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Ex-Bush admin official: Many at Gitmo are innocent

Hatuey

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Ex-Bush admin official: Many at Gitmo are innocent

Many detainees locked up at Guantanamo were innocent men swept up by U.S. forces unable to distinguish enemies from noncombatants, a former Bush administration official said Thursday. "There are still innocent people there," Lawrence B. Wilkerson, a Republican who was chief of staff to then-Secretary of State Colin Powell, told The Associated Press. "Some have been there six or seven years."

Wilkerson, who first made the assertions in an Internet posting on Tuesday, told the AP he learned from briefings and by communicating with military commanders that the U.S. soon realized many Guantanamo detainees were innocent but nevertheless held them in hopes they could provide information for a "mosaic" of intelligence.

"It did not matter if a detainee were innocent. Indeed, because he lived in Afghanistan and was captured on or near the battle area, he must know something of importance," Wilkerson wrote in the blog. He said intelligence analysts hoped to gather "sufficient information about a village, a region, or a group of individuals, that dots could be connected and terrorists or their plots could be identified."

Wilkerson, a retired Army colonel, said vetting on the battlefield during the early stages of U.S. military operations in Afghanistan was incompetent with no meaningful attempt to discriminate "who we were transporting to Cuba for detention and interrogation."

Wilkerson, who flew combat missions as a helicopter pilot in Vietnam and left the government in January 2005, said he did not speak out while in government because some of the information was classified. He said he feels compelled to do so now because Cheney has claimed in recent press interviews that President Barack Obama is making the U.S. less safe by reversing Bush administration policies toward terror suspects, including ordering Guantanamo closed.

And so Colin Powell and his people continue to be a thorn on the side of the Bush administration. I wonder if as time goes by more and more stories like this will surface.

**** Somebody please move this to Breaking News. Thanks. Didn't see where I was posting.
 
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Wilkerson wrote that "U.S. leadership became aware of this lack of proper vetting very early on and, thus, of the reality that many of the detainees were innocent of any substantial wrongdoing, had little intelligence value, and should be immediately released."

Former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Vice President Dick Cheney fought efforts to address the situation, Wilkerson said, because "to have admitted this reality would have been a black mark on their leadership."

Wilkerson told the AP in a telephone interview that many detainees "clearly had no connection to al-Qaida and the Taliban and were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Pakistanis turned many over for $5,000 a head."
Ex-Bush admin official: Many at Gitmo are innocent

I haven't followed this story religiously, so maybe this isn't news to some. This the most damning assessment I've seen from someone that was in the Bush admin though. Also, it's a very interesting rejoinder to Cheney's recent remarks.
 
This isn't surprising at all. There has been criticism of the entire process from the very beginning and now you have somebody from inside basically validating some of the concerns about Gitmo. Given the information that has come out about many of the detainees I have no doubt that this mans information is a fair assessment of the situation there.

Of course, I would like to see more come out, but this is certainly another damning piece of information.
 
Right Wing Radicals : HE'S LYING! HE'S LYING....

in 3....2....1.......
 
Some of the people who ended up as detainees were at Gitmo because a neighbor didn't like them and reported them as terrorists.
 
Some of the people who ended up as detainees were at Gitmo because a neighbor didn't like them and reported them as terrorists.

I was held in Gitmo for 136 days because ToT told Cheney I hated the troops. They checked my voter registration card and picked me up the next day.
 
Right Wing Radicals : HE'S LYING! HE'S LYING....

in 3....2....1.......

Actually, he's just another rather boring mid-level Washington type who never really amounted to much... but who discovered that 'speaking out' brings a certain reward:

SINCE starting to speak out a few months ago, Mr. Wilkerson has become something of a Washington celebrity. He has given interviews and speeches, appeared on television, written op-ed articles and taken telephone calls from journalists and senators.

He has juggled book offers but says he has no plans to write anything that would seem to exploit his newfound fame. Soon he will begin teaching jobs at George Washington University and the College of William and Mary, where he may write a book on presidential decision-making since World War II.
Common Dreams

:2wave:
 
Actually, he's just another rather boring mid-level Washington type who never really amounted to much... but who discovered that 'speaking out' brings a certain reward:

Common Dreams

:2wave:

Attack the messenger right? Always a good tactic if you don't have the resources to attack the debunk the information I suppose, but still quite transparent. I think it's funny you believe him to be a boring nobody that didn't amount to much...I mean the Chief of Staff to the Secretary of State...pshhhh....that's nothing to talk about now is it?

:rofl

Seriously, you don't need to go there.
 
AP IMPACT: Many Iraqis held by US to go free

CAMP BUCCA, Iraq – Thousands of Iraqis held without charge by the United States on suspicion of links to insurgents or militants are being freed by this summer because there is little or no evidence against them.

