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Chavez now can reelect himself for life

Chavez is a despot and from what I understand (from only cursory interest in articles on BBC) fairly incompetent in running his country's oil economy (why is every oil exporting nation run by assholes?) but compared to say...Pinochet he's not so bad.

And we all know how much the right loved Pinochet. Of course they also loved Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden...at one point.

This is not a defense of Chavez, it is however some context for those who argue for intervention into Venezuela based on moral appeal alone.

No intervention necessary.

I just want a person who enjoys the risks and fruits of liberty to end his pathetic existence.
 
Re: Chavez now can reelect himself for life. Maybe War With Colombia???

It is almost as entertaining as the American Left's adoration of Chavez with his socialist revolution agenda. What has it gotten the people of Venezuela? High unemployment and 30% inflation with NO hope for the future because his regime has run off about every legitimate company who would consider doing business in a country that can decide the next day to take over their assets and nationalize their efforts.

Venezuela is heading for a sewer because of the failed ideas and policies of a mentally challenged Socialist who wants to become dictator and uses the ignorance of the poor to propel himself to that position.

Unemployment rate:
9.1% (2007 est.)
Population below poverty line:
37.9% (end 2005 est.)
Inflation rate (consumer prices):
20.7% (Year ending November 2007)

Economy - overview:
Venezuela remains highly dependent on oil revenues, which account for roughly 90% of export earnings, more than 50% of the federal budget revenues, and around 30% of GDP. …..record government spending helped to boost GDP in 2006 by about 9% and in 2007 by about 8%. This spending, combined with recent minimum wage hikes and improved access to domestic credit, has created a consumption boom but has come at the cost of higher inflation-roughly 20 percent in 2007. Imports also have jumped significantly. Embolden by his December 2006 reelection, President Hugo CHAVEZ in 2007 nationalized firms in the petroleum, communications, and electricity sectors, which reduced foreign influence in the economy. CHAVEZ still has significant control of the economy and has indicated he intends to continue to consolidate and centralize authority over the economy by implementing "21st Century Socialism."

Venezuela Economy 2008, CIA World Factbook

I don't think the "left" adores Chavez, that's just rightwing propaganda. I think people who believe in democracy think we should keep our noses out of how other democracies work.
 
The matter is that (as the U.S.A have bipartidism between Liberal (democratics) and Conservative (republican) parties) you don't know what is a true left and you still call your liberals leftist while they aren't. Left is used in the rest of the world to refer communism and socialism. So the Democratic Party isn't really left, but center-right, while the republican party is far-right.

There is a trend in Latin America, all presidents are left-wing. Except Alvaro Uribe and Felipe Calderón. The president of El Salvador was also rightist but leftists won the last elections.

The only probably future right-wing president is in Chile, that country will have elections this or next year and the right-wing candidate is winning the elections.

There are some moderate socialist presidents: Panamá (Martin Torrijos), Brazil (Lula da Silva), Guatemala (Alvaro Colon), Chile (Michele Bachelet), Peru (Alan García) and Uruguay. There is a more radical left, called Bolivarianism, because they claim to support Simon Bolivar's ideals (However, Simon Bolivar was conservative): Nicaragua, Bolivia, Argentina, Ecuador, Venezuela and Cuba form this axis.

Colombia is he biggest ally of the USA in south america, but your new government does not support our country because of the problem mentioned above. Communist colombian leaders go to the USA to speak with the Democratic Party, saying that they are the left. What the Democratic leaders don't know is that those colombians that they talk to are communists and not like them.

The U.S.A is aiding Colombia in war against drug-dealing, but they have not seen that the real problem is poverty. Poverty is behind terrorism, poverty is behind drugs:

Imagine you are a poor teenager in Colombia, maybe your mother is a drunk and your father ¿? dissappeared? Your mother is disemployed. You don't have study. A very rich guy (druglord) tells you that if you kill a policeman, he will give US$500.000. What would you do?

So, if the people continue to be poor, they will accept populist leaders like Chavez and Colombia will end being the center of Chavez's empire. Yesterday in the news, the reporters showed that there are some stupid people creating the Colombian Socialist Bolivarian Party in the city of Cucuta, near the border with Venezuela.

