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Being fat 'is as bad as smoking'

Ikari said:
There's nothing saying we can't do both! Round up all the fatties, throw them into fat camps. And then sell seats so the rest of us can mock and ridicule them as they are forced to perform labor for our amusement.
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I'm down for Obese American Gladiators.
 
Cilogy said:
Are you telling me that people are born with the tendency to smoke?

Good joke.

The need for/addiction to nicotine might be hereditary (maybe I'm just guessing, but) smoking?
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You're blind.

Why do you think nicotine causes an addiction? Not because nicotine causes an addiction to any and every living organism it is because genetics make it an addictive substance to humans.
 
ludahai said:
Exactly. To the extant it is "hereditary" it is because children learn from what their parents do. If their parents smoke and/or are overweight, as children learn from the examples of their parents, they are more likely to have the same problems. Just as my children like to run and exercise more than their classmates - because they see their daddy run and participate in races in a regular basis. They don't just want to walk through the fun runs, they race through them. Children learn from the ACTIONS more than the TALK of their parents. This typically carries through to adulthood.
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Our son is active because he sees me run and participate in races, thus he wants to be fast like his daddy. Both of our kids think that fast food is junk because they hardly ever get it (maybe two or three times a year at most), and we tell them its junk. During the winter when they are shut in the house so much, I have them do exercises in the house (run the stairs, pushups, lunges, crunches, so on - pretty much a little drill camp for an 8 and 5 year old :)). It does them good.

Parents do their kids a huge disservice if they allow their kids to lead sedentary childhoods and eat a bunch of junk. If your obese as a child its very difficult to lose that weight as an adult. I will go so far as to say that its very poor parenting to let your kids become obese. Basically, your shortening their lifespan and hurting their future quality of life by doing so. Really, when you think about it, its every bit as bad as letting them flunk in school.
 
I think what's so revealing about this study is that it exposes some of the myths about the relative dangers of smoking vs. other high risk conditions such as obesity. I found this line important:
Being obese or smoking more than 10 a day doubled the premature death risk, the British Medical Journal reported.

Being overweight, seriously underweight or smoking 10 or less raised it by 30% - and interestingly the fat non-smoker ran the same risk as the fat smoker.
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I remember reading a great article last year about Second Hand Smoke studies, and how they often include obese or otherwise unhealthy persons in the statistical data, skewing the data to make SHS look like a real culprit in cancer or heart disease deaths, when the real cause may something altogether different.

I'm NOT suggesting that smoking is not extremely unhealthy. It's the SHS studies that I believe are highly misleading.
 
Ikari said:
let's round up all the fatties and throw them into fat camp!
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Better yet. Cut em up and we have a never ending food supply for Africa. I'm serious.
 
Arch Enemy said:
You're blind.

Why do you think nicotine causes an addiction? Not because nicotine causes an addiction to any and every living organism it is because genetics make it an addictive substance to humans.
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Not to mention cases where the mother smokes while the child is in utero thus creating an addicted baby with a much greater propensity towards future abuse.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Our son is active because he sees me run and participate in races, thus he wants to be fast like his daddy. Both of our kids think that fast food is junk because they hardly ever get it (maybe two or three times a year at most), and we tell them its junk. During the winter when they are shut in the house so much, I have them do exercises in the house (run the stairs, pushups, lunges, crunches, so on - pretty much a little drill camp for an 8 and 5 year old :)). It does them good.

Parents do their kids a huge disservice if they allow their kids to lead sedentary childhoods and eat a bunch of junk. If your obese as a child its very difficult to lose that weight as an adult. I will go so far as to say that its very poor parenting to let your kids become obese. Basically, your shortening their lifespan and hurting their future quality of life by doing so. Really, when you think about it, its every bit as bad as letting them flunk in school.
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I am in complete agreement. While we disagree on many other things, we seem to be in complete agreement on this one. :2wave:
 
Zyphlin said:
So a few years of getting it into peoples psyche's that being fat is as bad as smoking.

Then making sure they think that fat people are as disgusting as smokers and are as bad and should be shunned and punished for their "habit".

Then you can easily start raising taxes on fatty foods, or banning them from areas, or denying benefits, or all the other wonderful fun things to let government slide more and more into our lives to make sure that everyone is walking the ol' company line...
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I'm curious what you think about an obese person who takes up more than one seat on a plane. Should they be required to pay for 2 seats?
 
aps said:
I'm curious what you think about an obese person who takes up more than one seat on a plane. Should they be required to pay for 2 seats?
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I know you didn't ask me, but I will answer the question. They should either pay for two seats, or pay for a higher class of seat that they can sit in without oozing into the seats of their neighbors.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Our son is active because he sees me run and participate in races, thus he wants to be fast like his daddy. Both of our kids think that fast food is junk because they hardly ever get it (maybe two or three times a year at most), and we tell them its junk. During the winter when they are shut in the house so much, I have them do exercises in the house (run the stairs, pushups, lunges, crunches, so on - pretty much a little drill camp for an 8 and 5 year old :)). It does them good.

