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Obama Ponders Outreach to Elements of the Taliban

This was predicted by all opposing Obanana during his run for the crown. Now he has it and now all predictions are coming forth. This what we mweant by "no experience" you libbies. Even old lady Clinton would not have done this. You wanted him now you have him!!
 
This was predicted by all opposing Obanana during his run for the crown. Now he has it and now all predictions are coming forth. This what we mweant by "no experience" you libbies. Even old lady Clinton would not have done this. You wanted him now you have him!!

FYI: Obama signaled this change in early December.

PRES.-ELECT OBAMA: Right. Well, I, I think that we do have to be mindful of the history of Afghanistan. It is tough territory. And there's a fierce independence in Afghanistan, and if the perception is that we are there simply to impose ourselves in a long-term occupation, that's not going to work in Afghanistan. By the way, that's not going to work in Iraq either. There are very few countries that welcome long-term occupations by foreign powers. But Afghanistan has shown that they are fiercely resistant to that. We're going to have to convince the Afghan people that we're not interested in dictating what happens in Afghanistan. What we are interested in is making sure that Afghanistan cannot be used as a base for launching terrorist attacks. And as long as al-Qaeda and the Taliban, working in concert with al-Qaeda, threaten directly the United States and are engaged in mayhem, then we've got to take action. And, and that very limited goal of making sure that that doesn't happen, I think, can serve as the basis for effective cooperation with the Afghan people.
Dec. 7: President-elect Barack Obama - Meet the Press, online at MSNBC- msnbc.com
 
Yes we should talk to SOME of the Taliban. We think that all Taliban members are radical extremists, while certainly many are, there are other members who joined because they wanted money and to keep their heads. Those are the Taliban members we should talk to because we might actually get something done with them. But talking to the extreme parts of the Taliban is pointless and we will just waste time.
 
Are you kidding me? The Taliban are nuts! Extend a hand and they'll bite it off

Iran yes, Taliban no.

And now give them power. Broaden their base. Make it so Taliban is the base of Palestine.. Errr.. wait.. I mean.... Afghanistan. Then Israel... Err.. wait.. I mean America attacks the problem which just happens to be the whole country after you let them broaden.
 
Your post is kind of like being cocky after being beat up by a 6 year old. I mean...yeah he's a community organizer. Ha-ha. But he still beat the Republicans, Sarah Palin and John McCain like drums. 300+ electoral votes was it? ;)

So, are you comparing Obama to a 6 year old or just his executive experience? Honey, anyone coulkd have beaten the GOP last year thanks to the MSM & President Bush's popularity rating.

Topic? Yeah O man, talking to the Taliban, reaching out to Cuba, snubbing Great Britain. What a diplomatic whiz kid we've got in the White House. :roll:
 
Your post is kind of like being cocky after being beat up by a 6 year old. I mean...yeah he's a community organizer. Ha-ha. But he still beat the Republicans, Sarah Palin and John McCain like drums. 300+ electoral votes was it? ;)
Great, then he won't have any problems spanking ImOnAJihad or the Taliban, will he?
 
Yes we should talk to SOME of the Taliban. We think that all Taliban members are radical extremists, while certainly many are, there are other members who joined because they wanted money and to keep their heads. Those are the Taliban members we should talk to because we might actually get something done with them. But talking to the extreme parts of the Taliban is pointless and we will just waste time.


Doesn't work like that. Those that are just in it for the money or fear of death are few and far between. The Taliban give incentives to work for them by essentially giving their members status above non-members. There are no "groups" of moderate Taliban only "individuals".

We don't talk with those guys like we did with the Awakening movement. We bribe them to give up information on the main body so that we can drop JDAM's on their meetings. They're called "spies".
 
Who controls the streets of a city in America? So with America it is all about the empire of the city. And with others its the empire of religion.
 
OH!

SO now the Joke is going to use a policy which he declared an utter failure..I suppose all his supporters now support it too...
jackasses..and the 'jack' is too nice.

Typical garbage form this crowd.

Taliban /al-Qaeda and friends are using suicide bombers and boobytraps now on a much larger scale in Afghanistan..

Know why?
..because despite it failing to defeat the US military in Iraq..it kicked the **** out of the left in this nation and made them betray our soldier sin Iraq at every turn.


Just Surrender you jokes.

:surrender



(Before anyone here gets in a pissy fit. The above is not in response to any post made here it is simply commenting on the BS crap Obama and his crowd of defeatist trash will/are pulling.)

Anyway....you might notice they are already hinting at the Afghans are "not doing enough" ...
 
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This is COIN.

Most of these "Taliban" are just normal people motivated by the same things we are, money, food on the table, security... etc... Religion is not the priority of the standard Taliban Soldier. These are the people he hopes to bring back to fold of peace. And they are winnable and worthy of our time if we expect to beat this insurgency... Kinda like the Sons of Iraq.

coin military - Google Search

sons of Iraq - Google Search
 
Henry Crumpton is a man I respect tremendously for his covert field work in Afghanistan for the CIA. He was legendary for his efforts and then he was made an Ambassador, but he's since left the State Dept. Now I don't know what he is doing. I suspect something that can't be broadcast.

