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Vatican hosts Darwin conference

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jujuman13

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BBC NEWS | Europe | Vatican hosts Darwin conference

Quoted from article(Christian churches were long hostile to Darwin because his theory conflicted with the literal biblical account of creation.)

Be interesting to see how they word there way around Darwin's Theory.

Quote(Yet as recently as 2006 a leading Catholic Cardinal, Christoff Schoenborn, of Vienna, a former student and friend of Pope Benedict XVI caused controversy by saying that Darwin's theory of natural selection was incompatible with Christian belief.

A leading American scholar of biology, Prof Francisco Ayala, plans to tell the conference that the so-called theory of intelligent design, proposed by Creationists, is flawed.

"The design of organisms is not what would be expected from an intelligent engineer, but imperfect and worse," he said.

"Defects, dysfunctions, oddities, waste and cruelty pervade the living world".)

Some of the most dysfunctional organisms seem at the moment to be in charge of the Vatican.
 
jujuman13 said:
Link
BBC NEWS | Europe | Vatican hosts Darwin conference

Quoted from article(Christian churches were long hostile to Darwin because his theory conflicted with the literal biblical account of creation.)

Be interesting to see how they word there way around Darwin's Theory.

Quote(Yet as recently as 2006 a leading Catholic Cardinal, Christoff Schoenborn, of Vienna, a former student and friend of Pope Benedict XVI caused controversy by saying that Darwin's theory of natural selection was incompatible with Christian belief.

A leading American scholar of biology, Prof Francisco Ayala, plans to tell the conference that the so-called theory of intelligent design, proposed by Creationists, is flawed.

"The design of organisms is not what would be expected from an intelligent engineer, but imperfect and worse," he said.

"Defects, dysfunctions, oddities, waste and cruelty pervade the living world".)

Some of the most dysfunctional organisms seem at the moment to be in charge of the Vatican.
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The Catholic Church's science department(what's it called?) and even the recently deceased John Paul II have all pretty much acknowledged that evolution is no longer a mere theory. This isn't as good as acknowledging evolution for the fact that it is BUT we are talking about the Vatican here. Not exactly the most progressive group on Earth. The former director of their observatory has even gone on record as saying that creationism is NOT a scientific theory. But as far as the Vatican goes :

Pope John Paul II :

Today, more than a half-century after the appearance of that encyclical, some new findings lead us toward the recognition of evolution as more than a hypothesis. In fact it is remarkable that this theory has had progressively greater influence on the spirit of researchers, following a series of discoveries in different scholarly disciplines. The convergence in the results of these independent studies -- which was neither planned nor sought -- constitutes in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory."[9]​

Fr. Coyne former Chief Astronomer for the Vatican :

ntelligent design isn't science even though it pretends to be. If you want to teach it in schools, intelligent design should be taught when religion or cultural history is taught, not science.​

I don't know the new pope's clear stance on evolution but if this :

We cannot say: creation or evolution, inasmuch as these two things respond to two different realities. The story of the dust of the earth and the breath of God, which we just heard, does not in fact explain how human persons come to be but rather what they are. It explains their inmost origin and casts light on the project that they are. And, vice versa, the theory of evolution seeks to understand and describe biological developments. But in so doing it cannot explain where the 'project' of human persons comes from, nor their inner origin, nor their particular nature. To that extent we are faced here with two complementary -- rather than mutually exclusive -- realities.​

Is anything to go by then he is keeping in line with his predecessor. Not really acknowledging evolution as a fact but avoiding confrontation by giving the scientific community the benefit of doubt.
 
Their thoughts on masturbation:

masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.
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-Catechism of the Catholic Faith

nuff said.
 
Of course ignoring the fact that the Catholic Church has a long history of supporting and promoting science - but of course facts like that don't get in the way of some people's bigotry regarding the Church.
 
Darwinists don't think their belief can coexist with Creation, so they spend all of their waking moments trying to argue over it. They can deny God all they want, but they cannot argue about a beginning since their belief doesn't establish one.
 
American said:
Darwinists don't think their belief can coexist with Creation, so they spend all of their waking moments trying to argue over it. They can deny God all they want, but they cannot argue about a beginning since their belief doesn't establish one.
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Oh that's right, Conservatives believe the earth is 5,000 years old. Sorry to disillusion you, but it's the Creationists who can't find a way to justify God's hand in natural selection. That's why opposition to Darwin is a test of faith. Believers in evolution don't "deny God", they recognize that Darwin just found a way to explain his handiwork.
 
ludahai said:
Of course ignoring the fact that the Catholic Church has a long history of supporting and promoting science - but of course facts like that don't get in the way of some people's bigotry regarding the Church.
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The Catholic Church supports science that doesn't contradict what they believe. That is not supporting science. Supporting science is seeing the evidence, analyzing it and ignoring the religious dogma that it contradicts. The Catholic Church can not in ANY real sense of the word 'promote and support' 'science'. It can promote and support that which does not come into conflict with what it believes as a religious institution.
 