Parents do their kids a huge disservice if they allow their kids to lead sedentary childhoods and eat a bunch of junk. If your obese as a child its very difficult to lose that weight as an adult. I will go so far as to say that its very poor parenting to let your kids become obese. Basically, your shortening their lifespan and hurting their future quality of life by doing so. Really, when you think about it, its every bit as bad as letting them flunk in school.
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That and this:

The schools annoy the crap out of me with their nutrition preaching. Why? Because my kid never had a "processed" meal in his life until he had a school lunch. The garbage on those menus is nothing I would feed swine, let alone my kid. Cookies, cupcakes, chips and soda brought into school every time there's an excuse for a party.

The other little talked about problem that I'll get crucified for is that it's just not cool for women to cook any more. I know so many stay at home moms that have no idea what their kitchens are for other than unloading the greasy take out food. Too lazy to pack a lunch for your kids? Here are some scuzzy lunch-ables filled with sodium and transfat. No one drinks water, they drink juice boxes or now there's the flavored water with all the extra carbs and sugar. What's with that? And nothing annoys me more than the new microwavable tubs of mac and cheese. Lordy, people can't take a few minutes to boil a little pasta? Kids are coming home from school and snacking on that thinking it's health food. Ay yi yi yi! :doh
 
StandUpChuck said:
That and this:

The schools annoy the crap out of me with their nutrition preaching. Why? Because my kid never had a "processed" meal in his life until he had a school lunch. The garbage on those menus is nothing I would feed swine, let alone my kid. Cookies, cupcakes, chips and soda brought into school every time there's an excuse for a party.

The other little talked about problem that I'll get crucified for is that it's just not cool for women to cook any more. I know so many stay at home moms that have no idea what their kitchens are for other than unloading the greasy take out food. Too lazy to pack a lunch for your kids? Here are some scuzzy lunch-ables filled with sodium and transfat. No one drinks water, they drink juice boxes or now there's the flavored water with all the extra carbs and sugar. What's with that? And nothing annoys me more than the new microwavable tubs of mac and cheese. Lordy, people can't take a few minutes to boil a little pasta? Kids are coming home from school and snacking on that thinking it's health food. Ay yi yi yi! :doh
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Why do you specify women? Are men to stoooooopid to cook or is it just not their job in your world?

How about rounding up everyone with a BMI of 21 or over and throw them into prision and starve them into compliance. That'll fix 'em. ;)
 
TOJ said:
Why do you specify women? Are men to stoooooopid to cook or is it just not their job in your world?
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Well I kinda figured the "stay at home mom" part kinda dragged the female gender into it. I figure if that's your chosen job, there's no reason not to toss a roast chicken in the oven once in a while or make sure your kids have some nice, sliced oranges or apples after school. Look back before the 1970's when women actually took pride in running a household, there wasn't an epidemic of obese, unhealthy kids in the US.

Sorry if history offends you.
 
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Zyphlin said:
So a few years of getting it into peoples psyche's that being fat is as bad as smoking.

Then making sure they think that fat people are as disgusting as smokers and are as bad and should be shunned and punished for their "habit".

Then you can easily start raising taxes on fatty foods, or banning them from areas, or denying benefits, or all the other wonderful fun things to let government slide more and more into our lives to make sure that everyone is walking the ol' company line...
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So they should. The majority of people are apparently and obviously far too dumb and pathetic to properly manage their own lives.

Whats so bad about regulations anyways? Its what keeps us civilized. The laws of our society, those are regulations as well, just a different sorts.. Why are Americans so afraid of the government helping them, by helping them to manage their lives better? Is it not the business of the state if people in the state are fat blob monsters rather than fit and healthy individuals? Should the state then not intervene?
What is worst for the society?
-A country full of fat unhealthy people
-A 100% increase in murder rates


If our society keeps going like its going, then nobody in the west will be able to do any kind of work, they will by 1950 standards be disabled people. Do we want a society with a disability rate of 70%?

How about the mental effects of the fat society?
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
We don't evolve that quickly. In fact, our cravings are still largely based on being hunter gatherers (we crave sweets and salt for example because up until 10,000 years ago or so, as hunter gatherers they were in very short supply).

Now, what you can inherit more or less are bad habits. If you grow up in a home where they eat a bunch of junk and don't exercise, then thats what you know when your grown, but its not genetic, its learned.
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I saw an interesting documentary on BBC or some other British channel about skinny people, and how some individuals do not get fat no matter what they do. They linked this to being "weak" in the past, whereas others would gain fat very quickly to have a storage of energy during bad times, an ability most humans gained after centuries with famine and short supply. The skinny people, the ones that can eat all they want, but not get skinny, do not have this "trait". Now that we have more than enough food in our society, this "ability" to store fat has become very negative, obviously.
 
Cilogy said:
If its hereditary, I don't blame anyone.

However, I think being fat, when you can prevent it, is just as bad as smoking. In fact, being obese could run a higher chance of death than smoking, but of course that also depends on how much one smokes.

Yeah I said it, if you can prevent yourself from being fat, and you become fat, then that sucks for you. This is why I hate it when obese/fat people (who can prevent their condition) say things like "you can't make fun of me for being fat" or "you can't blame me for being fat, this and that, blah blah blah."

