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Report: Holocaust denier will review evidence

I wonder what those who defended this bigot will say now. Williamson proves EXACTLY what has been said over and over again. The Catholic Church's less then admirable position during WWII would not allow it to let this guy back in without having him recant on his position. Brothers in Christ be damned he wasn't born a Bishop. Now let's watch the apologists scream about 'cultural imperialism'.
Ah Church bashing. Liberal idiocy at its best.

The church was not perfect in WW2 but it did its best with the situation it was put in. As Stalin said "The Pope? Where are his divisions?" The Vatican had to walk a tight-rope.

This guy is wrong but I don't see why he should be excommunicated for this. Questioninable historical accuracy to my mind is not a mortal sin. But a lot of those European countries have stupid, authoritarian laws on this where you can be jailed. The EUroplot is even trying to export them to Britain.
 
This guy is wrong but I don't see why he should be excommunicated for this. Questioninable historical accuracy to my mind is not a mortal sin. But a lot of those European countries have stupid, authoritarian laws on this where you can be jailed. The EUroplot is even trying to export them to Britain.

Denying the obvious and the Church should accept it in its ranks of authority? Is it a heliocentric universe or a geocentric universe? I think we all know where the church stood on this for a while.
 
Denying the obvious and the Church should accept it in its ranks of authority? Is it a heliocentric universe or a geocentric universe? I think we all know where the church stood on this for a while.

It is isn't an either-universe I believe.

He is historically wrong but to my mind it isn't the sort of sin that requires excommunication.
 
How do you account for the fact that Jews had a higher survival rate in countries with large Catholic populations rather than those where the Catholic Church wasn't as influential?

Like Poland?

Auschwitz concentration camp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The camp commandant, Rudolf Höß, testified at the Nuremberg Trials that up to 3 million people had died at Auschwitz. The Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum has revised this figure to 1.1 million,[1][2] about 90 percent of whom were Jews from almost every country in Europe.[3] Most victims were killed in Auschwitz II's gas chambers using Zyklon B; other deaths were caused by systematic starvation, forced labor, lack of disease control, individual executions, and purported "medical experiments".

Treblinka II was a German extermination camp in occupied Poland during World War II. Around 850,000[1] people - more than 99.5 percent of them Jews, but also other victims (among them 2,000 Romani people) were killed there between July 1942 and October 1943; the camp was closed after a revolt during which a few Germans were killed and a small number of prisoners escaped. The nearby Treblinka I was a forced labour camp and administrative complex in support of the death camp.

Sobibor was a Nazi German extermination camp set up in the Lublin region of occupied Poland as part of Operation Reinhard; the official German name was SS-Sonderkommando Sobibor. Jews, including Jewish Soviet prisoners of war (POWs), and possibly Gypsies were transported to Sobibor by rail, and suffocated in gas chambers that were fed with the exhaust of a petrol engine. One source states that up to 200,000 people were killed at Sobibor.[1] Thomas Blatt claims that "In the Hagen court proceedings against former Sobibor Nazis, Professor Wolfgang Scheffler, who served as an expert, estimated the total figure of murdered Jews at a minimum of 250,000."[2]

Majdanek was a German Nazi concentration camp on the outskirts of Lublin, Poland. The camp operated from October 1, 1941 until July 22, 1944, when it was captured nearly intact by the advancing Soviet Red Army. Although conceived as a forced labor camp and not as an extermination camp, over 79,000 people died there (59,000 of them Polish Jews) during the 34 months of its operation.

And before you ask :

Demographics of Poland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Religions

Roman Catholic 89.8%, Eastern Orthodox 1.3%, Protestant and other 0.6%, unspecified 8.3% (2002 census)

see Religion in Poland and Catholic Church in Poland

Or are you going to pretend like the Roman Catholic Church is not influential in a country where 90% of the population is Roman Catholic? Does your revisionism know no end?

How to you account for the thousands directly shelted by the Vatican in Rome and its environs?

The thousands? Get a ****ing clue. 6.6 million Jews were killed while the Roman Catholic Church remained quiet. End of story. Oskar Schindler saved 1,200 jews. Does that mean that Germans are no longer responsible for the deaths of 6.6 million Jews? In the same manner the Catholic church doing the bare minimum and remaining SILENT while a genocide was going on is not redeemed because they hid a few Jews under table cloths.