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American said:
Darwinists
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What the hell is a "Darwinist?"

I'm pretty much assuming you don't have a single clue that much of what Darwin wrote in Origin of Species is not part of the Theory of evolution.

don't think their belief can coexist with Creation, so they spend all of their waking moments trying to argue over it.
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Actually you are improperly classifying everyone who accepts evolution as Dawkins followers. Evolution does not discussion God or lack of God anywhere in the theory.

They can deny God all they want, but they cannot argue about a beginning since their belief doesn't establish one.
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Actually they can. They can discuss the inherent logic of believers, especially those who accept Intelligent Design through the God of the Gaps argument.

That's three strikes in your argument. You're out.
 
This is proof. The catholic church(and I mean their administration, rather than the whole church itself) is hogwash. This constant "Darwin was evil, Evolution is wrong, Darwinism is bad, Oh but hey, let's host a Darwin conference and kiss up to evolutionists and pretend we are actually doing something to learn the way these non-christian scientists want us to learn". That tactic is the only one that I can say is blatantly underhanded, AND STUPID. For the sake of the catholic church, they need to impeach their pope and do away with all these 'cardinal' peoples.
 
ludahai said:
Of course ignoring the fact that the Catholic Church has a long history of supporting and promoting science - but of course facts like that don't get in the way of some people's bigotry regarding the Church.
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As long as it doesn't get in the way of Church dogma - ie, what's the catholic church's position on stem cell research again? What did the Church say of Galileo? Why did Copernicus wait until his death bed to publish solar centricity?
 
I don't know why modern evolutionary theory is still referred to as Darwinism. Many of Darwin's theories have been critiqued and refined over time, and many evolutionary biologists flat out disagree with him these days.

As for the Catholic Church supporting science... it only supports science that in turn supports its own perceptions of the universe. Lest I mention what they did to Galileo after he proved the geocentric belief system to be wholy incorrect.
 
Orius said:
I don't know why modern evolutionary theory is still referred to as Darwinism. Many of Darwin's theories have been critiqued and refined over time, and many evolutionary biologists flat out disagree with him these days.

As for the Catholic Church supporting science... it only supports science that in turn supports its own perceptions of the universe. Lest I mention what they did to Galileo after he proved the geocentric belief system to be wholy incorrect.
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Come on. Haven't you heard? The Catholic :spin: on that these days is that they didn't want it taught as fact because they considered it and unproven theory. Don't mention that the Catholic Church or those who supported it's position on the matter NEVER offered a science based counter argument or even tried to disprove the findings of Galileo. They offered theological counter arguments and this was all they needed to call their attack on science a 'victory'. Also do not mention that Galileo was tried for heresy.

Heresy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Heresy is an introduced change to some system of belief, especially a religion, that conflicts with the previously established canon of that belief.
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Orius said:
I don't know why modern evolutionary theory is still referred to as Darwinism. Many of Darwin's theories have been critiqued and refined over time, and many evolutionary biologists flat out disagree with him these days
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Agreed. Darwin is little more then history and how the early theory came about. Today's Modern Synthesis has very little of his findings. But it has always been easier for the opponents of Evolution to typecast Evolution and those who accept it rather then discuss what Evolution actually is. American tried to cast evolution as atheistic. I have a formal debate on another forum I can show him where that asinine argument was soundly annihilated.
 
Hatuey said:
This isn't as good as acknowledging evolution for the fact that it is BUT we are talking about the Vatican here. Not exactly the most progressive group on Earth.
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Coming from you I think they can take that as compliment. :2razz:
 
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Orius said:
As for the Catholic Church supporting science... it only supports science that in turn supports its own perceptions of the universe. Lest I mention what they did to Galileo after he proved the geocentric belief system to be wholy incorrect.
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Come on, is there any need for such cliches? You do know that Galileo was mainly tried because of a misunderstanding that made it look like he was ridiculing the Pope? Or at least that is what turned the general censure of him into a situation where he found himself on trial. The Pope was not only the head of the church but a temporal ruler and no King would have let such slide.

But anyway The church did something wrong 400 years ago.....holy ****.:roll:

How long until someone mentions the Inquisition. Come on taking bets.

