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Selling sex legally in New Zealand

Psychoclown said:
talloulou: I've asked this indirectly, but I'll ask it directly now. What is your standard or reason for wanting to ban prostitituion? And then I want to ask are you comfortable using that reasoning to ban other activities? So far you've listed a few ...

Morality: By this argument, depending on who's morality we go by, sex outside of marriage, lying, dancing with the opposite sex, vulgar language, immodest clothing, and numerous other things would be open to banning.

I don't want my children doing it: Again, many things would be eligible to be banned under this standard. Vulgarity, promiscuity, lying, alcoholism, pornography, appearing on Jerry Springer - they would all be criminal acts.

Poor working conditions for the prostitutes themsevles: Non-union physical laborers often have very poor working conditions. Fast food or low end service workers have pretty lousy jobs with little pay or benefits as well. Should these be banned as well?

Side affects (i.e. sex slaves, human trafficing, ect.): Landscapers are notorious for hiring illegal aliens. Should we ban the landscaping profession because it contributes to illegal immigration?

I'm curious if you're comfortable with any of these reasonings being the basis for determining if an activity should be legal. If not, are you willing to admit that you're just drawing an arbitrary line on prostitution based on your own preferences?
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Relationships and sex should not be a commodity. Sex should be treated with a certain deference. It is not something to be put up for sale.

I realize these are my morals. I also realize they are shared by many and I have no issue whatsoever with creating a legal barrier between sex & retail on the basis that lots of folks see it as unethical.
 
Jerry said:
Even assuming she handled her finances correctly (being debt free except the mortgage, emergency fund which could support her for 6-12 month, taking a 15 year loan with 20% down, etc), assuming she couldn't take out a second mortgage on any existing equity, the most appropriate action here is to sell the home and rent until she gets back on her feet; not become a prostitute.
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Who are YOU to determine for her what her "most appropriate action" is? Maybe she wanted to keep the house.

Jerry said:
Even though "shaman" is a much older profession than "prostitute", the earliest records of prostitution (Third Dynasty of Ur c. 2050 B.C.) show that they were slaves.

Some "profession" :roll:
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Soldiers were once slaves too. In some parts of the world, they still are. What's your point?
 
talloulou said:
I am absolutely superior to women who do this and will be for as long as they continue to do so.
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If you feel that you are better than a woman who is a prostitute, that is great, but it is not grounds for stopping someone from doing it.

I think we are conditioned to believe certain things about certain professions and those ideas are carried over to our adulthood without any real justification. The brothels in Nevada are the perfect example of legalized prostitution gone well. That is part of what I base my opinion on, not the social stigmas that I had no part in creating.
 
rivrrat said:
Two bucks? Where the **** do you live? Guys didn't get to LOOK at me for $2. They couldn't even touch me for less than $400. My average trick paid me $600-800 And hell, as far as high class call girls go, I was inexpensive.
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:rofl Yeah OK. You're KayleighKatz, the X Rated Version. Gotcha. :2wave:

(ps didn't know you had been raped or beaten. Though we obviously disagree on the subject at hand, I am truly sorry you suffered. No one deserves that).
 
talloulou said:
Relationships and sex should not be a commodity. Sex should be treated with a certain deference. It is not something to be put up for sale.

I realize these are my morals. I also realize they are shared by many and I have no issue whatsoever with creating a legal barrier between sex & retail on the basis that lots of folks see it as unethical.
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Heck I find politics unethical....Let's make politics illegal J)
 
Alex said:
If you feel that you are better than a woman who is a prostitute, that is great, but it is not grounds for stopping someone from doing it.

