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Cutting the President Slack Is So Old School

Democrats have always supported the winner of the presidential election, even when that election was stolen. But Republicans have decided to obstruct and bring down the president simply because he is not a Republican.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/22/weekinreview/22stolberg.html?ref=politics

What a pile of Liberal bile. But then facts have never been your forte'. The ONLY one who attempted to steal an election was the dumbest man in America, Al Gore, who attempted to disenfranchise the voters of Florida by divining votes through hanging chads.

The second pile of Liberal bile is the idiotic notion that Republicans can obstruct Obama’s agenda to destroy the American economy; Republicans can’t do anything to stop the steamroller that will roll over the American economy using fear mongering tactics to expand Leftist political policies.

:roll:
 
You're really just floundering in this thread. You don't address Hautey's graph showing half the country disapproving of Bush .

Hautey's graph demonstrates the erosion of public support for the Bush administration. This OP relates to the policy of the Republican party, decided during the first week of the Obama administration, to obstruct the governing party and actively work for its failure.
Name for me one Republican administration in history in which the Democratic party "hoped for its failure", and pledged from inauguration day to obstruct and bring down?
 
Unification. You mean support for the President? Did I get the wrong chart? Or does my chart say 'Percentage of Americans Unified'?

:rofl - With a 90% approval rating. I'm pretty sure it's safe to say the majority of liberals supported him. Or are you waiting for that magical 100% nobody ever got?

What the graph shows is that Liberals only suspended their campaign of ignorance against this President for a few short months post 9-11. To suggest that there was 90% approval for Bush pre-9-11 is as specious as most of your desperate attempts to rationalize Liberal ignorance are.

The deterioration if his approval were due to the campaign of ignorance waged against this President by the Liberal media giants led by none other than the New York Times which did a fantastic job of dis-informing a gullible American public.

Carry on; you're desperate flailing of the facts is truly a trait of Liberals everywhere. :2wave:
 
I bet there would be a better Obama approval rating if he nuked Chicago.:2wave:
 
Hautey's graph demonstrates the erosion of public support for the Bush administration. This OP relates to the policy of the Republican party, decided during the first week of the Obama administration, to obstruct the governing party and actively work for its failure.
Name for me one Republican administration in history in which the Democratic party "hoped for its failure", and pledged from inauguration day to obstruct and bring down?

Yes, it demonstrates that after 9/11.

It ALSO demonstrates that from the onset of being elected until 9/11, he had roughly 50% approval by Americans...roughly the same amount that elected him. There wasn't some bit "cutting of slack" on Bush when he first got in, it was still split down partisan lines in regards to peoples views of what Bush was doing and support for it.

And yes, I understand that the OP is focusing on the Republicans, but it is doing so by saying they're acting different than Democrats did. That is just not factually correct. You and your article quote the Tax Cuts as evidence of this, but the Tax Cuts had LESS democrats support than the Economic Stimulus had republican support!

Show me an official statement by the Republican party stating their goal is "from inauguration day to obstruct and bring down" this administration. Present me one single official source?

You won't find it, because its not there. What you can provide is anecdotal...and in some ways I'd agree, there ARE some people that are hoping for this administrations failure and hoping to obstruct it, be it because of partisan reasons in regards to elections or because they honestly believe that the things this administration wants are bad for this country.

HOWEVER

That anecdotal is NO DIFFERENT then the things done by Democrats within the first weeks and months of Bush's presidency. Bush was not having huge support in Congress for his things at the start of his Presidency. Even later with things like the Tax Cuts, he had no more support than Obama does now.

Your article is bunk, because its trying to rewrite history, and you're trying to do the same. Its sad pathetic piece of writing that shows the obvious partisan blinders or willful ignorance of history by the writer and people like you who are stating it as true.
 
I was waiting for a punch line.
B'da Bing!

Where'd it go?

Please tell me, what election was stolen by Republicans?
We know Kennedy beat Nixon in the Obama/Blago/Daley Beltway thanks to Democrat corruption, and Nixon let it slide for the good of the nation... but Republicans stealing an election?

Where?

Let me help you get over your Eight year old sore spot.
The NY Times serves as a good enough reference for you I hope.



USA Today good enough too?



Now, please tell all your friends who think Bush stole the election in 2000.
Bush and the republicans did steal the 2000 election.

First they scrubbed the voter registration rollcall-much the same way they tried to do it this past election when Tony Romo and Mickey Mouse appeared on a few registration sheets and ACORN was laughingly accused of rigging an election.

