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Iran passes redline, has enough U235 for Bomb

Degreez said:
Actually, 13 Allied POWs died as a result from the blast.

Saving one American life is not a legitimate reason.
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Yes it is.

You don't have values, that's your problem.

Degreez said:
If the purpose of the atomic bomb was to convince Japan to surrender unconditionally, then no, he failed at doing his job. There was no unconditional surrender, nor did the deaths of thousands of people at Nagasaki serve any military objective.
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The purpose of the bombings was to end the war.

That purpose succeeded.

Case closed.

Degreez said:
I already proved earlier that an invasion of Japan was unnecessary to get Japan to surrender, according to the American and Allied commanders actively engaged in that region. An effective naval blockade and superior air support would have forced Japan to agree to terms of surrender without the need for an invasion of Japan.
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Yeah, that sure worked on those other pacific islands, didn't it?

Degreez said:
So many Americans have this misinformed education that the atomic bombings weren't immoral in nature and were quite possibly the greatest form of state terrorism ever witnessed.
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So many others have the really strange idea that nuking japan as the terminal events of WWII was wrong. The public schools really failed those kids miserably.


They even call it "terrorism", as if their phony moral equivalencies have any meaning after they've proven their inability to comprehend the basic exigencies of that war.

They're only concern is to demonstrate, forever and always, that the United States is never on the right side of any issue.

Look at this guy. He claims, after the immediate US experience with Tarawa, Iwo Jima, Okinanawa, the Phillipines, the Solomons, and the rest, after the grueling naval battles, their KAMIKAZE attacks!, and after the horrific treatments we discovered the Japanese were handing to their captive populations, that we wouldn't need to invade their home island...even though we'd been demanding their surrender and freely bombing their cities for months on end, that we wouldn't need to physically invade their home islands and shove our demands for their surrender up their little brown asses on a bayonet.

You tell it to the GI's in Europe who won the Battle of the Bulge, who stormed the beaches of Normandy marched the length of Italy and who, after the German surrender in May, 1945 weren't looking forward to going home, but who knew they were going to be re-mobilized to the invasion effort of the Japanese home islands.

Some flake generals were maybe discussing that they wouldn't have to invade.....planning for that invasion was commencing apace....and preparations for the defense of that invasion was in process also, on the enemy's side of the beach fronts.

A Little Boy and a Fat Man saved millions of American lives, and millions of Japanese lives, and that's all there is to that story. The Japanese did not surrender until after the bombs were dropped.

Those bombs were what gave the little boy emperor the gumption to finally stand up to his cabinet after allowing them to drag his nation into war in the first place so long ago.


Emperor Hirohito, Accepting the Potsdam Declaration, Radio Broadcast. To our good and loyal subjects: After pondering deeply the general trends of the world and the actual conditions obtaining in our empire today, we have decided to effect a settlement of the present situation by resorting to an extraordinary measure.

We have ordered our Government to communicate to the Governments of the United States, Great Britain, China and the Soviet Union that our empire accepts the provisions of their joint declaration.

To strive for the common prosperity and happiness of all nations as well as the security and well-being of our subjects is the solemn obligation which has been handed down by our imperial ancestors and which we lay close to the heart.

Indeed, we declared war on America and Britain out of our sincere desire to insure Japan's self-preservation and the stabilization of East Asia, it being far from our thought either to infringe upon the sovereignty of other nations or to embark upon territorial aggrandizement.

But now the war has lasted for nearly four years. Despite the best that has been done by everyone--the gallant fighting of our military and naval forces, the diligence and assiduity of out servants of the State and the devoted service of our 100,000,000 people--the war situation has developed not necessarily to Japan's advantage, while the general trends of the world have all turned against her interest.

Moreover, the enemy has begun to employ a new and most cruel bomb, the power of which to do damage is, indeed, incalculable, taking the toll of many innocent lives. Should we continue to fight, it would not only result in an ultimate collapse and obliteration of the Japanese nation, but also it would lead to the total extinction of human civilization.

Such being the case, how are we to save the millions of our subjects, nor to atone ourselves before the hallowed spirits of our imperial ancestors? This is the reason why we have ordered the acceptance of the provisions of the joint declaration of the powers.

