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Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

Truth Detector said:
You would be wrong AGAIN; I can't handle rabid nonsense. :2wave:
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Oh so then you are for Marijuana being legal then right? Because if not, then you are FOR government intervention. A conservative that wants government interference. Go figure, Carry on :2wave:
 
Truth Detector said:
You would be wrong AGAIN; I can't handle rabid nonsense. :2wave:
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Then i advise you not read your posts pertaining in any way, to cannabis. :2wave:

I can wave too. Did you finally come to terms that legalization would decrease the number of illegal drug dealers peddling product at 50x the cost? Ill wait...
 
TheNextEra said:
Oh so then you are for Marijuana being legal then right? Because if not, then you are FOR government intervention. A conservative that wants government interference. Go figure, Carry on :2wave:
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I see you are moving beyond nonsensical to absurd. :2wave:
 
Goldenboy219 said:
Then i advise you not read your posts pertaining in any way, to cannabis. :2wave:

I can wave too. Did you finally come to terms that legalization would decrease the number of illegal drug dealers peddling product at 50x the cost? Ill wait...
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The notion that legalizing Pot will suddenly decrease the number of illegal drug dealers and significantly increase tax revenue is quite amusing.

But I don't like feeding troll like behavior like yours and others so I will let have your fun. :2wave:
 
Truth Detector said:
The notion that legalizing Pot will suddenly decrease the number of illegal drug dealers and significantly increase tax revenue is quite amusing.
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You have yet to set forth a valid argument that facilitates your position. If you cannot do so, i'll be forced to take it as your failure.


But I don't like feeding troll like behavior like yours and others so I will let have your fun. :2wave:
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Why even show your face in the thread if all you are trying to do is forgo debate in favor of pointless comments?

Wait the bold says it all:roll:
 
Goldenboy219 said:
You have yet to set forth a valid argument that facilitates your position. If you cannot do so, i'll be forced to take it as your failure.
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I am not the one making the specious assertions; I have yet to see you set forth a valid argument suggesting it will reduce the illegal drug trade or increase State Revenue.

Basically what we have here is a lot of emotional babble, speculation and conjecture.

I on the other hand can show you nations that have experimented with the legalization of drugs and have since rescinded them because their notions about legalization, much like yours, were false and naive.

Can you show me nations that have legalized Pot and are now reaping the benefits of it? I didn't think so; all you have is speculation, hyperbole and conjecture.

Carry on.
 
Truth Detector said:
I am not the one making the specious assertions; I have yet to see you set forth a valid argument suggesting it will reduce the illegal drug trade or increase State Revenue.

Basically what we have here is a lot of emotional babble, speculation and conjecture.

I on the other hand can show you nations that have experimented with the legalization of drugs and have since rescinded them because their notions about legalization, much like yours, were false and naive.

Can you show me nations that have legalized Pot and are now reaping the benefits of it? I didn't think so; all you have is speculation, hyperbole and conjecture.

Carry on.
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First and foremost, the Netherlands is very successful. Secondly, i am absolutely correct being that i have first hand knowledge about marijuana and people who sell it. Lastly, i did put forth a valid, sound, and logical economic argument as to why legalization reduces illicit drug sales.
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If drugs are legalized, more specifically cannabis, then what do you believe would happen to the price?

Also, please refrain from answering me with the exact same words i used, in which you replied to...
 
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Truth Detector said:
I on the other hand can show you nations that have experimented with the legalization of drugs and have since rescinded them because their notions about legalization, much like yours, were false and naive.
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Exactly. Discussion of other countries has been deemed irrelevant:

Ethereal said:
Secondly, neither of us can speak intelligently about foreign perceptions and legal history. I don't know why other countries decided to criminalize marijuana but neither do you, thus it is not relevant to our discussion. You cannot ask me to address the varied and unique legal circumstances of numerous countries in a comprehensive manner; each must be addressed separately within the appropriate context.
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I suspect because the problems encountered in those countries become problematical for some posters.
 