Their release comes as the U.S. prepares to turn over its detention system to the fledgling Iraqi government by early 2010. In the six years since the war began, the military ultimately detained some 100,000 suspects, many of whom were picked up in U.S.-led raids during a raging, bloody insurgency that has since died down.

I wonder if they will release the most crazed first or last?
 
Something worth noting: These two quotes:

Wilkerson, who flew combat missions as a helicopter pilot in Vietnam and left the government in January 2005, said he did not speak out while in government because some of the information was classified. He said he feels compelled to do so now because Cheney has claimed in recent press interviews that President Barack Obama is making the U.S. less safe by reversing Bush administration policies toward terror suspects, including ordering Guantanamo closed.

and

SINCE starting to speak out a few months ago, Mr. Wilkerson has become something of a Washington celebrity.

Make it sound like this guy just recently had a change of heart. In actuality, he's been aggressively pushing similar claims for the past 4 years and has had many of his claims disputed.

During an October 19, 2005 speech at the New America Foundation, Wilkerson criticized the intelligence community which compiled the Iraq War intelligence.
“ I can’t tell you why the French, the Germans, the Brits and us thought that most of the material, if not all of it, that we presented at the U.N. on 5 February 2003 was the truth ”

— Lawrence Wilkerson, New America Foundation, October 19 2005[4]

In an interview that aired on the PBS news magazine NOW on PBS in Spring 2006 Wilkerson claimed that the speech Powell made before the United Nations on Feb. 5, 2003, laying out a case for war with Iraq, included falsehoods of which Powell had never been made aware. He said, "My participation in that presentation at the UN constitutes the lowest point in my professional life. I participated in a hoax on the American people, the international community and the United Nations Security Council."

The facts of which have been disputed by numerous state and defense department officials, Wilkerson claimed in an interview on BBC Newsnight, January 17, 2007, that an Iranian offer to help stabilise Iraq after the American invasion, was positively received at the State Department, yet turned down by Dick Cheney.[6] The offer supposedly consisted of help in stabilizing Iraq, cutting ties with Hezbollah and greater transparency in its nuclear program in return for lifting sanctions and dismantling the Mujahedeen-e Khalq, an organisation working to overthrow the Iranian government.

".... You compare Bill Clinton's peccadilloes for which he was impeached to George Bush's high crimes and misdemeanors or Dick Cheney's high crimes and misdemeanors, and I think they pale in significance."

In April 2007, Wilkerson was featured in VPRO's Tegenlicht Dutch documentary The Israel Lobby. He said that the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) was highly influential in the Bush Administration's decision to go to war in Iraq.

I don't know why it's a surprise that the guy is continuing to say bad things about the government.
 
Attack the messenger right? Always a good tactic if you don't have the resources to attack the debunk the information I suppose, but still quite transparent. I think it's funny you believe him to be a boring nobody that didn't amount to much...I mean the Chief of Staff to the Secretary of State...pshhhh....that's nothing to talk about now is it?

:rofl

Seriously, you don't need to go there.

The information should be supported by evidence before I'd bother to try to debunk it. What we have right now is the unsubstantiated claim of a guy who's spent the past 4 years ragging on the Bush Administration. I'm not ready to consider it gospel yet.
 
The information should be supported by evidence before I'd bother to try to debunk it. What we have right now is the unsubstantiated claim of a guy who's spent the past 4 years ragging on the Bush Administration. I'm not ready to consider it gospel yet.

Come on RNYC...how long has this issue plagued the Bush administration? How many times have we learned of innocent individuals being detained at Gitmo? The guy had an inside view of the vipers nest and has been speaking out. But because he's been speaking out for a while and the government officials have disputed (not debunked) his claims he's not credible? Let's see how long this kind of thing has been thrown in our face.

Exclusive: Innocent Men in Legal Limbo Still at Gitmo.
Innocent Afghan Detainees At Gitmo?
Guantánamo three released from custody.
Wilting Dreams At Gitmo.
Day 1: America's prison for terrorists often held the wrong men.
Morocco acquits five former Guantanamo inmates.

This guy is simply confirming what so many people already know, what has been exposed as a major problem of the Bush administration and it's policies regarding Gitmo. I don't care how many times officials "dispute his claims" there is evidence aplenty to back up this guys story right in front of our faces. It comes in the form of a slew of innocent men, held for years, being released without so much as a "thanks for playing."
 
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Come on RNYC...how long has this issue plagued the Bush administration? How many times have we learned of innocent individuals being detained at Gitmo? The guy had an inside view of the vipers nest and has been speaking out. But because he's been speaking out for a while and the government officials have disputed (not debunked) his claims he's not credible? Let's see how long this kind of thing has been thrown in our face.