Second, they had republican operatives shut down the recount so that any deadline for a recount would not be met.

Third, they had the single worst SCT decision in history handing the election to Bush the lesser. I believe both Scalia and Thomas had family working on Team Bush. They should have recused themselves. I agree with Bugliosi on his summation of the Bush v Gore decision: But I (Bugliosi) personally will stake my prosecutorial reputation, if I have one, on the proposition that within the pages of The Betrayal of America I prove beyond all reasonable doubt that these justices were absolutely up to no good, and they deliberately set out to hand the election to George Bush.

As for the recount, Gore won under ANY statewide recount, i.e., a recount of all the votes of the state.

Review of all ballots statewide (never undertaken)
• Standard as set by each county canvassing board during their survey Gore by 171 • Fully punched chad and limited marks on optical ballots Gore by 115
• Any dimples or optical mark Gore by 107
• One corner of chad detached or optical mark Gore by 60
Florida election recount - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Now the adults have regained the majority, but the whining conservatives who brought us to this mess refuse to help clean it up.

There are no adults in charge. Thinking like this is exactly why we're in the trouble we're in. You're doing the same thing the Republicans were doing, adhering to blind partisanship. You think the Democrats really supported Bush? Everything was along party lines except for terrorist stuff in which both sides eagerly engaged in treason. Yeah, the Republicans are being obstructionists, so was the other side when they were in the minority. Both parties are run by children, both parties are equally bad, inept, and corrupt.

Obama is not proving himself any different than Bush, the only change was the D from an R.
 
Bush and the republicans did steal the 2000 election.

First they scrubbed the voter registration rollcall-much the same way they tried to do it this past election when Tony Romo and Mickey Mouse appeared on a few registration sheets and ACORN was laughingly accused of rigging an election.

Second, they had republican operatives shut down the recount so that any deadline for a recount would not be met.

Third, they had the single worst SCT decision in history handing the election to Bush the lesser. I believe both Scalia and Thomas had family working on Team Bush. They should have recused themselves. I agree with Bugliosi on his summation of the Bush v Gore decision: But I (Bugliosi) personally will stake my prosecutorial reputation, if I have one, on the proposition that within the pages of The Betrayal of America I prove beyond all reasonable doubt that these justices were absolutely up to no good, and they deliberately set out to hand the election to George Bush.

As for the recount, Gore won under ANY statewide recount, i.e., a recount of all the votes of the state.

Review of all ballots statewide (never undertaken)
• Standard as set by each county canvassing board during their survey Gore by 171 • Fully punched chad and limited marks on optical ballots Gore by 115
• Any dimples or optical mark Gore by 107
• One corner of chad detached or optical mark Gore by 60
Florida election recount - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I see you are desperately trying to keep spreading the same tired old Liberal lie again. I guess you willingly missed this story after the attempts of Al Gore and the Democrat party to steal an election and disenfranchise the voters of Florida by divining votes from hanging chads failed:

In the first full study of Florida's ballots since the election ended, The Miami Herald and USA Today reported George W. Bush would have widened his 537-vote victory to a 1,665-vote margin if the recount ordered by the Florida Supreme Court would have been allowed to continue, using standards that would have allowed even faintly dimpled "undervotes" -- ballots the voter has noticeably indented but had not punched all the way through -- to be counted.

Online NewsHour: Media Recount: Bush Won

Honestly, the tireless tirades by Liberals about stolen elections and war of choice are specious and already disproved by the facts a very long time ago; try to find a new way to support the socialist agenda of Obama which will destroy the economy for decades to come.
 
I see you are desperately trying to keep spreading the same tired old Liberal lie again. I guess you willingly missed this story after the attempts of Al Gore and the Democrat party to steal an election and disenfranchise the voters of Florida by divining votes from hanging chads failed:

In the first full study of Florida's ballots since the election ended, The Miami Herald and USA Today reported George W. Bush would have widened his 537-vote victory to a 1,665-vote margin if the recount ordered by the Florida Supreme Court would have been allowed to continue, using standards that would have allowed even faintly dimpled "undervotes" -- ballots the voter has noticeably indented but had not punched all the way through -- to be counted.

Online NewsHour: Media Recount: Bush Won

Honestly, the tireless tirades by Liberals about stolen elections and war of choice are specious and already disproved by the facts a very long time ago; try to find a new way to support the socialist agenda of Obama which will destroy the economy for decades to come.
Under any methodology involving a statewide recount of Florida votes, Gore wins.