Grateful Heart said:
Exactly. Discussion of other countries has been deemed irrelevant:



I suspect because the problems encountered in those countries become problematical for some posters.
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Please source. Decriminalization and legalization are entirely different animals. Show me what country has legalized cannabis, just one. Then show me what countries have decriminalized the limited sale of cannabis in a commercial setting.

Ill wait.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
I find most people I come across that smoke weed daily, are usually about weed. As if it is there life. They weed before things like career, family, safety of there children, there own personal saftety, or anything of the like.

It no longer becomes about what ever activity they are doing, but more about how they can get high while doing whatever thing it is they are doing.

I find people like this limited in life and I pity them.


I have no respect for buffoons like this. Sure there are people who use marijuana responsibly, but just like the alcoholic, the chronic weed smoker is not the type of person I would hire, trust, or consider a value to society.



The idiocy, that making weed available could be the sole savior of the California economy is stupid. Nothing but the rantings of a weed first buffoon.


Oh and if weed is truly a medicine, it is immoral for California to tax it. Unless the whole thing is a sham.
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THis basically sums up the idiocy that Marijuana can help Commiefornia's economy. If its a medicine in the state of California they can't tax it,they can't tax the growers because they will pass the cost onto their customers. This a failed attempt by stoners trying to legalized weed with a bull**** argument.IF they want to legalize it for recreational use then petition their elected officials in their state to legalize it.Unless everyone in California smokes weed I do not see it helping california economy and why would anyone drive down to Commieforia passing through multiple states and cities with risk of getting caught in each place to buy weed when they can buy it off a dealer in their home state with less risk and much cheaper(cheaper than than the gas you would spend getting there).

I also heard them trying to use a similar idiotic notion in regard to liquor blue laws that allowing the sale of liquor on Sunday can boost the economy.Those that would usually buy up a lot of beer on Saturday would just go on Sunday,it wouldn't create extra customers it would just spread the customers they have now from 6 days to 7 days.
 
jamesrage said:
THis basically sums up the idiocy that Marijuana can help Commiefornia's economy. If its a medicine in the state of California they can't tax it,they can't tax the growers because they will pass the cost onto their customers. This a failed attempt by stoners trying to legalized weed with a bull**** argument.IF they want to legalize it for recreational use then petition their elected officials in their state to legalize it.Unless everyone in California smokes weed I do not see it helping california economy and why would anyone drive down to Commieforia passing through multiple states and cities with risk of getting caught in each place to buy weed when they can buy it off a dealer in their home state with less risk and much cheaper(cheaper than than the gas you would spend getting there).

I also heard them trying to use a similar idiotic notion in regard to liquor blue laws that allowing the sale of liquor on Sunday can boost the economy.Those that would usually buy up a lot of beer on Saturday would just go on Sunday,it wouldn't create extra customers it would just spread the customers they have now from 6 days to 7 days.
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Without cannabis, many parts of Northern California would collapse. There are a few counties that are heavily dependent on the proceeds form the illicit and legal sale of cannabis.

Also, liquor blue laws restrict the sale of alcohol on Sunday. Do you believe that reduces business revenue?
 
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I really am getting tired of page after page of specious arguments, distortions, generalizations, and general lack of willingness to actually debate the topic on substance.

If you want to argue against legalization, stop distorting, distracting, generalizing, and ignoring positions because it is inconvenient. Make your case so we can have an HONEST discussion on the subject.

I probably wasted my time typing this though, Ethereal made essentially the same plea 10 or 15 pages or so back, and others have as well. We are still waiting.
 
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Goldenboy219 said:
First and foremost, the Netherlands is very successful.
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Do you have anything to support this assertion? You know, proof? Perhaps you may want to start with YOUR definition of what is "successful."

If we look at the Netherlands, I would argue that they are anything BUT successful.