But here is his view of what we are doing there and what we should be doing.

“Dealmaking is a part of what can be a successful counterinsurgency campaign. ... But it needs to be the right kind of deals, the kind of deals that will deny Al Qaeda that opportunity to plot and plan.”

Read the entire interview here:

FRONTLINE: the war briefing: interviews: henry crumpton | PBS

You'll gain a new depth and dimension of understanding by reading this.
 
Feds say Canada's policy in line with that of U.S. on Taliban

Canada, one of the largest contributors to the efforts in Afghanistan, agrees with Obama on the diplomatic approach. This isn't a "left wing" issue whatsoever, but a reflection upon a failing campaign. NATO continues to press on in Afghanistan but the grim reality is that there is no substantial headway being made. Areas that become stable quickly destabilize again once forces are reallocated to other combat zones.

I personally don't think the diplomatic route is going to work unless we are dealing with Taliban moderates (assuming they exist). But the moderates must exist if there are those engaged in negotiations with Pakistan... diplomacy isn't exactly the sharpest skill of the radical right. In any case, the Western world would be approaching the Taliban with two severe disadvantages:

1) They were attacked following 9-11 without any attempt at diplomacy, so why should diplomacy work now that the war is several years old?

2) We are losing the war and we lose further face by approaching the victors.

That said, the Taliban themselves may be tired of fighting and who knows what the state of their internal resources is. Maybe a compromise of some kind could be reached? In any case, trying is probably better than nothing.
 
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Running around saying we are losing.
Which is a big motivation boost... btw-maybe next we can show pictures of dead US soldiers that is always a big morale booster...and so much more important then fighting to win a war.


Hopefully next week we can say our commanding Generals are liars..thats always a good one too.

Pathetic state the USA and the West is in today. Not interested in winning ..just looking tough.
 
Henry Crumpton is a man I respect tremendously for his covert field work in Afghanistan for the CIA. He was legendary for his efforts and then he was made an Ambassador, but he's since left the State Dept. Now I don't know what he is doing. I suspect something that can't be broadcast.

But here is his view of what we are doing there and what we should be doing.



Read the entire interview here:

FRONTLINE: the war briefing: interviews: henry crumpton | PBS

You'll gain a new depth and dimension of understanding by reading this.

More on COIN, Check out anything written by LTC Nagl, he wrote soup with a Knife. The military is pushing that book hard at all of the COIN training areas... There is another book, I got it somewhere they gave me in class, I can't remember the author right now, but it is a french guy (a country who has beaucoup experience in COIN) and the foreword is by Nagl... I think its called military Counter-Insurgency tactics, or something like that...
 
OH!

SO now the Joke is going to use a policy which he declared an utter failure..I suppose all his supporters now support it too...
jackasses..and the 'jack' is too nice.

Typical garbage form this crowd.

Taliban /al-Qaeda and friends are using suicide bombers and boobytraps now on a much larger scale in Afghanistan..

Know why?
..because despite it failing to defeat the US military in Iraq..it kicked the **** out of the left in this nation and made them betray our soldier sin Iraq at every turn.


Just Surrender you jokes.

:surrender



(Before anyone here gets in a pissy fit. The above is not in response to any post made here it is simply commenting on the BS crap Obama and his crowd of defeatist trash will/are pulling.)

Anyway....you might notice they are already hinting at the Afghans are "not doing enough" ...

Pissed off because you couldn't defeat the Taliban in 7 years? Stand back and let someone else do the job.
 
More on COIN, Check out anything written by LTC Nagl, he wrote soup with a Knife. The military is pushing that book hard at all of the COIN training areas... There is another book, I got it somewhere they gave me in class, I can't remember the author right now, but it is a french guy (a country who has beaucoup experience in COIN) and the foreword is by Nagl... I think its called military Counter-Insurgency tactics, or something like that...

I'm a fan of Nagl's. I once exchanged a post with him on another forum.

:)

EDIT: Are you thinking of Galula?

David Galula - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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Here is another foreword Nagl wrote:

The Evolution and Importance of Army/Marine Corps Field Manual 3-24, Counterinsurgency
by Lt. Colonel John A. Nagl

Although there were lonely voices arguing that the Army needed to focus on counterinsurgency in the wake of the Cold War—Dan Bolger, Eliot Cohen, and Steve Metz chief among them—the sad fact is that when an insurgency began in Iraq in the late summer of 2003, the Army was unprepared to fight it. The American Army of 2003 was organized, designed, trained, and equipped to defeat another conventional army; indeed, it had no peer in that arena. It was, however, unprepared for an enemy who understood that it could not hope to defeat the U.S. Army on a conventional battlefield, and who therefore chose to wage war against America from the shadows.