Which part of that statement are you missing?
 
Under any methodology involving a statewide recount of Florida votes, Gore wins.
Even if that's true -- and it isn't -- the only totals that matter are the ones counted according to the law.

Bush won that one.
 
There wasn't some bit "cutting of slack" on Bush when he first got in...
That anecdotal is NO DIFFERENT then the things done by Democrats within the first weeks and months of Bush's presidency.

Well that's just not true. A quick search of articles from the first month of the Bush presidency proves that Democrats were making an effort to contribute to bipartisan governance. Sure, they were angry about the stolen election, but rather than call for the failure of the Bush administration they looked at their own mistakes and tried to find a way to contribute.


A critical question facing Democrats is when to compromise. Party leaders say they are wary about being seen as obstructionists, blocking a president who promised to end the gridlock in Washington. Senator Joseph I. Lieberman, the Connecticut Democrat who was Vice President Al Gore's running mate, said Democrats needed to reach out and work with Mr. Bush when they could.
DEMOCRATS FACING DIFFICULT CHOICES IN NEW CONGRESS - New York Times
Mr. Bush's Smooth Start
Many Washington Democrats acknowledge with grudging admiration that the word ''honeymoon'' does not really capture the atmosphere of the first two weeks of the Bush presidency. Despite the understandably bitter reaction to John Ashcroft and to President Bush's anti-abortion stance on foreign aid, Democrats in Washington admit to being impressed by the new president's charm offensive, nicknames and all, and by the tactical dexterity of the White House's presentation of its agenda of issues.
Mr. Bush's Smooth Start - New York Times
 
Under any methodology involving a statewide recount of Florida votes, Gore wins.

Which part of that statement are you missing?

Obviously the FACTS and these Liberal journals do not agree with your denial. Carry on; your clown like attempts to re-write the record is illustrative of partisan hackery gone wild.
 
Even if that's true -- and it isn't -- the only totals that matter are the ones counted according to the law.

Bush won that one.
Show me the exception to the statement Gore won under any statewide recount. I haven't found one.

On the second matter, you are correct. Thanks to the corrupt SCT decision, arbitrary deadlines matter more than accuracy in counting votes.
 
Bush and the republicans did steal the 2000 election.

First they scrubbed the voter registration rollcall-much the same way they tried to do it this past election when Tony Romo and Mickey Mouse appeared on a few registration sheets and ACORN was laughingly accused of rigging an election.

Second, they had republican operatives shut down the recount so that any deadline for a recount would not be met.

Third, they had the single worst SCT decision in history handing the election to Bush the lesser. I believe both Scalia and Thomas had family working on Team Bush. They should have recused themselves. I agree with Bugliosi on his summation of the Bush v Gore decision: But I (Bugliosi) personally will stake my prosecutorial reputation, if I have one, on the proposition that within the pages of The Betrayal of America I prove beyond all reasonable doubt that these justices were absolutely up to no good, and they deliberately set out to hand the election to George Bush.

As for the recount, Gore won under ANY statewide recount, i.e., a recount of all the votes of the state.

Review of all ballots statewide (never undertaken)
• Standard as set by each county canvassing board during their survey Gore by 171 • Fully punched chad and limited marks on optical ballots Gore by 115
• Any dimples or optical mark Gore by 107
• One corner of chad detached or optical mark Gore by 60
Florida election recount - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Adding to the following, several statisticians said a Gore win was statistically equivalent to impossible.

The NY Times serves as a good enough reference for you I hope.
Quote:
EXAMINING THE VOTE: THE OVERVIEW; Study of Disputed Florida Ballots Finds Justices Did Not Cast the Deciding Vote - New York Times

EXAMINING THE VOTE: THE OVERVIEW; Study of Disputed Florida Ballots Finds Justices Did Not Cast the Deciding Vote
A comprehensive review of the uncounted Florida ballots from last year's presidential election reveals that George W. Bush would have won even if the United States Supreme Court had allowed the statewide manual recount of the votes that the Florida Supreme Court had ordered to go forward.
USA Today good enough too?

Quote:
USATODAY.com - Newspapers' recount shows Bush prevailed


Newspapers' recount shows Bush prevailed

George W. Bush would have won a hand count of Florida's disputed ballots if the standard advocated by Al Gore had been used, the first full study of the ballots reveals. Bush would have won by 1,665 votes — more than triple his official 537-vote margin
Now, please tell all your friends who think Bush stole the election in 2000.
 