Goldenboy219 said:
Secondly, i am absolutely correct being that i have first hand knowledge about marijuana and people who sell it.
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I will need a little more proof than "because you say so." It is a funny quirk of mine, I expect people who make statements like yours to back them up with some substance.

As that famous commercial said; "where's the beef?"

Goldenboy219 said:
Lastly, i did put forth a valid, sound, and logical economic argument as to why legalization reduces illicit drug sales.
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I must have missed it; please point me to the thread where you made such a sound and logical argument as to why legalization reduces illicit drugs and the substantive proof that supports it.

Goldenboy219 said:
If drugs are legalized, more specifically cannabis, then what do you believe would happen to the price?
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Why are you asking me to support your argument; why don't you lay out what you believe will happen to the price of drugs if they are legalized?

Goldenboy219 said:
Also, please refrain from answering me with the exact same words i used, in which you replied to...
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Please refrain from arguments that basically suggest "because you say so."
 
jamesrage said:
THis basically sums up the idiocy that Marijuana can help Commiefornia's economy. If its a medicine in the state of California they can't tax it,they can't tax the growers because they will pass the cost onto their customers. This a failed attempt by stoners trying to legalized weed with a bull**** argument.IF they want to legalize it for recreational use then petition their elected officials in their state to legalize it.Unless everyone in California smokes weed I do not see it helping california economy and why would anyone drive down to Commieforia passing through multiple states and cities with risk of getting caught in each place to buy weed when they can buy it off a dealer in their home state with less risk and much cheaper(cheaper than than the gas you would spend getting there).

I also heard them trying to use a similar idiotic notion in regard to liquor blue laws that allowing the sale of liquor on Sunday can boost the economy.Those that would usually buy up a lot of beer on Saturday would just go on Sunday,it wouldn't create extra customers it would just spread the customers they have now from 6 days to 7 days.
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Laughing my "A" off on this one, how true! :funny:applaud

(particularly Commiefornia; gotta love that one)
 
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Goldenboy219 said:
Without cannabis, many parts of Northern California would collapse.
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Proof?


Goldenboy219 said:
There are a few counties that are heavily dependent on the proceeds form the illicit and legal sale of cannabis.
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Proof?

Goldenboy219 said:
Also, liquor blue laws restrict the sale of alcohol on Sunday. Do you believe that reduces business revenue?
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How is this related to the topic at hand? Do you think Blue Liquor laws do not reduce business revenue and if so how; in other words "proof?"
 
marduc said:
I really am getting tired of page after page of specious arguments, distortions, generalizations, and general lack of willingness to actually debate the topic on substance.

If you want to argue against legalization, stop distorting, distracting, generalizing, and ignoring positions because it is inconvenient. Make your case so we can have an HONEST discussion on the subject.
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If you want to argue FOR legalization, stop distorting, distracting, generalizing, and ignoring positions because it is inconvenient. Make your case so we can have an HONEST discussion on the subject.

Carry on. :2wave:
 
jamesrage said:
THis basically sums up the idiocy that Marijuana can help Commiefornia's economy. If its a medicine in the state of California they can't tax it,they can't tax the growers because they will pass the cost onto their customers.
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They already do tax medical marijuana, this has already been covered

This a failed attempt by stoners trying to legalized weed with a bull**** argument.
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Then actually counter our argument, many arguing for legalization in this very thread have never smoke marijuana.

IF they want to legalize it for recreational use then petition their elected officials in their state to legalize it.
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They have and they are, that is what the entire thread topic is about AB 390, a bill that is in committee right now in California.


Unless everyone in California smokes weed I do not see it helping california economy and why would anyone drive down to Commieforia passing through multiple states and cities with risk of getting caught in each place to buy weed when they can buy it off a dealer in their home state with less risk and much cheaper(cheaper than than the gas you would spend getting there).
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Well in that case since everyone does not drink, nor smoke then they should lift the taxes on them, they don't have ANY IMPACT on the economy or tax revenues.