How do you account for the hundreds of Papal missives to Church representatives throughout Europe ordering them to save as many JEws as possible?

There is a lot you can't account for once you actually look at the PRIMARY source evidence.

You've provided nothing but a wild goose hunt that I do not wish to engage on. Now either put up or shut up. All you've done so far is adhere to fallacies like argumentums ad authoritarium. Nothing more nothing less.

I love the fact that haters like yourself won't even look at the history.

Please explain to me why newspaper articles in multiple languages PRAISED the work of the Church and Pope in working on behalf of Jews.

All you have is historical revisionism. When one looks at the documents of the day, it is clear the Church was working tirelessly on behalf of as many Jews as it could.

I provided sources for my claims. You provided a wild goose hunt. Want to try again? When one looks at the facts today one sees that :

1) If the Church felt true in it's conviction that it did all it could. Then it wouldn't have to apologize as it did.

2) If the church was as helpful as it was then there wouldn't be so many ISRAELI written arguments and news report displaying Jewish anger at the Church's willful ignorance of the Holocaust.

Now cry all you want. I'm done with your revisionism. Go cry to jfuh or something.
 
:doh

Man liberals lack common sense completely.

If the church had done much more it would have risked drawing even more hostility from the Nazis. Plenty of priests and Catholics were slaughtered by the Nazis. The Pope has no divisions, he could do little to help them.

Seriously liberals seem to rely on cliched views of history. Some liberal will drag up the inquisition next.

In the same manner the Catholic church doing the bare minimum and remaining SILENT while a genocide was going on is not redeemed because they hid a few Jews under table cloths.
As far as I know the allies didn't even make much noise until late in the war.
 
:doh

Man liberals lack common sense completely.

If the church had done much more it would have risked drawing even more hostility from the Nazis. Plenty of priests and Catholics were slaughtered by the Nazis. The Pope has no divisions, he could do little to help them.

Seriously liberals seem to rely on cliched views of history. Some liberal will drag up the inquisition next.

More revisionism and rantings of an ad hominem laced delusional conservative ignored.

As far as I know the allies didn't even make much noise until late in the war.

Allies of World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

* Flag of Poland Poland: 1 September 1939
* Australia: (UK) 3 September 1939
* Flag of France France: 3 September 1939 (capitulated on 25 June, 1940), including:
o Flag of France French overseas territories
o Flag of Morocco French Morocco
o French Indochina
* New Zealand: 3 September 1939 (UK)
* United Kingdom: 3 September 1939, including:
o Flag of India Indian Empire
o Flag of the United Kingdom Crown Colonies
+ British Burma
+ British Malaya
* Newfoundland: 4 September 1939
* Nepal: 4 September 1939
* Flag of South Africa South Africa: 6 September 1939
* Canada: (UK) 10 September 1939
* Czechoslovakia (government-in-exile): 2 October 1939
After the invasion of Denmark and Norway
Further information: Operation Weserübung

* Norway: 9 April 1940 (attacked by Germany on 9 April 1940, signed Armed Forces Agreement with the UK on 28 May 1941)
* Denmark: 9 April 1940 (officially neutral under German occupation 9 April 1940 - 29 August 1943)

[edit] After the invasion of The Netherlands and Belgium

* Belgium: 10 May 1940, including:
o Belgian Congo
* Luxembourg: 10 May 1940
* Netherlands: 10 May 1940, including:
o Flag of the Netherlands Dutch East Indies
o Flag of the Netherlands other Dutch colonies
* Flag of France Free France: 18 June 1940
* Greece: 28 October 1940
* Flag of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia/ Yugoslavia: 6 April 1941 (signed partial Tripartite Pact on 25 March, attacked by Germany on 6 April after a coup)

....do you even know who the allies were?
 
More revisionism and rantings of an ad hominem laced delusional conservative ignored.
Your refusal to respond in any reasonable way to me or ludahai is noted.

Answer me this: How many divisions did the Pope have?


....do you even know who the allies were?
I obviously meant the important allies, Britain, USA and Russia, but I notice you didn't properly respond to the point.

Why don't you take your cliched views of history and religion bashing to where people take such rubbish seriously like any liberal blog.
 