Exclusive: Innocent Men in Legal Limbo Still at Gitmo.
Innocent Afghan Detainees At Gitmo?
Guantánamo three released from custody.
Wilting Dreams At Gitmo.
Day 1: America's prison for terrorists often held the wrong men.
Morocco acquits five former Guantanamo inmates.

This guy is simply confirming what so many people already know, what has been exposed as a major problem of the Bush administration and it's policies regarding Gitmo. I don't care how many times officials "dispute his claims" there is evidence aplenty to back up this guys story right in front of our faces. It comes in the form of a slew of innocent men, held for years, being released without so much as a "thanks for playing."

You're conflating two different things here.

Were there people at Guantanamo who turned out to be innocent? Yes.
Are there probably still people at Guantanamo who will turn out to be innocent (in court, at least)? Yes.

What he is claiming is that the government knows that particular individuals are innocent and are nevertheless keeping those particular individuals at Guantanamo and have been doing so for years, for reasons that don't seem to make much sense.

To the best of my knowledge, he's the first person to make that claim, which is why it's in the headlines. The reason why I'm not sold on that claim is that there's no evidence to support it other than his statements.

(The Uighurs are a totally different case, as the reason they're being kept at Guantanamo is that there literally isn't anywhere to send them. They don't want to go back to China.)
 
You're conflating two different things here.

Were there people at Guantanamo who turned out to be innocent? Yes.
Are there probably still people at Guantanamo who will turn out to be innocent (in court, at least)? Yes.

What he is claiming is that the government knows that particular individuals are innocent and are nevertheless keeping those particular individuals at Guantanamo and have been doing so for years, for reasons that don't seem to make much sense.

To the best of my knowledge, he's the first person to make that claim, which is why it's in the headlines. The reason why I'm not sold on that claim is that there's no evidence to support it other than his statements.

(The Uighurs are a totally different case, as the reason they're being kept at Guantanamo is that there literally isn't anywhere to send them. They don't want to go back to China.)

Almost all of those articles indicate that the military knew fairly quickly these men were innocent yet detained them beyond any reasonable time frame. If the military commanders at Gitmo knew, Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Bush knew. Why should we believe anything has changed with regard to that practice?
 
US right wing = in denial... as usual.
 
Attack the messenger right? Always a good tactic if you don't have the resources to attack the debunk the information I suppose, but still quite transparent. I think it's funny you believe him to be a boring nobody that didn't amount to much...I mean the Chief of Staff to the Secretary of State...pshhhh....that's nothing to talk about now is it?

:rofl

Seriously, you don't need to go there.

I'll bet dollars to donuts if I sift through your 8,500 some odd posts on this board I'll find plenty of attacks on messengers you find unappealing.

;)
 
Almost all of those articles indicate that the military knew fairly quickly these men were innocent yet detained them beyond any reasonable time frame.

Actually, not one of the articles says anything like that.

-The first article is talking about the Uighurs
-The second article is referring to a guy who was released in May 2003.
-The people in the third article were released to be prosecuted abroad, not because the US concluded they were innocent.
-The guy in the fourth article was determined not to classify as an enemy combatant in 2006 and was promptly sent back to Saudi Arabia.
-The guy in the fifth article was determined not to qualify as an enemy combatant in 2006 and was sent back to Afghanistan within 30 days.
-The guys in the sixth article were sent back to Morocco to be prosecuted in 2004, but were later acquitted on many of the charges.

In none of those situations did the government knowingly keep innocent people at Guantanamo without reason.
 
Some of the people who ended up as detainees were at Gitmo because a neighbor didn't like them and reported them as terrorists.

It is what happens when you fight cowards.
Cowards that hide in schools, hospitals, and Mosques.
Cowards that won't wear uniforms.
Just cowards.

Sometimes you get the wrong people... that's life.

Some of this is bound to happen.
It is part of the fog in this war.
If anything it should piss off the locals... about the Cowards, not those trying to free them of the Cowards.

What about the 10 Pakistani civilians that Obama had vaporized?
I bet they wish they were in Guantanamo right now.

The Libs... they believe war is a game of perfect.

PS.
I'd put Bush's record concerning detainees against FDR's any day.
Or against Clinton's wholesale neglect.

Dereliction of Duty: Eyewitness ... - Google Book Search

Unlimited Access: An FBI Agent ... - Google Book Search

They're free... have a gander at the fahque up known as Bill Clinton.

.
 
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Some of the people who ended up as detainees were at Gitmo because a neighbor didn't like them and reported them as terrorists.

They didn't have to be dislike by the neighbors it was enough that neighbors cared more about getting a big bounty reward then their neighbor. Money goes a long way ecpecially in a poor country like Afghanistan. That is why it is really sad that the USA goverment didn't do more to check out if the person arrested was a terrorist or just an easy profit for a farmer.
 