What does people driving to Ca have to do with it?

I also heard them trying to use a similar idiotic notion in regard to liquor blue laws that allowing the sale of liquor on Sunday can boost the economy.Those that would usually buy up a lot of beer on Saturday would just go on Sunday,it wouldn't create extra customers it would just spread the customers they have now from 6 days to 7 days.
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If it is a Sunday and the football game is on and I want beer and I cannot get it in my county, and I drive to the other county to get it, does not that end up being less revenue for the county I live in??
 
Truth Detector said:
If you want to argue FOR legalization, stop distorting, distracting, generalizing, and ignoring positions because it is inconvenient. Make your case so we can have an HONEST discussion on the subject.

Carry on. :2wave:
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I have go back and read the thread.
 
Truth Detector said:
Do you have anything to support this assertion? You know, proof? Perhaps you may want to start with YOUR definition of what is "successful."

If we look at the Netherlands, I would argue that they are anything BUT successful.
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The Netherlands

Im sorry, i thought this was common knowledge.

Dutch Drug Policy Even More Effective

I will need a little more proof than "because you say so." It is a funny quirk of mine, I expect people who make statements like yours to back them up with some substance.

As that famous commercial said; "where's the beef?"
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Do you know any weed dealers? I do, and all of them, yes all do not want cannabis to be legalized. Yet i do not expect you to take this as evidence. Do you understand the economic nature of black markets? If so, please do explain.

I must have missed it; please point me to the thread where you made such a sound and logical argument as to why legalization reduces illicit drugs and the substantive proof that supports it.

Really...: http://www.debatepolitics.com/1057960715-post315.html



Why are you asking me to support your argument; why don't you lay out what you believe will happen to the price of drugs if they are legalized?
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I am asking what you believe would happen.



Please refrain from arguments that basically suggest "because you say so."
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Is the price of cannabis in the Netherlands cheaper than that of the US, with superior quality?
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Goldenboy219 said:
Please source. Decriminalization and legalization are entirely different animals. Show me what country has legalized cannabis, just one. Then show me what countries have decriminalized the limited sale of cannabis in a commercial setting.

Ill wait.
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I have to say this is one of the oddest threads in which I've ever participated. I continue to be meet with responses or challenges such as this that have zero bearing on the substance of my post. Zero.

For some reason, anyone posting in this thread who doesn't rush to support legalization is presumed to oppose it. As I've said earlier... I don't have a strong position one way or the other. While I've never been a pot smoker, I don't believe it's dangerous. What does concern me is that I've yet to see any coherent position as to what form 'legalization' would take.

As we know, countries such as Canada and the Netherlands haven't legalized marijuana in the true sense. But they have decriminalized possession of small amounts. Or even the sale of small amounts in 'coffee shops.' That is much different than legalization across the board. And frankly, I've yet to see anyone explain exactly what legalization would look like. Could you smoke it anywhere other than the privacy of your own home? Where would it be bought and sold? At 7-11 next to the cigarettes? At government controlled facilities? Could you buy any quantity you desire? Will there be national laws governing legalization? State laws? Or local laws? Could my state continue to keep it illegal? And if so, what penalty could be imposed on someone mistakenly crossing the border with a joint? Jail time? What about our International Treaty Obligations to prevent marijuana trafficking? Will be continue to uphold those obligations? Could you grow your own? Could you sell seeds and cultivate it in your back yard or in your greenhouse? How many plants could you grow? Or would there be no limit?

Considering the ease with which anti-smoking legislation seems to be passing these days, I see no reason to believe that pro-legalization folks will be happy letting local voters address most of these issues. I suspect they'd be quite disappointed in the outcome if any of this were placed on the ballot. That's no 'appeal to the majority.' That's simply reality. A reality that I've not seen faced seriously here so far.