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One more interesting piece on the gas chambers issue. The IHR (Institute for Historical Review...or as I like to refer to them, the Institute for Historical Lying) offered $50,000 to anyone who could prove that Jews were gassed in gas chambers. When a man named Mel Mermelstein offered proof, the IHR refused to pay him. Mr. Mermelstein then sued the IHR in court. After a trial, and reviewing information, the Judge issued this statement:



Mermelstein was awarded the $50,000 ($90,000, actually) and the IHR was forced to apologize.

Now, along with the debunking of the anti-science of the Leuchter Report, the Goebells diary, and the Mermelstein verdict, I think we've pretty much destroyed any possibility of conquer looking credible, not only from an evidenciary standpoint, but from the fact that he has provided no evidence...nor has any to provide. But, if more is needed, I can certainly do so.

BOOMSHAKALAKA!!!!!

 
Your refusal to respond in any reasonable way to me or ludahai is noted.

Answer me this: How many divisions did the Pope have?

How many divisions did the Pope need
? I'm sure being the religious leader of 700 million human beings must carry some sort of weight. But I guess his weight only carries when we're talking about all the irrelevant things he did to feed the revisionist minds of people like yourself and Ludahai.

I obviously meant the important allies, Britain, USA and Russia, but I notice you didn't properly respond to the point.

The important allies? Like the UK, France and Canada? All of who joined in 1939? Your revisionism shines. It's funny because for somebody who claims to know about history you don't even seem to know who the allies were. You 'obviously' meant nothing. It's clear that your notion of who the allies were is well that of somebody who doesn't know who the allies were and when they joined. :lol:

Why don't you take your cliched views of history and religion bashing to where people take such rubbish seriously like any liberal blog.

Why don't you take your revisionism to where it is needed? May I suggest stormfront? ;)
 
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"No fewer than three thousand Jews found refuge at Castel Gandolfo, the pope's summer residence." "... 477 ROman Jews were sheltered in the Vatican and its enclaves, "while another 4238 found refuge in the numerous monasteries and convents in Rome.

Rabbi Dalin (p. 83) from at least three different citings.

Dalin, for real?
An employee of a highly Conservative Catholic institution? And you are going to call that a source without an agenda, or a salary to nurse

Why would there not be any mention of these hideouts in any sources on Castel Gandolfo?

Castel Gandolfo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Castelgandolfo
Tourist Guide | Castel Gandolfo, Lazio (the Pope's summer residence)
Castel Gandolfo (Italy) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia
Castel Gandolfo: Definition from Answers.com

Seems like that would draw people in. Strangely enough, I could not find any information on the Catholic Encyclopedias on Castel Gandolfo.

If they don't affect you, then you shouldn't worry about them.
I am not a bad person
I don't hate Nazis
I am not directly affected by Nazism
I will still disagree with their ideologies, and the lies they spew.

So, any "secret organization" owes an apology?
Sure, especially the ones that parade around as if the Spanish Inquisition never happened.
Sure, especially the ones that use the veil of Religion to acquire middle-eastern lands.

You are talking about the "Nazi Death Camps"? What did you want the POpe to do, so out, put on the SUperman uniform and snatch each and every Jew out of the camps? All of this while he was surrounded by Nazi Germany armies? How pathetic. If you look at even some of the documents released in the TWELVE VOLUMES of WWII-era documents released by the Vatican, you would realize the Church, at the direction of the Pope, worked to save HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF JEWS from the SHoah.

No. I would like the Pope, you know that elected guy who is buddies with God, to act like a man of great faith even in the darkest of times. And by a man of great faith, I mean What Would Jesus Do. Would Jesus have, basically ignored, Nazism? Fascism?
I know you are going to give me some answer about the Pope not being Jesus, but when Millions (now billions) of people depend on you for guidance, don't act like you don't know that excrement hit the fans; you have an obligation to those who follow you!



If you believe the Pope was indifferent during this calamity, you are badly informed.

According to the answer about: "What did you want the POpe to do, so out, put on the SUperman uniform and snatch each and every Jew out of the camps?"
You recognize the indifferent and lack of action taken by the Pope.
Maybe you are blind to truth?
 
In science you never ever will use "statements of witness" against evidence, and science IS my witness.
This isn't just about the SCIENCE, it's about the TRUTH. Your dismissal of eye witness accounts of murder on a genocidal scale tell me plenty Denier. And you have no science on your side. Otherwise you would have posted it.