The story of how the Army found itself less than ready to fight an insurgency goes back to the Army’s unwillingness to internalize and build upon the lessons of Vietnam. Chief of Staff of the Army General Peter Schoomaker has written that in Vietnam, “The U.S. Army, predisposed to fight a conventional enemy that fought using conventional tactics, overpowered innovative ideas from within the Army and from outside it. As a result, the U.S. Army was not as effective at learning as it should have been, and its failures in Vietnam had grave implications for both the Army and the nation.” Former Vice Chief of Staff of the Army General Jack Keane concurs, recently noting that in Iraq, “We put an Army on the battlefield that I had been a part of for 37 years. It doesn’t have any doctrine, nor was it educated and trained, to deal with an insurgency . . . After the Vietnam War, we purged ourselves of everything that had to do with irregular warfare or insurgency, because it had to do with how we lost that war. In hindsight, that was a bad decision.”

[...]

Population security is the first requirement of success in counterinsurgency, but it is not sufficient. Economic development, good governance, and the provision of essential services, all occurring within a matrix of effective information operations, must all improve simultaneously and steadily over a long period of time if America’s determined insurgent enemies are to be defeated.

All elements of the United States government—and those of her allies in this Long War that has been well described as a “Global Counterinsurgency” campaign—must be integrated into the effort to build stable and secure societies that can secure their own borders and do not provide safe haven for terrorists. Recognizing this fact—a recognition spurred by the development of the Counterinsurgency Field Manual—the Department of State hosted an interagency counterinsurgency conference in Washington, D.C., in September 2006.

That conference in turn built a consensus behind the need for an interagency counterinsurgency manual. It promises to result in significant changes to the Department of State, the U.S. Agency for International Development, and the other agencies of the U.S. government that have such an important role to play in stabilizing troubled countries around the globe.

Of the many books that were influential in the writing of Field Manual 3-24, perhaps none was as important as David Galula’s Counterinsurgency Warfare: Theory and Practice. Galula, a French Army officer who drew many valuable lessons from his service in France’s unsuccessful campaign against Algerian insurgents, was a strong advocate of counterinsurgency doctrine. He wrote, “If the individual members of the organizations were of the same mind, if every organization worked according to a standard pattern, the problem would be solved. Is this not precisely what a coherent, well-understood, and accepted doctrine would tend to achieve?”

Precisely.

Continued at the link.

Foreword by John A. Nagl to The U.S. Army/Marine Corps Counterinsurgency Field Manual
 
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Pissed off because you couldn't defeat the Taliban in 7 years? Stand back and let someone else do the job.

The soviets also failed.
The British failed 5 different times in the 20th century.
Countless other invading forces have failed to take care of Afghanistan.

What makes you think a surge in troops will amount to ****?

I support the war in Afghanistan, but only if you do it the way other people have been successful. By hiring local tribes to fight along side you as a mercenary army and having as little effect on the local people as possible.

Obama is going in there with the same plan that Dick Cheney proposed, lets just hope General Petraeus convinces Obama to keep doing things his way. Going in there guns a blazing is what got those 20 civilians killed by a rocket not to long ago. People remember **** like that, and more of a presence will just push people toward the Taliban.
 
The soviets also failed.
The British failed 5 different times in the 20th century.
Countless other invading forces have failed to take care of Afghanistan.

What makes you think a surge in troops will amount to ****?

I support the war in Afghanistan, but only if you do it the way other people have been successful. By hiring local tribes to fight along side you as a mercenary army and having as little effect on the local people as possible.

Obama is going in there with the same plan that Dick Cheney proposed, lets just hope General Petraeus convinces Obama to keep doing things his way. Going in there guns a blazing is what got those 20 civilians killed by a rocket not to long ago. People remember **** like that, and more of a presence will just push people toward the Taliban.

The Taliban has several tribes and clans, some of whom we can make deals with.
 
The Taliban has several tribes and clans, some of whom we can make deals with.

Damn bkhad I never thought I would agree with you on these issues.:shock:
 
The Taliban has several tribes and clans, some of whom we can make deals with.

There are just as many tribes if not more that apposed the Taliban rule but were to small and to unwilling to come to terms to bring down the taliban.

We bring them together against the taliban and teach them skills, there will be no need to have a huge surge.
 
OutReach_logo_horiz.jpg
 
Pissed off because you couldn't defeat the Taliban in 7 years? Stand back and let someone else do the job.


Nope pissed off that after 7 years I once again have to witness jokes claiming we have lost and can't win.


Same asinine BS I heard form the same assholes who to this day continue to claim Iraq is a failure...but are now in positions in which they are sending people to Iraq.


Afghans do more then anyone in this portion of the war and yet its a given they will be blamed for the others POLITICIANS forcing them to run away.




As for the subject itself Obama can go f himself with his double talk and BS.
 
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I'm a fan of Nagl's. I once exchanged a post with him on another forum.

:)

EDIT: Are you thinking of Galula?

David Galula - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thats it. Funny, they gave us that book at the combat advisors course and most of us packed it away, then when I started to get on the plane to Kuwait for phase 2, I didn't have a book so I broke it out... Best thing I could have done. Served me well at school... you know, this counter insurgency if spun right by the media will be some easy to sell strategy. I just hope Obama listens to Nagl. I have heard that he is, so... we'll see.
 
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