Show me the exception to the statement Gore won under any statewide recount.
That's been done, here, several times.

On the second matter, you are correct.
Then your point is moot.

Thanks to the corrupt SCT decision...
Excpalin to the class how the 7-2 decision regarding Equal Protection was 'corrupt'.
 
Obviously the FACTS and these Liberal journals do not agree with your denial. Carry on; your clown like attempts to re-write the record is illustrative of partisan hackery gone wild.
I really think you have no understanding of what a fact is.

When someone disagrees with your preconceived notions, even showing you countervailing-facts, you run away calling your questioner names telling him/her to 'carry on.'

You will never experience any growth if you keep that up. You'll stay at the bottom of the intellectual food chain if you don't change.
 
You will never experience any growth if you keep that up. You'll stay at the bottom of the intellectual food chain if you don't change.

What profound irony coming from someone who claims that Bush stole an election when the FACTS do not support your wild-eyed assertions.

The bottom of the intellectual food chain appears to be where you and many of your Liberal friends on this forum forage.

Carry on; your clown like attempts to suggest that any of your blather remotely resembles coherent honest debate are laughable at best, pathetic in that you can't even see the irony of your own hyperbole and overblown, desperate partisan rhetoric.
 
What profound irony coming from someone who claims that Bush stole an election when the FACTS do not support your wild-eyed assertions.

The bottom of the intellectual food chain appears to be where you and many of your Liberal friends on this forum forage.

Carry on; your clown like attempts to suggest that any of your blather remotely resembles coherent honest debate are laughable at best, pathetic in that you can't even see the irony of your own hyperbole and overblown, desperate partisan rhetoric.




Stop it TD!


Don't you know, only us Right wingers are Partisan...... How dare you! :rofl
 
Carry on; your clown like attempts to suggest that any of your blather remotely resembles coherent honest debate are laughable at best, pathetic in that you can't even see the irony of your own hyperbole and overblown, desperate partisan rhetoric.

You are a poor advocate for "coherent honest debate", as you can't even stay on topic, much less carry on a discussion in a civil tone. This is not a name-calling contest, and I still haven't heard a representative from the right offer a single example of a Republican administration which was dogged from inauguration day by a concentrated Democratic effort to cause it to fail.
 
I still haven't heard a representative from the right offer a single example of a Republican administration which was dogged from inauguration day by a concentrated Democratic effort to cause it to fail.
Yes, you have.
You've simply refused to accept the soundness of the claim.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Quit with all the personal attacks. On the other hand I do need some practice handing out infractions if anyone insists on keeping it up.
 
Well that's just not true. A quick search of articles from the first month of the Bush presidency proves that Democrats were making an effort to contribute to bipartisan governance. Sure, they were angry about the stolen election, but rather than call for the failure of the Bush administration they looked at their own mistakes and tried to find a way to contribute.

:roll:

Just quit with the tired stolen election crap. It contributes nothing and just deflects from the actual topic, which isn't surprising that you're doing it because your initial topic is bunk.

Again, you've yet to show me an official statement by the GOP stating they wish the failure of the Obama Administration.

As well, the situation is strikingly different. In 2001 Republicans did not have control of the entire congress, with Democrats having equal footing [and soon after majority] in the senate. This caused them to be forced, politically, to take a different approach which is shown in your articles that you cherry picked.

Additionally, there was no major legislation coming down the pike like this Stimulus Bill in 2000 that is so radically charged in regards to the views by each party on how to go forward with it.

Finally, as will be noted in the cherry picked articles again, Bush's administration right out the gate wasn't coming out going "We won the election" when the other side was giving input that they didn't want to listen to or telling their party who and who they should be listening too. He was not getting up making speeches roasting the previous administration in every paragraph. Bush was making strong pushes to actually be bipartisan and be respectful and open to both sides.


Lets see what else was in here, other than a quote from a guy that ended up essentially being thrown out of the party.

Now, since you still haven't provided an actual official documentation that the elected GOP's stance is to obstruct and cause the Obama Administration to fail I must imagine you're speaking of the constituency. If that's the case, what does your article say about the Democrat constituency during this time?

the party's core constituency, enraged by the presidential standoff in Florida, is demanding muscular opposition to Mr. Bush.

and in regards to the people in power?

That sentiment has already been signaled by the challenges to some of the incoming president's most ideologically charged cabinet selections, notably his choice of John Ashcroft for attorney general.