The insult is the misuse of the word "holocaust" because the dead bodies were burned to prevent plagues and not so to exterminate people.
Nobody here claimed these people were murdered by burning them. Who here has done that? I think I was very clear that the burning of the bodies was a method of disposal, but it became a symbol of plight of the European Jews. Gassed, shot, hanged...it doesn't matter, dead is dead. The facts show that the burning of the bodies was not just to stop the spread of disease, but because it becomes difficult to manage burying over 100,000 people at a single site. Burning was much more efficient in terms of labor and space consumption.

See? You want to use the statements of witness which favored the tales, , and such is not only irrelevant but also there were 1 million of Germans soldiers ready to testify that such gas chambers never existed, and they were not heard. So, the use of witness from your part is debunked again.
First and foremost, you are an absolute liar as there is no way you could accurately state there were 1 million soldiers ready to testify to anything. The witness statements of the VICTIMS always trump the statements of the SUSPECTS when evidence supports the victim. I support the statements that favored the truth...hint, not the Nazi's.

Hold your horse right there, you are talking about the killing of millions of Jews without showing any valid evidence. Sorry but your statement still void by the scientific point of view. And, the word "holocaust" it does imply sacrifice by fire, and such didn't happen with the jews.
There are literally libraries full of evidence to support my case. It's already established and accepted world wide. The onus is on you to disprove the truth. You have not done that. I have history and solid evidence backing me up. You came in here making denier claims with not a shred of valid evidence. And your misrepresentation of how the word "holocaust" was used is not lost on us. You are dishonest person. Holocaust was NEVER used to describe what happened to the Jews as a "sacrifice to god." It was used to describe the attempted destruction of the race.

Now that you have reshaped your understanding of the meaning of words, you must change the words "holocaust" by "the burning of dead bodies to avoid diseases and plagues, plus you must change the word "genocide" by the word "slavery" because such is mostly the intentions to keep people in concentration camps: to be used for work.
I've done no such thing. How many more calls for evidence are you going to avoid here Denier?


With "us"? How many are you?
I see you avoided discussing the Final Solution in favor of sniping. "Us" refers to all those who have taken your dishonest rantings apart and fed them to you with a spoon.


And how do you know all that when you are practically saying that no accurate records are available at all?
Because millions of Jews disappeared, never to be seen again, witnesses described the mass round ups, and surviving witnesses described the faking of death certificates as well as the immediate executions of new, unregistered prisoners. Oh and let's not forget the Death Books. Try again.

Are you talking about the few thousands who were arrested? Because millions of people acquired false passports and traveled to all the parts of the world escaping from the war. Such a migration of millions of people is not recorded but just visit far away lands and high mountains in other countries and yes...they still there with their names changed but they still there.
Provide proof Denier. Your argument, back it up. Otherwise it's as valid as it smells.

Your story is funny, Hitler didn't care about what people might think about him, the evidence is his invasions here and there, because in those years the Geneva Convention didn't exist at all and countries used to invade other countries and occupy their lands and kill any opponent...just look US in Hawaii or Israel in Palestine. It was the "law" of those times. Today you are criticizing Hitler with the new "international law", and sorry but such is not the right method.
I didn't do that at all. Reread my post and try again.


That is idiot's stories, Hitler needed the people of every country not so to kill them. His tactic was to destroy their defenses not so to kill populations. You must admire Attila the Hunt as your hero, but Hitler wasn't like that. I'm not saying that Hitler was a great thing as people, but he wasn't the sanguinary Dracula that you try to portrait about him. He was an ambitious man who acquired an extraordinary power as no other man has reached in human history, and I think that you are jealous of him because this reason.
Why, because conquer the Denier says so? Hitler ordered the destruction of the European Jews, period. He almost accomplished it. Hitler was in fact a genocidal sociopath and his actions are evidence of that. The rest of your post I could wipe my ass with and still fill like I'm getting short changed.


That is not the question, the real question is "to what country they migrated escaping from Hitler?
Well why don't you answer that question. Only your insane logic could possibly concoct an answer.

Check US, Canada and South America, Australia and even China and review birth certificates because many of them just changed names and became "Christians" to avoid further persecution, because in those years of the war they believed that Hitler was to dominate the entire world.
Yeah, I'll let you go ahead and post the evidence that this is even a remote possibility. And I have a feeling I'll find more Nazi war criminals relocated to South America than I would European Jews.


Yeap, to fantasy island, because such didn't happen in reality.
Hi, I'm Lerxst...and you would be Denier.