Wilkerson, who flew combat missions as a helicopter pilot in Vietnam and left the government in January 2005, said he did not speak out while in government because some of the information was classified. He said he feels compelled to do so now because Cheney has claimed in recent press interviews that President Barack Obama is making the U.S. less safe by reversing Bush administration policies toward terror suspects, including ordering Guantanamo closed.



Disseminating classified material after you retire is still a very serious crime. And if one does not have the integrity to honor the oath, everything else he says is suspect.



BTW hatuey, will you be volunteering your town for them to be released into?

And if they are "innocent" then I look foward to you attacking Obama now until they are released.
 
Disseminating classified material after you retire is still a very serious crime. And if one does not have the integrity to honor the oath, everything else he says is suspect.



BTW hatuey, will you be volunteering your town for them to be released into?

And if they are "innocent" then I look foward to you attacking Obama now until they are released.

Yes it is extremely important to keep a persons innocence top secret:roll:
 
I wonder if those who seem flippant would feel the same had one of those innocent detainees were a family member.
 
This guy is simply confirming what so many people already know, what has been exposed as a major problem of the Bush administration and it's policies regarding Gitmo.

What so many people already know? What people?

Major problem? What problem?

What we have is the typical rhetoric from the left wing nut attack machine that has been debunked every step of the way in regard to Gitmo.

I don't care how many times officials "dispute his claims" there is evidence aplenty to back up this guys story right in front of our faces.

Of course you don't care, you've formulated a biased left wing opinion without any facts, so naturally you're going to cling to any anti Bush conspiracy theory.

You have priors.

You claim there's "evidence aplenty", yet provide none. :doh

It comes in the form of a slew of innocent men, held for years, being released without so much as a "thanks for playing."

Nothing like being an emo kid with this POS statement.

Let the military tribunals judge whether or not they're innocent. The tribunals are privy to the classified information to make a such decision.
 
Actually, not one of the articles says anything like that.
Balderdash! :mrgreen:

-The first article is talking about the Uighurs
Who were captured in 2001 and cleared four years later (meaning they were innocent all along). That's beyond reasonable. The fact that we can't send innocent men back to their nation is no reason to keep them in custody. You relocate them somewhere outside of Gitmo and work to place them somewhere they can live in poeace to make up for the fact that you took their freedom for four years.
-The second article is referring to a guy who was released in May 2003.
Who was captured in April of 2002, information was available within days that a mistake had been made in his capture, yet he was detained for over a year. That's beyond reasonable.
-The people in the third article were released to be prosecuted abroad, not because the US concluded they were innocent.
I'm sorry but you are incorrect. He was released because the British government requested his release, just like they did scores of other British nationals being held in Gitmo. The Spanish indictments were dropped. That speaks volumes about just how big of a threat these men were. The fact that they were in U.S. custody from 2002 to 2007 and they were never found to be actual enemy combatants or threats to America is appalling. Five years and no case. You're imprisoned for a half-decade on allegations that you are a terrorist/enemy combatant, then release without charges, sent home, arrested again, and then all charges are dropped. You don't have to say "they're innocent"...if they were guilty they'd still be in custody or at least have gone through and actual trial. That's beyond reasonable.
-The guy in the fourth article was determined not to classify as an enemy combatant in 2006 and was promptly sent back to Saudi Arabia.
What is prompt about a four year imprisonment of an innocent man in Gitmo? He was captured in 2002 and cleared in 2005 (meaning he was innocent all along), released in 2006. That's beyond reasonable.
-The guy in the fifth article was determined not to qualify as an enemy combatant in 2006 and was sent back to Afghanistan within 30 days.
Wrong again. He was an innocent man who taken into custody in 2003, was detained for three years, and then released because there was no case against him. That's beyond reasonable.
-The guys in the sixth article were sent back to Morocco to be prosecuted in 2004, but were later acquitted on many of the charges.
Three of those men were legitimate captures, just to be clear because I didn't clarify that, my concern is with the two who were innocent.

In none of those situations did the government knowingly keep innocent people at Guantanamo without reason.
There was information early on in many of these cases that the men were innocent, we just didn't move to verify it for one reason or another. Instead they languished in custody, even after cleared. Once those men were found to be non-combatants/non-terrorists we knew they were innocent and they should have been immediately released from the confinement of that camp. Even if we had to put them up in apartments on the island until we could properly relocate them.

The fact that we had innocent men in prison for years, being interrogated, is what is so troubling here. Either we are just very poor investigators or we knew and didn't care. I don't like either indictment.

I see merit in your assertion that our folks may not have known, but I simply do not believe we are that poor in our ability to gather evidence and make determinations in an expedient manner. We employ some damn good people in our military and intel services.
 
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