freedoms than they had during the Shah’s reign? Do you think it is okay for the current regime to suppress dissent with force but was wrong when the Shah did it?

I am always fascinated when Liberals rail about the policies of Dictatorships the US supports but then are silent when they become dictatorships that hate the US. Why is that?
 
zimmer said:
The rub is we are not leaving.
Obama said he would leave 50 to 60 thousand troops.


I am describing success.
Constitution. Free elections. Turning a former foe and hostile member into an ally.

Brothers At War

Different time. The was Communist expansion all over the world.

It's not debatable. Iraq was a modern country in the early 1970's.
We used precision weapons... not carpet bombing.

For Iraq. It's a lot of what we heard. Bush is an idiot, he has no plan, we have one that's "Smarter and Better".
I remember the chorus line well.

Clinton let the UN run the show.
He got up to 16 UN Sanctions.
UN Inspecteurs of the Sorte were kicked out.
Clinton did next to nothing; had Dick Morris take a poll, and then flapped his gums... that's about all.

.
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Bravo :applaud Great retort.
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The President needs to change his seal so the eagle looks the other way.
 
zimmer said:
The rub is we are not leaving.
Obama said he would leave 50 to 60 thousand troops.
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Well according to the plan Obama presented and our agreement with the Iraqi government those troops will be gone by 2011 as well.

Maybe things have changed since early March and now we've decided to violate our agreement but I haven't heard of it. My bet is that you're just hearing what you want to hear.
zimmer said:
I am describing success.
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? ? The quote of yours was talking about Saddam's evils.

zimmer said:
Constitution. Free elections. Turning a former foe and hostile member into an ally.
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I'm sure you will do nothing but look at the parts you want to see there. Apparently there is no cost too great for those things in your imagination. I can't show you a balance sheet if you won't add things up.

zimmer said:
Different time. The was Communist expansion all over the world.
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Yes times have changed, but Iran's influence in the region is still unwanted by the US and it has increased with the weakened condition of the Iraqi state.
zimmer said:
It's not debatable. Iraq was a modern country in the early 1970's.
We used precision weapons... not carpet bombing.
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We used precision bombing to disable their infrastructure, that is: bomb them into the stone age.

Saddam was a brutal tyrant, but he also an effective force of modernization and secularization in Iraq. That's why we backed him against Iran.
zimmer said:
For Iraq. It's a lot of what we heard. Bush is an idiot, he has no plan, we have one that's "Smarter and Better".
I remember the chorus line well.
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You're talking about what happened after dubya's started fighting again. I'm not sure why you think that's relevant to the discussion.

zimmer said:
Clinton let the UN run the show.
He got up to 16 UN Sanctions.
UN Inspecteurs of the Sorte were kicked out.
Clinton did next to nothing; had Dick Morris take a poll, and then flapped his gums... that's about all.
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Are you just venting about Clinton here? I thought we were discussing sanctions.
 
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winston53660 said:
yeah i guess it is revisionist history if you support secret police and puppet governments.
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Secret police and puppet governments have no bearing on you revising history. :lamo
 
cascadian said:
I'm sure you will do nothing but look at the parts you want to see there. Apparently there is no cost too great for those things in your imagination. I can't show you a balance sheet if you won't add things up.
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Cost?
Please explain.
On what fronts, or on all fronts?

When there is success and you can define it... define it.
I did.

We have had successes. We have had setbacks which is normal in war.
We have had Democrats and the AMMP (Democrat Propagandists) aid the enemy on a daily basis in what seemed like you folks were hoping for setbacks.

Scan0022.jpg


It isn't our side that denies success and treats our troops like enemies.

Success is the last thing the left wanted.

In fact Senate Majority Leader Reid (S-NV), speaking for Democrats, said "The Iraq War is Lost."
I think DJ Ali created a Nr.1 hit in the region from scratching Reid's "The Iraq War is lost" statement over and over.
Al Jazeera and other Arab stations just about wore out the Reid clip.

YouTube - Harry Reid: "The Iraq War is lost."
YouTube - Harry Reid won't listen to General Petraeus
 
Truth Detector said:
So you think equating the current recession as equal to the "great depression" isn't “chicken little” and an attempt to fear monger in an effort to promote a Liberal agenda that is sinking this nation into a 9.3 trillion deficit for the next nine years?

You have a funny definition of the term; but this can be explained by your "selective" outrage at those on the "right."

Carry on.
:cool:
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I'm technically on the right, so your statement is pretty amusing. I just call bull**** when I see it, and there are a few people in this thread who bitched when people were bashing Bush, only to turn around and lambaste Obama.
 
zimmer said:
I take it as an honor that you only gave my quote a 1 to 10 rating.

My reasoning is based on history.
Begging is weakness.
Obama did nothing.
In fact, they pissed all over his olive branch.
"Death to America" was chanted as the bearded guy was speaking.
THAT WAS THE MESSAGE... "DEATH TO AMERICA"

Here is a segment from a Presidential Brief to Ronald Reagan.
I think the logic is quite good considering the guy who wrote it knows the area, it's history and its customs... cold.

You might want to reverse that rating.
I'd say a 10 is fair.

And what is so "moronic" about my "absolute weakness" statement?



Obama was only grasping at straws.
AND USED THE BIGGEST STRAW FIRST.:doh
He looks weak to them.
To those in the region.

Does "DEATH TO AMERICA" when their leader is speaking mean anything?

Iranian Bugs:
Errr ahhh... What's up Doc?
What a ya gonna give me Big Guy?

.
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Ummm... The "Moron Rating" was your scale. I did not give you anything on it, I was quoting your asinine post. Do you spew out so much BS that you forget which is yours?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/1057965584-post2.html

zimmer said:
]Is it a new start or "overcharge"?

Naive.
Foolish.
These people are going to use and abuse Obama like they did Carter.

Now we know what Carter was doing at the White House.

Explaining how to handle the Iranians Carter style.

Maybe Obama will send his good buddy Khalidi as envoy.

On the 1 to 10 MORON SCALE... this is a 9.
Why?
Because these folks see this as a signal of absolute weakness.


http://www.herbcohenonline.com/PDF/U...DING_ISLAM.pdf
http://www.herbcohenonline.com/PDF/F...nd%20Media.pdf
http://www.herbcohenonline.com/PDF/F...6%20Reagan.pdf
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zimmer said:
Cost?
Please explain.
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I've been doing as much the whole time in this thread, but thanks for asking anyway.
zimmer said:
We have had Democrats and the AMMP (Democrat Propagandists) aid the enemy on a daily basis in what seemed like you folks were hoping for setbacks.
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When you start seeing mainstream political parties as traitors it should really be a clue that you're looking at the world through a pinhole.
zimmer said:
Success is the last thing the left wanted.
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I don't know anyone that didn't want democracy for Iraq or doesn't want the troops home ASAP. Do you define "success" by a permanent US presence? That's what the left doesn't want.
 
GottaHurt said:
More revisionist history. Carters meddling was the demise of the Shah's regime which is why we are where we are with them today.
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WRONG. It was the overthrow of the democratically elected government and installation of the Shah (so oil profits could continue) by the CIA which got us to where we are with them today... actually, that and Bush 43 labeling them as part of the axis of evil even when they were originally helping us with Afghanistan.
 
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