Disregard the witness testimony, here we are talking about facts as evidence, and you must show the facts otherwise your statements will become opinions only.
Where did you study law at son?


Mostly the ones who didn't want to submit themselves to their new authority.
Opinion much?

The number of deaths in the books do no count more than few thousands, what the heck are you talking about?
Combined with the mass graves, eye witness testimony, and millions of missing Jews...I think the Death Books fill out what I'm talking about.

Denier, eh? well this "denier" knows English and you don't.
No, you know how to butcher English and you know how to deny and lie.

You don't get it. The leaks should kill everybody inside the buildings, this means the gas killing also the Nazis who were inside in the other rooms. Do you have a brain? well, use it to think and not so to imagine stupid arguments.
Show me where German soldiers stood in the building that was full of leaks while Jews were murdered by gas. Show me the buildings, show me the leaks.


Then, your point is that the Jews died by hysteria and not so by gas, sheeesss! now you have started a new theory...
I think you have a tumor.


Hell with those false witness, facts rules and no facts have been given by you.

:rofl

Yes, if the facts do not support their words, all those people are no more than liars. What do you expect?
Anti-Semite much?

What I find disgusting is to see how a big lie like the killing of millions of people in concentration camps has been spread out without a single evidence supporting such thing. Today, thanks to science such a myth called the holocaust is finally proved as a hoax.:coffeepap
In Bizarro World, maybe. Here, not so much.
 
No. I would like the Pope, you know that elected guy who is buddies with God, to act like a man of great faith even in the darkest of times. And by a man of great faith, I mean What Would Jesus Do. Would Jesus have, basically ignored, Nazism? Fascism?
I know you are going to give me some answer about the Pope not being Jesus, but when Millions (now billions) of people depend on you for guidance, don't act like you don't know that excrement hit the fans; you have an obligation to those who follow you!

Hammer. Nail. ****ing. Head. Quoted For Truth.

Pope Pius XII was a ****ing coward who didn't take a SINGLE definitive or for that matter PUBLIC stance on the atrocities of the Nazis. I'm not saying he supported it. I'm just saying he didn't do **** about it.

Stalin once said : How many divisions does the pope have?

Well how many does the leader of the Catholic Church need? What was he missing? Christians? There weren't enough of them or something? What exactly did he need to tell the entire world that what the Nazis were doing was wrong? In the context of things his actions were at the very least those of a man who does not want to be seen as somebody who totally ignored the problem but at the same time he did nothing of true relevance and even when he did it was so insignificant that his Christian apologists must bring up over and over the same events to reassure themselves that their beloved leader did all he could.
 
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By the way, Hatuey and Arch...nice job on handling the other leg of this debate. Very well done you silly liberals.

:mrgreen:
 
Hammer. Nail. ****ing. Head. Quoted For Truth.

Pope Pius XII was a ****ing coward who didn't take a SINGLE definitive or for that matter PUBLIC stance on the atrocities of the Nazis. I'm not saying he supported it. I'm just saying he didn't do **** about it.

Stalin once said : How many divisions does the pope have?

Well how many does the leader of the Catholic Church need? What was he missing? Christians? There weren't enough of them or something? What exactly did he need to tell the entire world that what the Nazis were doing was wrong? In the context of things his actions were at the very least those of a man who does not want to be seen as somebody who totally ignored the problem but at the same time he did nothing of true relevance and even when he did it was so insignificant that his Christian apologists must bring up over and over the same events to reassure themselves that their beloved leader did all he could.

I think there is something to be said about a man who builds his entire standing in the free world around representing the characteristics of Christ and then when faced with something as horrible as the Holocaust takes an almost neutral stance on the issue. It's at that moment, as Arch has said, that the characteristics of Christ need to be displayed most prominently. Not "milktoast" or "Buddy Jesus."
 

How many divisions did the Pope need
? I'm sure being the religious leader of 700 million human beings must carry some sort of weight. But I guess his weight only carries when we're talking about all the irrelevant things he did to feed the revisionist minds of people like yourself and Ludahai.
What the hell are you talking about "revisionist"? You are babbling.

The Pope could easily have been crushed by the Nazis. I guess he put the continuation of the church and the Catholic community and its safety first and its not as if the full scale of the holocaust was completely known until late in the war. Perhaps he should have spoken out but this idioitic, PC position you seem to take, as if it sullies the name of the Catholic church completely is just stupid, many people and organisations did not speak out.
I do not doubt the church could have done better what I and others do doubt is the whole bull****, liberal, athiest agenda you pin to that.