Does this mean I bring up the Bolsheviks and Jacobins whenever we are discussing modern liberalism because they display most of the important characteristics of it?

As Robert Nisbet said From Burke to Kirk from Condorcet to ADA. :cool:
 
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Wessexman said:
Coming from you I think they can take that as compliment. :2razz:
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Not sure what you mean. I don't rely on 1800 year old books to tell me what I should consider fact.
 
WillRockwell said:
Oh that's right, Conservatives believe the earth is 5,000 years old. Sorry to disillusion you, but it's the Creationists who can't find a way to justify God's hand in natural selection. That's why opposition to Darwin is a test of faith. Believers in evolution don't "deny God", they recognize that Darwin just found a way to explain his handiwork.
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Conservatives? Where are you going with this? :confused:
 
Ludahai posted(Of course ignoring the fact that the Catholic Church has a long history of supporting and promoting science - but of course facts like that don't get in the way of some people's bigotry regarding the Church.)

But only where that science does NOT digress from HRCC doctrinaire.

If it happens to digress from that, then the perpetraters are dammed!, at least in the eyes of those who currently rule Vatican.

Interestingly those in the past who were murdered for their beliefs by the HRCC but have subsequently had their 'souls' resurrected, pity they lost their lives for their beliefs.

One believes in GOD by prayer too GOD, one does not pray to picture or statue that is supposed to represent GOD.
Thou shalt not bow down to graven images.
Unless of course you are a follower of HRCC.
 
Wessexman said:
Come on, is there any need for such cliches? You do know that Galileo was mainly tried because of a misunderstanding that made it look like he was ridiculing the Pope? Or at least that is what turned the general censure of him into a situation where he found himself on trial. The Pope was not only the head of the church but a temporal ruler and no King would have let such slide.

But anyway The church did something wrong 400 years ago.....holy ****.:roll:

How long until someone mentions the Inquisition. Come on taking bets.

Does this mean I bring up the Bolsheviks and Jacobins whenever we are discussing modern liberalism because they display most of the important characteristics of it?

As Robert Nisbet said From Burke to Kirk from Condorcet to ADA. :cool:
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What "misunderstanding"? Galileo did that on purpose. His explanation of solar mechanics was couched as a discussion. He named the person arguing the church's position, the geocentric position, "Simplicito"....which also means "idiot".

No misunderstanding. Besides. He was wrong and recanted. Everyone knows Galileo recanted because he was wrong, and not because the church let him try on those thumbscrews to see how they looked as a fashion accessory.
 
talloulou said:
Their thoughts on masturbation:



-Catechism of the Catholic Faith

nuff said.
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You missed the last part of the sentence.

masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action, unless it is ordained by a priest, and done to him by altar boys.
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:mrgreen:
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
What "misunderstanding"? Galileo did that on purpose. His explanation of solar mechanics was couched as a discussion. He named the person arguing the church's position, the geocentric position, "Simplicito"....which also means "idiot".
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Actually it is generally thought he didn't mean to offend the Pope. However it did look like he was attacking the Pope directly. No King at the time would have stood for that.

No misunderstanding. Besides. He was wrong and recanted. Everyone knows Galileo recanted because he was wrong, and not because the church let him try on those thumbscrews to see how they looked as a fashion accessory.
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Do you have proof of this or are you just talking cliched ****? The Inquisition was quite advanced for courts at the time.
 
jujuman13 said:
Ludahai posted(Of course ignoring the fact that the Catholic Church has a long history of supporting and promoting science - but of course facts like that don't get in the way of some people's bigotry regarding the Church.)

But only where that science does NOT digress from HRCC doctrinaire.

If it happens to digress from that, then the perpetraters are dammed!, at least in the eyes of those who currently rule Vatican.

Interestingly those in the past who were murdered for their beliefs by the HRCC but have subsequently had their 'souls' resurrected, pity they lost their lives for their beliefs.

One believes in GOD by prayer too GOD, one does not pray to picture or statue that is supposed to represent GOD.
Thou shalt not bow down to graven images.
Unless of course you are a follower of HRCC.
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Man you Christians really piss me off sometimes. You spend so long attacking each other that you make the job a hell of a lot easier for your actual enemies, the bloody secularists and athiests.

You seem to have ingested an unhealthy dose of cliche. The Jacobins rivalled the death toll of the Inquisition in a few years.
 
Wessexman said:
Umm you really don't understand Catholicism do you?

Anyway, I'm sure you rely on very up to date books to tell you everything.:lol:
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As long as it doesn't have any talk of 2000 year old dead people coming back eventually and people being made from ribs. I'm good.
 
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