We cannot but express the deepest sense of regret to our allied nations of East Asia, who have consistently cooperated with the Empire toward the emancipation of East Asia.

The thought of those officers and men as well as others who have fallen in the fields of battle, those who died at their posts of duty, or those who met death [otherwise] and all their bereaved families, pains our heart night and day.

The welfare of the wounded and the war sufferers and of those who lost their homes and livelihood is the object of our profound solicitude. The hardships and sufferings to which our nation is to be subjected hereafter will be certainly great.

We are keenly aware of the inmost feelings of all of you, our subjects. However, it is according to the dictates of time and fate that we have resolved to pave the way for a grand peace for all the generations to come by enduring the [unavoidable] and suffering what is unsufferable. Having been able to save *** and maintain the structure of the Imperial State, we are always with you, our good and loyal subjects, relying upon your sincerity and integrity.

Beware most strictly of any outbursts of emotion that may engender needless complications, of any fraternal contention and strife that may create confusion, lead you astray and cause you to lose the confidence of the world.

Let the entire nation continue as one family from generation to generation, ever firm in its faith of the imperishableness of its divine land, and mindful of its heavy burden of responsibilities, and the long road before it. Unite your total strength to be devoted to the construction for the future. Cultivate the ways of rectitude, nobility of spirit, and work with resolution so that you may enhance the innate glory of the Imperial State and keep pace with the progress of the world.
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It is funny how the world is. Iran is BADDDD for doing what it is doing, where as Brazil, who is doing exactly the same thing, who is an ally of Hugo Chavez, is almost not mentioned... wonder why.
 
scourge99 said:
They did. The Japanese refused to agree to the terms therefore the war continued. The terms were fair and equitable and they refused. We dropped the first bomb. They refused. We dropped the second and they finally acquiesced.
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What are you talking about? The TERMS were unconditional surrender, which if you it's not very clear for you, is surrendering WITHOUT conditions. You know when unconditional surrender comes up? Usually during some type of civil war. You'll be damned to find a modern international example of unconditional surrender.

Also, saying unconditional surrender is 'fair and equitable' is, once again, completely subjective. Terms to surrender, which is a negotiated surrendering, are 'fair and equitable'.

Another thing. You were wrong about them refusing to surrender after the bombings on Hiroshima. You think anyone is going to believe a handful of reports that an entire city was demolished in a matter of seconds? On top of that, Hiroshima was the only city in which they did not give a warning to the citizens prior to dropping the A-bomb. Every other city had warnings, except Hiroshima.

scourge99 said:
now you are being pathetically dismissive. Please try harder to actual make an actual refutation as fallacies are unbecoming.
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The fact that you try to impose your subjective viewpoints on others is more pathetic.
scourge99 said:
If we invaded and the Japanese still refused surrender the casualties were projected to be astronomical. Moreover, the dropping of the bombs did not guarantee that they would surrender either. We were fully prepared to begin a land invasion and produce further weapons if necessary.
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Like I said before, an invasion of Japan was NEVER required to get them to surrender. Just because plans were drawn up (Operation Downfall, Operation Majestic), does not mean it would happen. You want to know the only reason, historically, the invasion of Japan is always brought up here? Because 500,000 Purple Hearts were manufactured in anticipation of any invasion of Japan. The way this information spread throughout America at the time caused such a panic.
scourge99 said:
I'm not going to make your argument for you. See how a quoted my section below?

Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Nagasaki during World War II
Urakami Tenshudo (Catholic Church in Nagasaki) in January 1946, destroyed by the atomic bomb, the dome of the church having toppled off.

The city of Nagasaki had been one of the largest sea ports in southern Japan and was of great wartime importance because of its wide-ranging industrial activity, including the production of ordnance, ships, military equipment, and other war materials."
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Nagasaki was bombed 3 days after an UNWARNED Hiroshima was bombed. If the purpose of the atomic bombs were to show the Japanese the destruction the United States possessed, then it is only obvious that they should wait more than 3 days before ASSUMING that another atomic was needed.

Not only that, the purposeful destruction of non-combatants during war has ALWAYS been against the Laws & Customs of War (The Avalon Prject - Laws of War : Laws and Customs of War on Land (Hague IV); October 18, 1907).
 