I very much doubt you'd be likely to scream about the Nazis within their reach.

The important allies? Like the UK, France and Canada? All of who joined in 1939? Your revisionism shines. It's funny because for somebody who claims to know about history you don't even seem to know who the allies were. You 'obviously' meant nothing. It's clear that your notion of who the allies were is well that of somebody who doesn't know who the allies were and when they joined. :lol:
What are you babbling about? Are you suggesting the free french were talking about the holocaust long before the rest of the allies. Otherwise stop talking rubbish.


Why don't you take your revisionism to where it is needed? May I suggest stormfront? ;)
Ah an accusation or implication of racism from you. How novel. Your obsession with race, large even for a liberal, has not gone unnoticed here.
 
What the hell are you talking about "revisionist"? You are babbling.

The Pope could easily have been crushed by the Nazis. I guess he put the continuation of the church and the Catholic community and its safety first and its not as if the full scale of the holocaust was completely known until late in the war. Perhaps he should have spoken out but this idioitic, PC position you seem to take, as if it sullies the name of the Catholic church completely is just stupid, many people and organisations did not speak out.
I do not doubt the church could have done better what I and others do doubt is the whole bull****, liberal, athiest agenda you pin to that.

I could be a bit, you know, wrong in thinking that the Iron Cross worn by the Nazi's was a gesture that they were in favor of Catholicism and the teachings of the Pope; The Desert Fox, Rommel, did not even accept the Swastika as his symbol.

However, I don't think that's my main problem with it. Mine is that the Catholic Church is supposed to be a place of faith, spirituality, not an institution of "flesh and blood" (as is used in scripture).
I have seen the dirty dealings of churches first hand, and whenever they start to talk this bull**** of their physical-self, then I no longer believe in the power of Faith as their guide. I thought Heaven was greater than anything on Earth, but apparently by your ideals of why the Pope stayed out of it, it's not so.

I very much doubt you'd be likely to scream about the Nazis within their reach.

Honestly, I've never had the chance to fight against Nazis. But I doubt I would be among those in the French Underground, or organizations like that throughout the Nazi-occupied world. I sure as hell would not just sit there and keep my Papal dignity while fellow humans were slaughtered by the truck-load.
 
What the hell are you talking about "revisionist"? You are babbling.

The Pope could easily have been crushed by the Nazis
.

So this justifies his complete silence? I guess when one's life is in danger. It's okay to be a complete coward just so you can claim later that you did....well something.

I guess he put the continuation of the church and the Catholic community and its safety first and its not as if the full scale of the holocaust was completely known until late in the war. Perhaps he should have spoken out but this idioitic, PC position you seem to take, as if it sullies the name of the Catholic church completely is just stupid, many people and organisations did not speak out.
I do not doubt the church could have done better what I and others do doubt is the whole bull****, liberal, athiest agenda you pin to that.
I very much doubt you'd be likely to scream about the Nazis within their reach.

Lol 'Perhaps the pope' should have spoken out. PERHAPS? The greatest massacre of the 20th century is going on and the Pope should have 'perhaps' spoken out? Are you completely retarded? Or is there some sort of mental condition that goes on in that little hick town you live in where you think that being PC means standing up for what is right instead of hiding like a coward ie. Pope Pius XII?

I wouldn't stand up to the Nazis? You mean like the millions of people who weren't rich, politically powerful or surrounded by any of the works of art in Vatican but still spoke out and opposed the horrors of Nazi Germany? Pius XII was a coward who would have rather save his own skin then stand in the way of Nazi Germany in any relevant shape or form. Deal with it.

What are you babbling about? Are you suggesting the free french were talking about the holocaust long before the rest of the allies. Otherwise stop talking rubbish.

What? This isn't even English. The Final Solution of the Nazis took on full force after 1942 :

Mass killings of about one million Jews occurred before the plans of the Final Solution were fully implemented in 1942, but it was only with the decision to eradicate the entire Jewish population that the extermination camps were built and industrialized mass slaughter of Jews began in earnest. This decision to systematically kill the Jews of Europe was made by the time of, or at the Wannsee conference, which took place in Berlin, in the Wannsee Villa on January 20, 1942. During the conference, there was a discussion held by a group of German Nazi officials to decide on the "Final Solution of the Jewish Question". A surviving copy of the minutes of this meeting was found by the Allies in 1947, too late to serve as evidence during the first Nuremberg Trials.