In regards to it being a completely different climate and thus politicly they could not be as vocal of obstructionists as they, or their constituents would like.

''Look, we don't control any part of the Congress and we don't control the executive branch,'' Mr. Gephardt said. ''Just by definition of things, we have to rethink everything we were out there on in the election, and think what our agenda should be now.''

And as to why they didn't want to be seen as obstructionists? Was it because they were trying to cut the president slack? No, it was political for fear of having this happen to them.

Newt Gingrich and his uncompromising Republican followers were punished at the polls when they were blamed by the public for the government shutdown of 1995 and for the partisan zeal of impeachment.

along with further political reason

Yet if Democrats fight hard and then splinter significantly when they vote, some strategists say they risk sending an early message of weakness to Mr. Bush. Democrats say they are well aware that their only negotiating leverage with the president is their ability to use filibusters in the Senate to stop legislation

And what else did Lieberman say?

''On the other hand, we have to be prepared to draw the line when there is no real agreement and not just reach an agreement for the sake of accommodation.''

Seems like the Republicans drawing a line on the stimulus due to the large amount of non-stimulus things added to it instead of reaching an agreement for the sake of accomodating the new president.

Not to mention, this sentiment was pretty much only in the Senate which is not surprising as it was the only place where politicly it was the smart move. In the house:

While Democratic House members on the left want the party to fight uncompromisingly against Mr. Bush

with statements from representitives such as this

Representative Jesse L. Jackson Jr., an Illinois Democrat, has been warning senators that they ignore the strong feelings of the party's base at their own peril"...He lambasted the Senate as ''the only group in town talking of bipartisanship.''

It was clear from your article that if you read it instead of cherry pick it that the Democratic Base wanted Bush's failure and to impeed him, the Democratic House Members wanted to fight uncompromisingly against him, and only the Senate for purely political and not noble reasons wanted to act bipartisan with him.


As to your second, as I said, Bush's tone was far different than Obama's and was percieved as such:

Mr. Bush's use of soothing words and symbolic acts has not been matched since Ronald Reagan's first days. In addition, the new president has surpassed both Mr. Reagan, his own father and Bill Clinton in making Congressional diplomacy an opening priority.

Not to mention this being a wonderful example of an early (albiet backhanded) insult to Bush right out of the gate, showing they're as petty as current republicans can be

Democrats who had envisioned him stumbling into town are now admiring him for staying ''on message,'' even if they dislike the message. Mr. Bush has also seemed smarter and verbally sharper than they expected.

Not to mention both point out that Bush did little of anything controversial in his first two weeks; far different than Obama and the Stimulus package. And the one thing that was controversial was Ashcroft. What was the vote by Democrats in the Senate?

8 yays, 42 Nays. 84%. More than the Stimulus got, but by under 10%. And still moer than 3/4th's against it.

Sorry, you're flat out wrong. Save for the Senate who was doing it pretty much through public channels more than through votes and for political reasons primarily if not only, the majority of Democrats in this country seemed to be roundly in favor of Bush's Administration to fail in regards to its policies. Gephart, as shown in your article, warned him against tax cuts. He was roundly told there'd be opposition to misile defense. He was warned against further stances on abortion. He was opposed on his changes to environmental laws and his appointment to Aschcroft.

No, much like today, Democrats then for the most part wanted the failure of the Bush Administration's policies just as many republicans wish that for Obama's now. The simple fact was politicaly at that time they had to go about such in the Senate in a different way then the current situation.
 
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Yes, you have.
You've simply refused to accept the soundness of the claim.

During the Bush years, I think the democrats were appalling as an opposition party. Bush got his ruinous tax cuts. He got retroactive immunity for FISA crimes. He got his War Powers Resolution authorization to attack Iraq. He got his Military Commissions Act immunity for past acts of torture. He got his medicare bill (granted the president's actuary withheld the bill's costs from congress to get it) but he got it.

What are some examples over the past 8 years of the democrats standing up to Bush and denying him any legislation he requested/supported?
 
Your kidding right?


Please show me where they supported Bush.


Your thesis is nonsense.


:roll::lol::lol:

Lets see, maybe in the last US crisis... does 9/11 ring any bells? Nah, I'm sure your selective memory doesn't allow you to see the truth in the OP's statement.
 
Lets see, maybe in the last US crisis... does 9/11 ring any bells? Nah, I'm sure your selective memory doesn't allow you to see the truth in the OP's statement.





Yeah that lasted about a week. Sorry. See hautey's little chart.
 
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