I made a comparison between Chavez and Hitler in the Latin American section of the forum, in a thread called Colombia is not Fascist.

The US have not seen that while they are worrying in problems of the Middle East, their neighborhood is becoming the true enemy.

Russia and Iran have strong links to Chavez and his bolivarian circle that is taking over Latin America. I think the USA is taking care 100% of something they don't need to take care 100% but maybe 70%. See how terrorists are friends:

Al-Qaeda is an ally of Ahmadinejad and ETA.
Ahmadinejad is an ally of Chavez.
Chavez is an ally of Russia.
Chavez and ETA are allies of FARC.

FARC are enemies of Colombia.

Colombia is an ally of the USA and the EU.
The USA are an ally of Israel.
The EU are enemies of Al-Qaeda and ETA.
Israel is enemy of Palestine.
Palestine is an ally of Ahmadinejad.

The USA are an ally of Georgia.
Georgia is enemy of Russia.
Russia is an ally of Chavez and his bolivarian friends.
Bolivia is one of those friends.
Bolivia is enemy of Chile and Perú.
Chile and Perú aren't bolivarian.
Cuba is enemy of Chile.
Cuba is an ally of Venezuela.
Cuba is an ally of Russia.
Cuba is an ally of ELN.
ELN are allies of Sendero Luminoso of Perú.
Sendero Luminoso are enemies of Peru.
Peru is friend of Colombia and the EU.
Sendero Luminoso and ELN are friends of FARC.
FARC is friend of ETA who is a friend of Al-Qaeda who is friend of other radical muslim groups.Those radical muslim groups are enemies of India.
India is becoming friends with China.
China is becoming friends with Taiwan.
Taiwan are friends of Japan.
China just said Colombia was a touristic destiny for all Chinese.
Taiwan and Japan are friends of Phillipines.
Phillipines are enemies of their guerrillas.
Those guerrillas are friends of FARC.


Do you understand what can happen there?
 
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The matter is that (as the U.S.A have bipartidism between Liberal (democratics) and Conservative (republican) parties) you don't know what is a true left and you still call your liberals leftist while they aren't. Left is used in the rest of the world to refer communism and socialism. So the Democratic Party isn't really left, but center-right, while the republican party is far-right.

There is a trend in Latin America, all presidents are left-wing. Except Alvaro Uribe and Felipe Calderón. The president of El Salvador was also rightist but leftists won the last elections.

The only probably future right-wing president is in Chile, that country will have elections this or next year and the right-wing candidate is winning the elections.

There are some moderate socialist presidents: Panamá (Martin Torrijos), Brazil (Lula da Silva), Guatemala (Alvaro Colon), Chile (Michele Bachelet), Peru (Alan García) and Uruguay. There is a more radical left, called Bolivarianism, because they claim to support Simon Bolivar's ideals (However, Simon Bolivar was conservative): Nicaragua, Bolivia, Argentina, Ecuador, Venezuela and Cuba form this axis.

Colombia is he biggest ally of the USA in south america, but your new government does not support our country because of the problem mentioned above. Communist colombian leaders go to the USA to speak with the Democratic Party, saying that they are the left. What the Democratic leaders don't know is that those colombians that they talk to are communists and not like them.

The U.S.A is aiding Colombia in war against drug-dealing, but they have not seen that the real problem is poverty. Poverty is behind terrorism, poverty is behind drugs:

Imagine you are a poor teenager in Colombia, maybe your mother is a drunk and your father ¿? dissappeared? Your mother is disemployed. You don't have study. A very rich guy (druglord) tells you that if you kill a policeman, he will give US$500.000. What would you do?

So, if the people continue to be poor, they will accept populist leaders like Chavez and Colombia will end being the center of Chavez's empire. Yesterday in the news, the reporters showed that there are some stupid people creating the Colombian Socialist Bolivarian Party in the city of Cucuta, near the border with Venezuela.

I made a comparison between Chavez and Hitler in the Latin American section of the forum, in a thread called Colombia is not Fascist.

The US have not seen that while they are worrying in problems of the Middle East, their neighborhood is becoming the true enemy.