So no. I would not be suggesting that the 'free French' whomever they were started talking about the Holocaust before the rest of the allies. But that's not even what you spoke of. Admit you didn't even know who the Allies were and that your retarded and misguided notion that they were made up of the Call of Duty guys you've played with.

Ah an accusation or implication of racism from you. How novel. Your obsession with race, large even for a liberal, has not gone unnoticed here.

Awww? Are you going to cry revisionist? Take it to somebody who cares like the revisionists at Stormfront.
 
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Moderator's Warning:
Hatuey and Wessexman, knock off the attacks and baiting and debate the topic sans nastiness.
 
I see nothing here but your falsehoods and lies. There is no science that backs you. You have posted no evidence, because there is none. You are a liar or you just believe in the anti-semetic fantasies that have been spoon fed to you by who knows whom. Go back to stormfront.

So, with such a silly reply of yours is how you claim that you win debates against me...

...

...

ha,ha, ha, ha...

Look son, the evidence is clear, there is no residual of gas found in the walls of those rooms enough to prove that gas was used to kill anyone anytime in the years of the WW2.

Plus, the windows and doors show until today big gaps in reference to their frames which would cause leaks and kill not only the dudes inside the rooms but to everyone inside the building, so, it is scientifically impossible that gas was used to kill people in those rooms because if gas was used, the gas would kill also the Germans and anything inside the entire building.

In order to accept these excellent scientific discoveries you need to erase the decades of brainwashing created by a perpetuated and systematic propaganda broadcasting around the world the lie that gas was used to kill millions of people.

The Pope must also stop following such a stupid traffic to nowhere and use science as the GPS device which will guide him to the truth, and the truth is that no gas was used in the Nazi's concentrations camps, and this truth will last until you demonstrate scientifically that gas existed and that was used.

Get over son, the fallacy is over, and the evidence obtained through the scientific method is demonstrating that all the testimonies made by assumed witness is false.

If you disagree with me, be honest with yourself and instead of calling me "denier", you must simply demonstrate that "gas didn't leak" through the gaps of the windows and doors of those rooms, something which should be greatly appreciated by everyone here reading these messages. Remember that Leutcher is an expert in this matter and that his expertize has demonstrated that the lack of insulation of those rooms is enough to discard the idea that those rooms were used as gas chambers.

Come on. I know that I am not the only one waiting to see your "science" instead of your calling names.:coffeepap
 
This isn't just about the SCIENCE, it's about the TRUTH. Your dismissal of eye witness accounts of murder on a genocidal scale tell me plenty Denier. And you have no science on your side. Otherwise you would have posted it.

Witness can lie, the best way to find how true are the testimonies is through factual evidence, and the scientific evidence says that no gas was used in those rooms.

Nobody here claimed these people were murdered by burning them. Who here has done that? I think I was very clear that the burning of the bodies was a method of disposal, but it became a symbol of plight of the European Jews. Gassed, shot, hanged...it doesn't matter, dead is dead. The facts show that the burning of the bodies was not just to stop the spread of disease, but because it becomes difficult to manage burying over 100,000 people at a single site. Burning was much more efficient in terms of labor and space consumption.

Naaahhh. The Germans were losing the war and they needed troops in the front, so with no much staff available and facing that the dead corps in concentration camps were a risk for others in detention and the German troops as well, the burning of the dead corps was a preventive measure to avoid plagues.

First and foremost, you are an absolute liar as there is no way you could accurately state there were 1 million soldiers ready to testify to anything. The witness statements of the VICTIMS always trump the statements of the SUSPECTS when evidence supports the victim. I support the statements that favored the truth...hint, not the Nazi's.

So, for you to word "Nazi" is synonymous of "liar". Your English is far worst than mine, you better "study" the dictionary...:lol:

There are literally libraries full of evidence to support my case. It's already established and accepted world wide. The onus is on you to disprove the truth. You have not done that. I have history and solid evidence backing me up. You came in here making denier claims with not a shred of valid evidence. And your misrepresentation of how the word "holocaust" was used is not lost on us. You are dishonest person. Holocaust was NEVER used to describe what happened to the Jews as a "sacrifice to god." It was used to describe the attempted destruction of the race.