PeteEU said:
It is funny how the world is. Iran is BADDDD for doing what it is doing, where as Brazil, who is doing exactly the same thing, who is an ally of Hugo Chavez, is almost not mentioned... wonder why.
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I thought Brazil gave it up as a bad deal, not worth the expense. They start up again?

Oh, and is Brazil run by a bunch of Islamist loonies with a history of paying people to send their explosive-laden kiddies to visit the nice pizza joint in Jerusalem?
 
Degreez said:
Nagasaki was bombed 3 days after an UNWARNED Hiroshima was bombed. If the purpose of the atomic bombs were to show the Japanese the destruction the United States possessed, then it is only obvious that they should wait more than 3 days before ASSUMING that another atomic was needed.
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Hiroshima was warned. Their country started a war with the US three and a half years earlier and that war was still in progress.

Nagasaki was warned. Hell, there were japs in Nagasaki who'd seen the little sun glowing over Hiroshima and lived to tell abou it...for a little while.

Since it's indisputable that those two attacks saved millions of lives, what's your problem?
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Hiroshima was warned. Their country started a war with the US three and a half years earlier and that war was still in progress.

Nagasaki was warned. Hell, there were japs in Nagasaki who'd seen the little sun glowing over Hiroshima and lived to tell abou it...for a little while.

Since it's indisputable that those two attacks saved millions of lives, what's your problem?
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Atomic Bomb Warning Leaflets
Hiroshima: Historians' Letter to the Smithsonian
Decision to Drop atomic bomb
The Myths of Hiroshima

Here is a summary the Interim Committee reported to Truman:
# Interim Committee Formulates Policy
April through June 1945
A committee of scientific, corporate, military and government leaders was formed by Secretary of War Stimson to formulate policy on "the whole field of atomic energy, in its political, military and scientific aspects." The committee's major function was to determine if the bomb should be used with or without warning. On June 1, 1945, the Interim Committee submitted its report to President Truman after agreeing unanimously:

* The bomb should be used against Japan as soon as possible.
* It should be used against a military target.
* It should be used without prior warning.
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Leaflets were dropped on other cities after Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed.

And 'millions of lives saved' is a gross overstatement.
 
PeteEU said:
It is funny how the world is. Iran is BADDDD for doing what it is doing, where as Brazil, who is doing exactly the same thing, who is an ally of Hugo Chavez, is almost not mentioned... wonder why.
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NEWSFLASH!!!!

Nobody likes Hugo Chavez either. He is an Iran ally.
 
scourge99 said:
That doesn't mean we are exempt. No matter how much you want us to be.
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Actually, no. We are only bound by it if the non-signatory abides by its terms.

Although one of the Powers in conflict may not be a party to the present Convention, the Powers who are parties thereto shall remain bound by it in their mutual relations. They shall furthermore be bound by the Convention in relation to the said Power, if the latter accepts and applies the provisions thereof.
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Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War


Whether or not we SHOULD act a certain way is a different question. But we are not REQUIRED to by the Conventions.
 
Re: Iran holds enough uranium for bomb

Orius said:
ROFLROFLLOLZZZ Israel has thousands of nukes ready to be assembled in the basement. You think one Iranian nuke is going to challenge the Israeli deterrent?

Iran's one nuke will be shot down and then it will become a crater in the Earth before any of Iran's enemies are at risk.

LOLOLLMAO
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Thousands?
 
Goobieman said:
There are those here that will -never- comdemn Iran for building a bomb.

These people fall into two groups:
Those that believe the US is the cause of most problems in the world;
Those that look forward to the destruction of Israel.

There may be some overlap between the two.
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This is one thing I can't agree with you on.

There is another group of people who believe it's not our business what another sovereign nation wants to do with it's money / time. And it doesn't affect us until the decide to attack one of our allies or do something stupid.

Kinda like here in the US where I don't care what you do, as long as you don't inhibit / prevent my rights / affect me.
 
stevenb said:
This is one thing I can't agree with you on.

There is another group of people who believe it's not our business what another sovereign nation wants to do with it's money / time. And it doesn't affect us until the decide to attack one of our allies or do something stupid.

