Concerns Over Popes Rejection of Condoms for Combating AIDS

kaya'08 · Mar 18, 2009

The French foreign ministry has voiced "sharp concern" following the Pope's rejection of condom use to fight Aids.

Benedict XVI, who is on a tour of Africa, said handing out condoms only increased the problem of HIV/Aids.

The Roman Catholic Church says marital fidelity and sexual abstinence are the best way to prevent the spread of HIV.

But France, echoing the reaction of some aid agencies, said it "voices extremely sharp concern over the consequences of [the Pope's comments]".

"While it is not up to us to pass judgment on Church doctrine, we consider that such comments are a threat to public health policies and the duty to protect human life," foreign ministry spokesman Eric Chevallier said.

This is why religion is seperated from state. The entire idea of the vatican needs to stop, and this sick, twisted old christian bag needs a kick up the butt. The consequences of his words will be enourmous, especially in Africa where christianity plays a big role in many societies. What do you guys think?

BBC NEWS | Europe | France chastises Pope on condoms

Goobieman · Mar 18, 2009

kaya'08 said:
This is why religion is seperated from state. The entire idea of the vatican needs to stop, and this sick, twisted old christian bag needs a kick up the butt. The consequences of his words will be enourmous, especially in Africa where christianity plays a big role in many societies. What do you guys think?

I think that you can disgaree all you want with the Pope, but you do so understanding that your disagreement means nothing.

BulletWounD · Mar 18, 2009

kaya'08 said:
This is why religion is seperated from state. The entire idea of the vatican needs to stop, and this sick, twisted old christian bag needs a kick up the butt. The consequences of his words will be enourmous, especially in Africa where christianity plays a big role in many societies. What do you guys think?

BBC NEWS | Europe | France chastises Pope on condoms

Africans have much, much, much bigger problems than needing condoms. You've got guys over there who think raping babies will cure them of AID's.

ludahai · Mar 18, 2009

The problem is not condoms. If anything, they can serve to excerbate the already existing cause for the rampant AIDS crisis - not only in Sub-Saharan Africa, but in other countries such as Thailand. The root of the problem is lack of women's empowerment and education. The men in these places think only of their own sexual gratification. Women are little more than objects in many of these societies. Do you honestly think condoms are going to solve this problem? That is like putting a bucket of water on a five-alarm blaze. The Pope is right. Condoms are not the solution. Wholesale changes in attitudes towards women and education are the only things that will solve the problem.

RightinNYC · Mar 18, 2009

kaya'08 said:
This is why religion is seperated from state.

This doesn't even make any sense.

The entire idea of the vatican needs to stop

wat

and this sick, twisted old christian bag needs a kick up the butt. The consequences of his words will be enourmous, especially in Africa where christianity plays a big role in many societies. What do you guys think?

I don't think he said anything that the church hasn't been saying for the past 50 years.

rathi · Mar 18, 2009

Condom manufacturers should sue the pope for libel. Its one thing to claim that condoms are not the right solution, that is simply unethical and leads to more deaths from aids. However, claiming that condoms increase the problems of aids is flat out not true and will lead to decrease in the usage of condom sales, which will result in lost revenue for the manufacturers. They should sue the pope for damages. There is a lot of precedent for this sort of case, and the pope is not above the law.

RightinNYC · Mar 19, 2009

rathi said:
Condom manufacturers should sue the pope for libel. Its one thing to claim that condoms are not the right solution, that is simply unethical and leads to more deaths from aids. However, claiming that condoms increase the problems of aids is flat out not true and will lead to decrease in the usage of condom sales, which will result in lost revenue for the manufacturers. They should sue the pope for damages. There is a lot of precedent for this sort of case, and the pope is not above the law.

It doesn't work that way. He's not saying "Condoms are ineffective at preventing the spread of HIV because the virus can still get through them" or something similar that is demonstrably untrue. What he said was that HIV is "a tragedy that cannot be overcome by money alone, that cannot be overcome through the distribution of condoms, which can even increase the problem." The obvious implication of that is that a policy of distributing condoms can lead to a society where there are more sexual partners, which can lead to a spread in HIV.

His claims might be incorrect or based on insufficient evidence, but they're nowhere near libelous.

new coup for you · Mar 19, 2009

I remain startling unconcerned.

Orion · Mar 19, 2009

As the world becomes more educated, fewer and fewer people will listen to the Pope's drivel.