We can accuse people of wrongs when they smoke but not when they are overweight (preventable). That makes no sense. Why is it like this?
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Is that the point, whether it's hereditary. Fat is bad dude! If you're fat it's bad for you, do you think your fat care if it was genetic?
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
We don't evolve that quickly. In fact, our cravings are still largely based on being hunter gatherers (we crave sweets and salt for example because up until 10,000 years ago or so, as hunter gatherers they were in very short supply).

Now, what you can inherit more or less are bad habits. If you grow up in a home where they eat a bunch of junk and don't exercise, then thats what you know when your grown, but its not genetic, its learned.
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The primary evolutionary influence on obesety is that the food industry evolved into lower grade ,higher profit ingredients in what we have to chose from as food. Today some ungodly high percentage of our ready to eat canned ,bagged,processed foods have corn syrup in them. The hidden ingredients not listed on the labels are growth hormones which as well as fattening the critter they are injected into, carry over into the humans that eat the critters. The third most significant factor in the evolution of obesety is the gameboy, X-BOX generation that wasn`t taught how to ride a bike,or how to run around and laugh and play,etc. I was in the High school Ombudsmans office the other day, here in Nashville,(a city located in the third fattest state in the US), the kids were all fat...:(.
 
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ludahai said:
I am mostly Caucasian with some Canadian First Nations.
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Thats what I thought. Then damn, you are skinny if you are taller than an Asian.

It will be interesting to see with time if Asians are more immune to getting fat than Europeans/Americans. My belief is that they are more resistant to high fat levels, even though some disturbing reports have come out of China. That however doesn't mean that Chinese people are even close to the same % as Europeans and Americans.. Interesting no less. I think Asians have less of a tendency to get fat however. Time will tell, and the time will be when China is as developed as Europe and North America when it comes to food.
Interesting second note is Chinese food tend to be more healthy than western food. How about the difference between rice and pasta/potatoes for example. Hmmz.
 
Rodney said:
The primary evolutionary influence on obesety is that the food industry evolved into lower grade ,higher profit ingredients in what we have to chose from as food. Today some ungodly high percentage of our ready to eat canned ,bagged,processed foods have corn syrup in them. The hidden ingredients not listed on the labels are growth hormones which as well as fattening the critter they are injected into, carry over into the humans that eat the critters. The third most significant factor in the evolution of obesety is the gameboy, X-BOX generation that wasn`t taught how to ride a bike,or how to run around and laugh and play,etc. I was in the High school Ombudsmans office the other day, here in Nashville,(a city located in the third fattest state in the US), the kids were all fat...:(.
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Yeah.. Its a whole lifestyle issue..
This picture is a good symbol.

evolution.jpg


They did forget to make that last one a fatty.
 
StandUpChuck said:
Well I kinda figured the "stay at home mom" part kinda dragged the female gender into it. I figure if that's your chosen job, there's no reason not to toss a roast chicken in the oven once in a while or make sure your kids have some nice, sliced oranges or apples after school. Look back before the 1970's when women actually took pride in running a household, there wasn't an epidemic of obese, unhealthy kids in the US.

Sorry if history offends you.
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Still, why just women? Have you never heard of the stay-at-home dad? You wouldn't seem like such a bigot if you had said stay at home parent but that probably isn't even something your kind can imagine. :roll:
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
Thats what I thought. Then damn, you are skinny if you are taller than an Asian.
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Not much taller - I am only 5'9 1/2". I have a relatively slender build, especially by Western standards.

It will be interesting to see with time if Asians are more immune to getting fat than Europeans/Americans. My belief is that they are more resistant to high fat levels, even though some disturbing reports have come out of China. That however doesn't mean that Chinese people are even close to the same % as Europeans and Americans.. Interesting no less. I think Asians have less of a tendency to get fat however. Time will tell, and the time will be when China is as developed as Europe and North America when it comes to food.
Interesting second note is Chinese food tend to be more healthy than western food. How about the difference between rice and pasta/potatoes for example. Hmmz.
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I see some disturbing instances in my middle school classes. I have several students who top 70 kg (one first year middle school student is 90 kg!) It isn't as bad among the girls ... thus far. The problem is that the kids spend all their time in school and cram schools and have to grab relatively unhealthy snack stall foods between regular school and cram school. They don't get enough exercise and drink milk tea (which is NOT healthy by any means.) In general, regular meals here (even the lunch boxes that are ubiquitous here) are far more healthy than your average American meal. However, there are other factors here that is leading to increased numbers of overweight students and even now obese students and adults.
 
TOJ said:
Still, why just women? Have you never heard of the stay-at-home dad? You wouldn't seem like such a bigot if you had said stay at home parent but that probably isn't even something your kind can imagine. :roll:
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StandUpChuck, please don't bother to respond. You shouldn't care at all what TOJ says. Seriously.
 
aps said:
StandUpChuck, please don't bother to respond. You shouldn't care at all what TOJ says. Seriously.
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I was too busy laughing to respond. Thank you for the warning. :2wave:
 
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