Kinda like here in the US where I don't care what you do, as long as you don't inhibit / prevent my rights / affect me.
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In my opinion, it can work a little differently bro.

Imagine there is no law to speak of.

Your neighbor Fred has been talking big, making threats about how he's going to wipe out you and your entire family.

Another neighbor comes by and warns you that Fred says he's making a bomb to blow up your house and everyone in it, and one dark night soon he's going to use it. Another neighbor tells you that he saw Fred buying dynamite. You saw Fred on his porch yesterday fiddling with some kind of home-made electronic gadget that might have been a timer.

Do you wait until your house and family goes BOOM?

Iran has been refining Uranium in a manner that could be used to fuel one or more bombs. Iran has been testing missles. Achmadinijhad has been telling everyone who will listen that Iran will destroy Israel soon.

See my point?

G.
 
Goshin said:
In my opinion, it can work a little differently bro.

Imagine there is no law to speak of.

Your neighbor Fred has been talking big, making threats about how he's going to wipe out you and your entire family.

Another neighbor comes by and warns you that Fred says he's making a bomb to blow up your house and everyone in it, and one dark night soon he's going to use it. Another neighbor tells you that he saw Fred buying dynamite. You saw Fred on his porch yesterday fiddling with some kind of home-made electronic gadget that might have been a timer.

Do you wait until your house and family goes BOOM?

Iran has been refining Uranium in a manner that could be used to fuel one or more bombs. Iran has been testing missles. Achmadinijhad has been telling everyone who will listen that Iran will destroy Israel soon.

See my point?

G.
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So your solution is to muster as much weapons and friends as possible and obliterate Fred's house? :lol:

You'd probably try to talk and reason with friend, find out more about what he's doing and if he would have any reason to make a bomb like... to scare thieves away. If that doesn't work, then call the police. If their being assholes THEN you call your buddies and get your 12-gauge and pipe bombs.
 
Tubub said:
So your solution is to muster as much weapons and friends as possible and obliterate Fred's house? :lol:

You'd probably try to talk and reason with friend, find out more about what he's doing and if he would have any reason to make a bomb like... to scare thieves away. If that doesn't work, then call the police. If their being assholes THEN you call your buddies and get your 12-gauge and pipe bombs.
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Well, Fred's not being reasonable, and the police don't exist.....so in the personal realm the proper next step would be the negotiating team of Smith & Wesson.
 
Tubub said:
So your solution is to muster as much weapons and friends as possible and obliterate Fred's house? :lol:

You'd probably try to talk and reason with friend, find out more about what he's doing and if he would have any reason to make a bomb like... to scare thieves away. If that doesn't work, then call the police. If their being assholes THEN you call your buddies and get your 12-gauge and pipe bombs.
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What I would likely do, would likely be sneaky, underhanded, unexpected, carefully planned, precisely executed, and leave no evidence. :cool:

Remember, we're assuming there is no law to speak of.

In International terms, between hostile nations, there might as well be no international law except that which an individual country or coalition of allies can impose by force. Most of the "international community" is long on talk and very very short on action.

They'll write you a great epitaph after your neighbor wipes you out though. They'll go on at length about how great you and the missus and kids were, and what a shame it is you're gone...but they won't do anything to Fred except lay a token "embargo" on him, and they won't admit half the reason you're gone is that they refused to take action and inhibited you from doing so.

G.
 
Goshin said:
What I would likely do, would likely be sneaky, underhanded, unexpected, carefully planned, precisely executed, and leave no evidence. :cool:

Remember, we're assuming there is no law to speak of.

In International terms, between hostile nations, there might as well be no international law except that which an individual country or coalition of allies can impose by force. Most of the "international community" is long on talk and very very short on action.

They'll write you a great epitaph after your neighbor wipes you out though. They'll go on at length about how great you and the missus and kids were, and what a shame it is you're gone...but they won't do anything to Fred except lay a token "embargo" on him, and they won't admit half the reason you're gone is that they refused to take action and inhibited you from doing so.

G.
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They might go to war before your annilihated... then send all their troops the Maginot Line and chill. Good times
 
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