Hatuey · Mar 19, 2009

ludahai said:
The problem is not condoms. If anything, they can serve to excerbate the already existing cause for the rampant AIDS crisis - not only in Sub-Saharan Africa, but in other countries such as Thailand. The root of the problem is lack of women's empowerment and education. The men in these places think only of their own sexual gratification. Women are little more than objects in many of these societies. Do you honestly think condoms are going to solve this problem? That is like putting a bucket of water on a five-alarm blaze. The Pope is right. Condoms are not the solution. Wholesale changes in attitudes towards women and education are the only things that will solve the problem.

Uganda's Decline in HIV/AIDS Prevalence Attributed to Increased Condom Use, Early Death From AIDS, Study Says - The Body

Increased condom use and premature deaths from AIDS-related diseases might be playing more of a role in declining HIV prevalence in Uganda than abstinence and fidelity, according to a study presented Wednesday at the 12th Conference on Retroviruses and Opportunistic Infections in Boston, the San Francisco Chronicle reports. Supporters of Uganda's ABC method -- which stands for Abstinence, Be faithful, use Condoms -- have "widely credited" the approach with lowering the country's HIV prevalence rate from 30% of adults in the early 1990s to under 10% currently (Russell, San Francisco Chronicle, 2/24). However, the results of the unpublished study -- which was conducted by researchers at the Columbia University Mailman School of Public Health, Johns Hopkins University and several Ugandan organizations -- "contradict" previous findings that attribute Uganda's declining HIV prevalence to initiatives promoting abstinence and faithfulness to one sexual partner, according to the Washington Post. According to study co-author Maria Wawer of Mailman School of Public Health, the researchers interviewed over a period of 10 years 10,000 people ages 15 to 49 living in 44 villages in the Rakai district of Uganda. They also collected blood and urine samples and asked about participants' health and behavior. Approximately 85% of Rakai's residents cooperated with the study, which also included treatment and prevention services (Brown, Washington Post, 2/24).

Frequent Male Condom Use Decreases Women's Risk of HPV Infection

The more consistently women's male sex partners use condoms, the less likely women are to acquire genital human papillomavirus (HPV) infection, according to a longitudinal study among newly sexually active young women.1 Compared with their counterparts whose male partners used condoms less than 5% of the time for vaginal intercourse, women whose partners used them at least half the time had a 50% lower risk of infection and women whose partners used them every time had a 70% lower risk. The pattern was similar in analyses restricted to types of HPV associated with a low risk of cervical cancer as well as those associated with a high risk.

How safe is sex with condoms?: an in-depth investigation of the condom use pattern during the last sex act in an urban area of Bangladesh | International Journal of Men's Health | Find Articles at BNET

Condoms may help prevent AIDS over the long term not only by blocking transmission of HIV but also protecting against other STIs. For instance, people with genital ulcerative STIs such as chancroid, genital human papillomavirus, herpes simplex, and syphilis are two to seven times more likely to become infected with HIV than people who do not have STIs (Diallo et al., 1992; Laga, Nzila, & Goeman, 1991). If a condom is not worn before penetration, the pre-ejaculatory fluid that contains HIV and sperm may be secreted inside the vagina. This pre-ejaculatory fluid increases the risk of HIV as well as pregnancy (Ilaria et al., 1992; Pudney, Oneta, Mayer, Seage, & Anderson, 1992; Trussell, 1998). In addition, the contact of the infected mucosal surface with an uninfected surface also facilitates transmission of a number of STIs (Sparling, 1990). Therefore, condoms can only be highly effective if they are used correctly and continuously throughout intercourse (De Visser & Smith, 2000).

Vatican: Pope opposes condom use to fight AIDS - Adnkronos Religion

Pope Benedict XVI said on Tuesday that condoms were not the answer to fighting AIDS, as he was about to arrive in Africa on his first visit as pontiff. "The problem cannot be overcome with the distribution of condoms. This only aggravates the problem," Benedict told the media as he flew to the western African country of Cameroon.

Instead, the pontiff said sexual abstinence was the best way to fight the deadly disease.

The Vatican has faced strong criticism over its opposition to the use of condoms despite findings by the United Nations' World Health Organisation that "consistent and correct" condom use reduces the risk of HIV infection by 90 percent.

Saying that condoms 'aggravate' the problem when they have in fact shown to stop the spread of disease is simply ridiculous. The pope is wrong about condoms. Abstinence programs? Fail. Condom usage? Pass. Anybody claiming otherwise is simply being an apologist for the Catholic Church's status quo on religious ignorance of all science that contradicts their belief. Let us all remember. Galileo was not tried for teaching a theory as fact. He was tried for heresy.