Russia and Iran have strong links to Chavez and his bolivarian circle that is taking over Latin America. I think the USA is taking care 100% of something they don't need to take care 100% but maybe 70%. See how terrorists are friends:

Al-Qaeda is an ally of Ahmadinejad and ETA.
Ahmadinejad is an ally of Chavez.
Chavez is an ally of Russia.
Chavez and ETA are allies of FARC.

FARC are enemies of Colombia.

Colombia is an ally of the USA and the EU.
The USA are an ally of Israel.
The EU are enemies of Al-Qaeda and ETA.
Israel is enemy of Palestine.
Palestine is an ally of Ahmadinejad.

The USA are an ally of Georgia.
Georgia is enemy of Russia.
Russia is an ally of Chavez and his bolivarian friends.

Do you understand what can happen there?

I certainly understand.

That is why even though I hate to have to say it, someone should end Chavez.

Da Silva of Brazil is a really cool guy from what I've heard.
 
He is a socialist, but very different than Chavez.

I personally believe there are two kinds of socialism:

1. Socialism that wants a super-powerful state that controls everything.

2. Socialism that just wants social order in their countries like providing education and health but not buying private enterprises and being dictators.

Something I want to share... FARC claim that they are marxists and all the things, but if you see, they are the ones who most spread radical capitalism in Colombia. They sell and buy drugs in a private way, their crimes are private and the areas they use for drug cultivating are also private. So, are they really socialist?
 
He is a socialist, but very different than Chavez.

I personally believe there are two kinds of socialism:

1. Socialism that wants a super-powerful state that controls everything.

2. Socialism that just wants social order in their countries like providing education and health but not buying private enterprises and being dictators.

Something I want to share... FARC claim that they are marxists and all the things, but if you see, they are the ones who most spread radical capitalism in Colombia. They sell and buy drugs in a private way, their crimes are private and the areas they use for drug cultivating are also private. So, are they really socialist?

Good assessment.

Are the FARC letters still carved in the rock side in Columbia?
 
Re: Chavez now can reelect himself for life. Maybe War With Colombia???

War with Colombia seems only a stone-throw away, and so is his "Socialist-Revolution" for Venezuela.

Gah, I hate Chavez.

Why should you hate this man ?
What exactly has he done to you ? ..
I'll say this : He has done nothing to me.
I do not care if he is socialist or communist.
IMO, the wealthy do not like him....
 
Re: Chavez now can reelect himself for life. Maybe War With Colombia???

Why should you hate this man ?
What exactly has he done to you ? ..
I'll say this : He has done nothing to me.
I do not care if he is socialist or communist.
IMO, the wealthy do not like him....

so you only hate people who do something to you personally?
 
Are the FARC letters still carved in the rock side in Columbia?

Sorry , I didn't understand the question.
 
Re: Chavez now can reelect himself for life. Maybe War With Colombia???

so you only hate people who do something to you personally?

And what Chavez has made to be hated by you?

Venezuela is a country which voted in favor of having him as their president, isn't this what democracy is about?

Didn't you vote for Bush TWICE even knowing that his first term was a disaster? Did the Venezuelans hate Bush in order to wish his assassination like some dudes do in this thread with Chavez?

As far as I know, Chavez is not an enemy of US and that is enough for me to read the news and wait and see. Maybe president Bush is unhappy because Chavez used to call him "el diablo" (the devil).:coffeepap
 
Re: Chavez now can reelect himself for life. Maybe War With Colombia???

And what Chavez has made to be hated by you?

Venezuela is a country which voted in favor of having him as their president, isn't this what democracy is about?

Didn't you vote for Bush TWICE even knowing that his first term was a disaster? Did the Venezuelans hate Bush in order to wish his assassination like some dudes do in this thread with Chavez?

As far as I know, Chavez is not an enemy of US and that is enough for me to read the news and wait and see. Maybe president Bush is unhappy because Chavez used to call him "el diablo" (the devil).:coffeepap

What is so great about democracy?

I do want dangerous people to be brought down.
A free people can not continue to survive in anyway as long as big government dip ****s rule the roost.

History has warned us repeatedly, it has shown us repeatedly.

Being blind to these things does no one any favors.
 
Re: Chavez now can reelect himself for life. Maybe War With Colombia???

And what Chavez has made to be hated by you?

Venezuela is a country which voted in favor of having him as their president, isn't this what democracy is about?