I've asked questions like this before in the thread and have been met with vague answers. To say that we'll simply "treat it like cigarettes and alcohol" simply doesn't answer these questions.

What's the plan?

;)
 
Grateful Heart said:
What's the plan?

;)
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Many of the questions you have asked here you have asked previously and have had many people answer. These answers are all speculation on our part. Do you want the pro-legalization DP members to form a committee and develop a master plan for marijuana legalization that will be the guiding light for the future of our country??

This seems like a good plan to me:

AB 390 Assembly Bill - INTRODUCED
 
Grateful Heart said:
I have to say this is one of the oddest threads in which I've ever participated. I continue to be meet with responses or challenges such as this that have zero bearing on the substance of my post. Zero.

For some reason, anyone posting in this thread who doesn't rush to support legalization is presumed to oppose it. As I've said earlier... I don't have a strong position one way or the other. While I've never been a pot smoker, I don't believe it's dangerous. What does concern me is that I've yet to see any coherent position as to what form 'legalization' would take.

As we know, countries such as Canada and the Netherlands haven't legalized marijuana in the true sense. But they have decriminalized possession of small amounts. Or even the sale of small amounts in 'coffee shops.' That is much different than legalization across the board. And frankly, I've yet to see anyone explain exactly what legalization would look like. Could you smoke it anywhere other than the privacy of your own home? Where would it be bought and sold? At 7-11 next to the cigarettes? At government controlled facilities? Could you buy any quantity you desire? Will there be national laws governing legalization? State laws? Or local laws? Could my state continue to keep it illegal? And if so, what penalty could be imposed on someone mistakenly crossing the border with a joint? Jail time? What about our International Treaty Obligations to prevent marijuana trafficking? Will be continue to uphold those obligations? Could you grow your own? Could you sell seeds and cultivate it in your back yard or in your greenhouse? How many plants could you grow? Or would there be no limit?

Considering the ease with which anti-smoking legislation seems to be passing these days, I see no reason to believe that pro-legalization folks will be happy letting local voters address most of these issues. I suspect they'd be quite disappointed in the outcome if any of this were placed on the ballot. That's no 'appeal to the majority.' That's simply reality. A reality that I've not seen faced seriously here so far.

I've asked questions like this before in the thread and have been met with vague answers. To say that we'll simply "treat it like cigarettes and alcohol" simply doesn't answer these questions.

What's the plan?

;)
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Drug possession and use is a victimless crime. The consumption of potentially harmful substances via the long run is not illegal. Therefore the entire premise as to why it is even legal is in fact unsound and invalid. The marijuana tax act was not democratically invoked. Why do some believe populist regard is relevant in the legalizing?

Personally, i believe all drugs should be legalized, and allowed to be manufactured by firms to provide quality, purity, and lower prices. Of course there should be some guidelines set forth to achieve these goals, and the most efficient mechanism should be through simple excise.

In the Netherlands, i can walk into any bar and get served alcohol to the max without ever have been ID'd. On the contrary, if i walk into a "cafe", i will be carded every time, even if i leave real quick to get a beer next door, and then come back. So age requirements are another "issue", and should be examined to further provide the actual numbers.

As far as price, i can get hydroponic NYC Red Sour Diesel for about 15 Euro's per gram, or 60 Euro's per 6 grams (the legal limit allowed to be purchased at one time). In the US, that same strain, grown hydroponically fetches up to $2000/oz or about $70 bucks per gram. Of course you can find it a bit cheaper, but do not look to pay anything less than $30. Now i am not expecting you to believe me, so the next time you go to Amsterdam, or Holland in general, take a peek at a coffee shop and the prices.

My plan is to legalize drugs, regulate for some sort of transparent safety (to prevent harmful dilution), tax up the wazzu, and allow supply to really flood the market. Drug gangs will cease to exist, as they will be much less efficient than legitimate businesses who provide quality products at competitive prices.
 
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