Laila · Mar 19, 2009

ludahai said:
The problem is not condoms. If anything, they can serve to excerbate the already existing cause for the rampant AIDS crisis - not only in Sub-Saharan Africa, but in other countries such as Thailand.

Condoms are not the solution. Wholesale changes in attitudes towards women and education are the only things that will solve the problem.

Condoms is not a solution but it is a wonderful starting place.

Muslim Sub Saharan Africa has little aids and not to the scale of other places, you get a step into where the Pope has his stranglehold and deathgrip and you notice it's off the roof.

I had a Nigerian catholic friend once, he refused to use a condom during sex and what do you know, he contracted HIV. I'd pity him but he got himself into that position

Perhaps Africans need to lighten up and realise Christianity is not all that if the Pope's stupidity is leading you to an early grave ...

.... Perfect time to spread the word of Allah =D :rofl

kaya'08 · Mar 19, 2009

Goobieman said:
I think that you can disgaree all you want with the Pope, but you do so understanding that your disagreement means nothing.

What do you mean, Goobieman? In the sense that the Pope will be the pope and we can disagree all we want about discouraging the use of condoms, but whatever we say, he will continue to discourage there use?

kaya'08 · Mar 19, 2009

RightinNYC said:
This doesn't even make any sense.

wat

I don't think he said anything that the church hasn't been saying for the past 50 years.

It does make sense, unless you cannot grasp the idea behind seperation of church and state. If religion played a role in politics, there stupid beliefs would cause all sorts of blunders like this one.
The past 50 years? The use of condoms have always been discouraged within the church, where have you been? Secondly, when the Vatican himself voices his concerns, the message the church is trying to get across becomes so much stronger and people begin to pay more attention, which can be dangerous.

Condoms is not a solution but it is a wonderful starting place.

Your absolutely right, but can the condom be overlooked? Not at all. It plays a significant role in combating AIDS in Africa.

Africans have much, much, much bigger problems than needing condoms. You've got guys over there who think raping babies will cure them of AID's.

Bloody hell :shock:

I remain startling unconcerned.

I couldnt care less.

The problem is not condoms. If anything, they can serve to excerbate the already existing cause for the rampant AIDS crisis

No, its not the problem. But its a major part of the problem.

BulletWounD · Mar 19, 2009

kaya'08 said:
Bloody hell :shock:

I **** you not. Ignorance is the biggest problem in Africa and that's not an easy fix. They need to do most of the work themselves and it's going to take a long time. I'm sure there are already programs out there to hand out condoms, but unless they want to go out of their way to get/use them it's pointless.

kaya'08 · Mar 19, 2009

BulletWounD said:
I **** you not. Ignorance is the biggest problem in Africa and that's not an easy fix. They need to do most of the work themselves and it's going to take a long time. I'm sure there are already programs out there to hand out condoms, but unless they want to go out of their way to get/use them it's pointless.

Its just the first ive heard of anything like that :shock:

And well, yeah, if they think raping babies is the cure for AIDS then they do have a long way to go.

RightinNYC · Mar 19, 2009

kaya'08 said:
It does make sense, unless you cannot grasp the idea behind seperation of church and state. If religion played a role in politics, there stupid beliefs would cause all sorts of blunders like this one.

The reasons behind the "separation of church and state" have nothing to do with whether someone thinks the opinions of a religious group are bad and everything to do with questions of minority rights, free expression and purity of religious experience.

The past 50 years? The use of condoms have always been discouraged within the church, where have you been?

The number 50 was used as a placeholder to point out the fact that nothing the Pope is saying. Hence, why this isn't a surprise. Hence, why I'm not sure why you're so up in arms over something everyone knows.

Secondly, when the Vatican himself voices his concerns, the message the church is trying to get across becomes so much stronger and people begin to pay more attention, which can be dangerous.

Right, the proper answer to speech you disagree with is....to cut off that speech. I would add "freedom of speech" to your list of things to look up, right under "separation of church and state."

Your absolutely right, but can the condom be overlooked? Not at all. It plays a significant role in combating AIDS in Africa.

So does monogamy, and it's the Pope's prerogative to push whichever one he feels like.

jamesrage · Mar 19, 2009

ludahai said:
The problem is not condoms. If anything, they can serve to excerbate the already existing cause for the rampant AIDS crisis - not only in Sub-Saharan Africa, but in other countries such as Thailand. The root of the problem is lack of women's empowerment and education. The men in these places think only of their own sexual gratification. Women are little more than objects in many of these societies. Do you honestly think condoms are going to solve this problem? That is like putting a bucket of water on a five-alarm blaze. The Pope is right. Condoms are not the solution. Wholesale changes in attitudes towards women and education are the only things that will solve the problem.