Didn't you vote for Bush TWICE even knowing that his first term was a disaster? Did the Venezuelans hate Bush in order to wish his assassination like some dudes do in this thread with Chavez?

As far as I know, Chavez is not an enemy of US and that is enough for me to read the news and wait and see. Maybe president Bush is unhappy because Chavez used to call him "el diablo" (the devil).:coffeepap

I can guarantee you that most of the people who voted for bush twice would NOT vote for an amendment to abolish term limits, no matter how much they may love the guy.

btw bush isn't president anymore, have you noticed?
 
Re: Chavez now can reelect himself for life. Maybe War With Colombia???

I was hoping this wouldn't pass. Dolores Huerta must be beside herself with joy.

link?


Yeah, I was hoping the same.

Now we have to be prepared to deal with Hugo "El Dicatataro" Chavez.
 
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All liberals and socialists, any questions?
 
Harry, I never saw something like that. The most similar thing I have seen is graffiti. FARC makes a lot of graffiti.

How can you say that Chavez is not enemy of the USA? Have you seen what he said about Obama?
 
It depends. A neoliberal is a liberal. A socialist who believes in liberties is a liberal. A communist who wants a very strong state with moral values is a conservative. A neoconservative is also a conservative. But what I am talking about is capitalist conservativism and capitalist liberalism, those are the ideologies of the Republican and Democratic parties of the USA.

The USA's political spectrum is very moved to the right.

Colombian Conservative Party may be compared with moderate Republicans.
Party of the U may be compared with Democratics.
Colombian Liberal Party may be compared with radical half-socialist Democratics.
Alternative Democratic Pole is so leftist that it can't be compared with any big political party of the USA. However, as they share a word in the name with the Democratic Party, the dems believe in all crazy things that they say.
 
It depends. A neoliberal is a liberal. A socialist who believes in liberties is a liberal. A communist who wants a very strong state with moral values is a conservative. A neoconservative is also a conservative. But what I am talking about is capitalist conservativism and capitalist liberalism, those are the ideologies of the Republican and Democratic parties of the USA.

The USA's political spectrum is very moved to the right.

Colombian Conservative Party may be compared with moderate Republicans.
Party of the U may be compared with Democratics.
Colombian Liberal Party may be compared with radical half-socialist Democratics.
Alternative Democratic Pole is so leftist that it can't be compared with any big political party of the USA. However, as they share a word in the name with the Democratic Party, the dems believe in all crazy things that they say.

Do they have any Jefferson liberal party's?
 
What is a Jefferson liberal party? something like libertarian? No, no libertarian parties in Colombia. The most libertarians are the liberal and the alternative democratic pole, but they support only same-sex marriage and legalization of some drugs (How do you think colombia would turn with legalization?) not more libertarian things. And also it depends. Many liberals are so authoritarists that sometimes the Conservative and the Uribist parties look like libertarians.

The same happens with the Alternative Democratic Pole, it is a coalition of all leftist forces so it has anarchists, socialdemocratics, communists, social-christians and social liberals. The only thing that the ADP rejects in the left is Bolivarianism.
 
You're kidding, LEFT? xD

Who is he?
 
What is a Jefferson liberal party? something like libertarian? No, no libertarian parties in Colombia. The most libertarians are the liberal and the alternative democratic pole, but they support only same-sex marriage and legalization of some drugs (How do you think colombia would turn with legalization?) not more libertarian things. And also it depends. Many liberals are so authoritarists that sometimes the Conservative and the Uribist parties look like libertarians.

The same happens with the Alternative Democratic Pole, it is a coalition of all leftist forces so it has anarchists, socialdemocratics, communists, social-christians and social liberals. The only thing that the ADP rejects in the left is Bolivarianism.

What do you think about Argentina?
 
Re: Chavez now can reelect himself for life. Maybe War With Colombia???

Not at all. Its perfectly Libertarian to hope someone who is a tyrant to his own people to get killed by his own people.
I'm really not sure he is a "tyrant", that is an abuse of the word. He has just turned unsavoury. He started off with some interesting and good policies such as removing the basically fuedal aristocracy that previous gov'ts had given control of great swathes of already occupied countryside to.
 
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