I think we are conditioned to believe certain things about certain professions and those ideas are carried over to our adulthood without any real justification. The brothels in Nevada are the perfect example of legalized prostitution gone well. That is part of what I base my opinion on, not the social stigmas that I had no part in creating.
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Yeah so lets just ignore the fact that Nevada is one of the main destinations for human trafficking in the US. :roll:
 
The truth is, once is goes legal, these girls won't make that kind of money any more. They'll also get to pay taxes, so it won't be as lucrative in more ways than one. Maybe learning a trade isn't such a bad idea for the future.
 
talloulou said:
Yeah so lets just ignore the fact that Nevada is one of the main destinations for human trafficking in the US. :roll:
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What does human trafficking (something we all agree should remain illegal) have to do with consensual prostitution? It's like saying what someone else said above... landscaping should be illegal because it promote the illegal use of illegal aliens. In other words, It makes no goddamn sense.
 
talloulou said:
I'd rather my daughter work at McDonalds then be a whore.
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This is probably the best post yet...

For all of those supporting legalization, I'd like to see a show of hands. Would you rather see your daughter earn minimum wage at McDonald's or make $20 for a BJ?

Honest answers only!

:rofl
 
rivrrat said:
NOW you've insulted me. :2razz:


But I do hope you're not seriously implying I'm making it up.
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I don't know you from adam, so I have no idea. People can say whatever they want on the net and without tax records to back it up ...

I am feeling really badly for bringing up rape and assault not having known you've been through that. I feel like I sucker punched you when I really didn't mean to. It's really nothing women should throw out there at other women, so I'm sorry I went there.
 
rivrrat said:
So, we shouldn't allow the emergence of any more professions because it might tax our court system?:confused:
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Nah, just thinking out loud.

Like I said, I'm impervious to whether it's legal or not. Just like strip clubs, it's not my scene.
 
talloulou said:
Relationships and sex should not be a commodity. Sex should be treated with a certain deference. It is not something to be put up for sale.

I realize these are my morals. I also realize they are shared by many and I have no issue whatsoever with creating a legal barrier between sex & retail on the basis that lots of folks see it as unethical.
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So just so I'm clear, you're completely comfortable with morality of "lots of folks" being the basis for our laws?

If so, I hope you don't object to the laws in various Muslim countries that severely restrict women as they fit with the morality of "lots of folks" over there. Burkas, stoning for adultry, women must be escorted by men, all these sort of things are the morality of the majority in many Islamic nations. You don't find these objectionable? Furthermore, if there was ever a Muslim (or strict Christian) majority here, you wouldn't object to similar laws being created and enforced here in the US? Basically, are you ok with the establishing of a theocracy based on the morality of "lots of folks"?

The problem I have with morality entering into the legal system is simple. Who's morality do we use? You think prostitution is immoral. So do I. But you might think that alcohol is immoral where as I do not. Or I might think that sex outside of marriage is immoral, but you do not. So who's morality do we use there? If we go simply by the majority, then what we have is basically a mob rules society. Hardly ideal.
 
talloulou said:
Yeah so lets just ignore the fact that Nevada is one of the main destinations for human trafficking in the US. :roll:
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It is? That is news to me. Is there any articles to back that up and are humans being trafficed being forced into sex industry? I would think more human trafficing happens in TexasArizona and other border states
 
rivrrat said:
What does human trafficking (something we all agree should remain illegal) have to do with consensual prostitution? It's like saying what someone else said above... landscaping should be illegal because it promote the illegal use of illegal aliens. In other words, It makes no goddamn sense.
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Because when you use sex to make money and create a large demand for the buying of sex greedy folks (mostly men) are going to say, "Hey, you know what? We could be making 10 times what we're making now if only we had more whores. But we don't. How can we get some? Where can we get some?

Human trafficking exists here in the US. Nevada is one of the main destinations. Why? Because prostitution is legal there. The demand there for "buying sex" is higher than in places where it is not legal. They have more customers than they have voluntary whores.
 