I agree. I think it is idiotic to think that dumping a **** load of condoms is somehow going to prevent aids.What is going to prevent aids is changing people's attitude about sex. They need to get off this whole personal gratification attitude about sex.These people arguing that somehow dropping a ****load of condoms on these people will stop aids are probably the same morons who think circumcision helps prevent aids.

RightinNYC · Mar 19, 2009

jamesrage said:
These people arguing that somehow dropping a ****load of condoms on these people will stop aids are probably the same morons who think circumcision helps prevent aids.

Er......it does.

Scarecrow Akhbar · Mar 19, 2009

kaya'08 said:
This is why religion is seperated from state. The entire idea of the vatican needs to stop, and this sick, twisted old christian bag needs a kick up the butt. The consequences of his words will be enourmous, especially in Africa where christianity plays a big role in many societies. What do you guys think?

BBC NEWS | Europe | France chastises Pope on condoms

Condoms aren't 100% reliable.

Just tell people to not have sex with infected people.

Isolation colonies for the infectious is a good place to start.

kaya'08 · Mar 19, 2009

The reasons behind the "separation of church and state" have nothing to do with whether someone thinks the opinions of a religious group are bad and everything to do with questions of minority rights, free expression and purity of religious experience.

I realize that fully. But sometimes there "opinions" do not allow minority rights and freedom of expression, so in a way, seperation of state and church is partially because we disagree with there opinions, because from an honest, decent, realistic point of view, there opinions can be bad despite how good they believe there actions or beliefs may be. Which is why religion can be dangerous when mixed with politics. If they did have an official place in politics and they stopped us from using condoms, what would the affects of that be? Easier transmission of STD's along with many other negative affects. Which is why, and ill say it again, seperation of church and state is good! Because many of there opinions do not match the ideals of a democracy in a modern nation, and now they no longer have a say in our politics, progression will be all that easier!

RightinNYC · Mar 19, 2009

kaya'08 said:
I realize that fully. But sometimes there "opinions" do not allow minority rights and freedom of expression, so in a way, seperation of state and church is partially because we disagree with there opinions. Which is why religion can be dangerous when mixed with politics. If they did have an official place in politics and they stopped us from using condoms, what would the affects of that be? Easier transmission of STD's along with many other negative affects. Which is why, and ill say it again, seperation of church and state is good! And how about people, paticularly young people, who get raped and wish to seek an abortion? People who do not want children, who want sex without having to worry about becoming pregnant?

So now you've gone from saying that "the entire vatican needs to stop" to saying that religious institutions should not control the political process. I agree with that.

kaya'08 · Mar 19, 2009

So now you've gone from saying that "the entire vatican needs to stop" to saying that religious institutions should not control the political process. I agree with that.

Well ideally, i would like the entire vatican to stop completely, but i know that wont happen and its unrealistic to think it will, because i also respect the fact the vatican is important to many religious people. So the second best think i can come up with is religious institutions not having any kind of role in the political process

But this includes the vatican getting involved in any type of national or international political thing, which includes there opinions on a paticular war, or issue, or matter, whether the holocaust happened or not, how we should combat AIDS by NOT using condoms, etc etc. They should just keep to themselves a bit more.

Dr_Patrick · Mar 19, 2009

kaya'08 said:
Well ideally, i would like the entire vatican to stop completely, but i know that wont happen and its unrealistic to think it will, because i also respect the fact the vatican is important to many religious people. So the second best think i can come up with is religious institutions not having any kind of role in the political process
But this includes the vatican getting involved in any type of national or international political thing, which includes there opinions on a paticular war, or issue, or matter, whether the holocaust happened or not, etc etc. They should just keep to themselves a bit more.

Unfortunately that will never happen because people in power have religious beliefs and are bound to be influenced by them when making decisions.

BulletWounD · Mar 19, 2009

dclxvinoise said:
Unfortunately that will never happen because people in power have religious beliefs and are bound to be influenced by them when making decisions.

Thank God we're not all running to Anton LaVey for advice.

Dr_Patrick · Mar 19, 2009

BulletWounD said:
Thank God we're not all running to Anton LaVey for advice.

Well, he's dead. That would be a little hard to do. Regardless, I don't see how Anton LaVey's influence would somehow be harmful. Do you know anything about Satanism?

Concerns Over Popes Rejection of Condoms for Combating AIDS

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