Psychoclown said:
The problem I have with morality entering into the legal system is simple. Who's morality do we use? You think prostitution is immoral. So do I. But you might think that alcohol is immoral where as I do not. Or I might think that sex outside of marriage is immoral, but you do not. So who's morality do we use there? If we go simply by the majority, then what we have is basically a mob rules society. Hardly ideal.
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Well supposedly that's why we vote. But shee-it, that's not even working out these days.
 
winston53660 said:
It is? That is news to me. Is there any articles to back that up and are humans being trafficed being forced into sex industry? I would think more human trafficing happens in TexasArizona and other border states
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The US federal government believes Las Vegas is a top destination for "human trafficking" victims - from indentured servants to massage parlor workers and prostitutes held captive and forced to commit sex acts.

This belief has led the Justice Department to grant hundreds of thousands of dollars to Metro Police to tackle the problem.
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HumanTrafficking.org | News & Updates: US Justice Department Names Las Vegas Among 17 Most Likely Destinations
 
StandUpChuck said:
Well supposedly that's why we vote. But shee-it, that's not even working out these days.
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So again, you're ok with Taliban like morality laws as long as they are voted in?

And then why are you bashing New Zealand. They're democraticly elected government voted to legalize prostitution. That should be ok with you if voting is all that matters.
 
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talloulou said:
Oh is that what's happening in Amsterdam?:roll:
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Proper regulation of prostitution will not eliminate human trafficking (nothing will) but it will make it more difficult to engage in. The Bunny Ranch is a perfect model of legalized prostitution; safe, humane, and efficient. I realize you consider prostitution to be morally repugnant but this is no excuse to drive the practice underground where women have absolutely no recourse to legal protection or safe working environments.

The only way to ensure human trafficking occurs with regularity and virtual impunity is to create demand for it on the black market. Legalization and proper regulation will help eliminate this demand.
 
Psychoclown said:
So again, you're ok with Taliban like morality laws as long as they are voted in?

And then why are bashing New Zealand. They're Democraticly elected government voted to legalize prostitution. That should be ok with you if voting is all that matters.
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Morality will always have a basis in law. This doesn't mean you've suddenly opened yourself up to some crack pot religious take over.

Why can't a 34 year old man have sex with a 15 year old girl? Because she's a minor? So? What's wrong with screwing a minor?????
Morality.

Why can you give your kidney away but you can't sell it? Why aren't you allowed to sell or trade your organs????

Morality.

Why can't you have sex with dead people?

Morality.

Why can't you have sex with animals in most cities?

Morality.

I'm perfectly comfortable acknowledging that removal of the legal barrier between sex & retail fuels a demand that often leads to sex slaves and human trafficking thus it should be illegal. It's often associated with criminal activity thus it should be illegal. The women are often desperate when they get into the business and their health is measured often by their ability to get out of it thus it should be illegal.
 
talloulou said:
Yeah so lets just ignore the fact that Nevada is one of the main destinations for human trafficking in the US. :roll:
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That is a separate issue from prostitution. There is no evidence that any of the Nevada brothels engage in human trafficking.
 
Ethereal said:
Proper regulation of prostitution will not eliminate human trafficking (nothing will) but it will make it more difficult to engage in. The Bunny Ranch is a perfect model of legalized prostitution; safe, humane, and efficient. I realize you consider prostitution to be morally repugnant but this is no excuse to drive the practice underground where women have absolutely no recourse to legal protection or safe working environments.

The only way to ensure human trafficking occurs with regularity and virtual impunity is to create demand for it on the black market. Legalization and proper regulation will help eliminate this demand.
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You would think legalization would eliminate human trafficking. But around the world it's been just the opposite. So that ought to lead to a pause...
 
talloulou said:
Because when you use sex to make money and create a large demand for the buying of sex greedy folks (mostly men) are going to say, "Hey, you know what? We could be making 10 times what we're making now if only we had more whores. But we don't. How can we get some? Where can we get some?

Human trafficking exists here in the US. Nevada is one of the main destinations. Why? Because prostitution is legal there. The demand there for "buying sex" is higher than in places where it is not legal. They have more customers than they have voluntary whores.
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You do realize that those sex-slaves are going to Las Vegas, where prostitution is NOT legal, right?
 
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