All your support is no more than inventions made by a group of sleek people, and today science rules and all the support you say you have has been shown as lies.


I've done no such thing. How many more calls for evidence are you going to avoid here Denier?

I see you avoided discussing the Final Solution in favor of sniping. "Us" refers to all those who have taken your dishonest rantings apart and fed them to you with a spoon.

"Final Solution?" Nothing is final here until you demonstrate first the existence of residual of gas enough to be used to kill people and the explanation of how gas won't leak through the great gaps between windows and doors in reference to their frames in those rooms of the concentration camps.

Because millions of Jews disappeared, never to be seen again, witnesses described the mass round ups, and surviving witnesses described the faking of death certificates as well as the immediate executions of new, unregistered prisoners. Oh and let's not forget the Death Books. Try again.

Naaahhhh, the "Jews" escaped from Europe by millions, I have lots of relatives who escape from Holland, and the same happened from every country of Europe. They weren't killed, they just escaped and changed their identity, that's all.

Provide proof Denier. Your argument, back it up. Otherwise it's as valid as it smells.

You have not a single evidence that millions of people were killed in gas chambers, you "assume" such an event by mixing the claims of several liars who call themselves as "victims" alone, and with the impossibility to find lots of people. The reason of the impossibility to find the missing millions of people is that when they escaped to other counteries they changed their identity.

Now well, as an example, you escape to South America in 1941, you can easily pay to any authority to give you a fake ID, and the evidence is that even today you can do that in this part of the world. Now, you have the new identity and you change your style of life and you have "disappear" from the world. In those years in every third world country many people didn't even have a birth certificate, most of the IDs were given in base of Certificates of Baptism, because while the government didn't reach far away from the metropolis' small towns, the Church did reach them.

In those years was very easy to change identities, and it was hard to follow someone's past. Face it, the millions of deaths you are claiming never happened. Those millions of people just migrated and changed their identities.

Why, because conquer the Denier says so? Hitler ordered the destruction of the European Jews, period. He almost accomplished it. Hitler was in fact a genocidal sociopath and his actions are evidence of that. The rest of your post I could wipe my ass with and still fill like I'm getting short changed.

Naaahhhhh. Such are stories made by Jews actors in Hollywood movies. Get mature man, you have no records that such was Hitler's plans...or...wait, yes, the records you have come from a concentration camp woman who claimed that she found official records from the Germans and she presented them later in the courts...sure, right...nothing found in German's headquarters but the documents were given by a Jewish old woman...how cute...

Yeah, I'll let you go ahead and post the evidence that this is even a remote possibility. And I have a feeling I'll find more Nazi war criminals relocated to South America than I would European Jews.

As far as I know, lots of German Nazis used to be "relocated" in Virginia close to Washington DC, I think in Fall Church while the Jews who migrated used to move to far away small towns, because they were so afraid that Hitler will find them.

Hi, I'm Lerxst...and you would be Denier.

Read again the rules of these forums. If you can't control yourself you better relax, think about it, and write back later on when your emotions won't overcome your thoughts.

Combined with the mass graves, eye witness testimony, and millions of missing Jews...I think the Death Books fill out what I'm talking about.

You need to update your Death Book with a seal stamp over the pages saying "Leutcher Report"..."Leutcher Report"..Leutcher Report"...

No, you know how to butcher English and you know how to deny and lie.

I know how read English and how to apply the correct meaning of words, something that the "holocaust" supporters lack of.

Show me where German soldiers stood in the building that was full of leaks while Jews were murdered by gas. Show me the buildings, show me the leaks.

Very easy, look at the pictures in your web links showing the gas chambers, look their location in the buildings. Now, copy them and paste them here with arrows showing the insulation used to prevent the leaks.

I think you have a tumor.

Read again the rules of these forums because your attacks are becoming a malicious virus., as Lewinsky was to president Clinton...

...
...
..ha, ha, ha, ha...
 
So, with such a silly reply of yours is how you claim that you win debates against me...

Nah, since you offered no evidence or science that hasn't been debunked, that is how I win debates with the likes of you.

...

...

ha,ha, ha, ha...

Look son, the evidence is clear, there is no residual of gas found in the walls of those rooms enough to prove that gas was used to kill anyone anytime in the years of the WW2.

Plus, the windows and doors show until today big gaps in reference to their frames which would cause leaks and kill not only the dudes inside the rooms but to everyone inside the building, so, it is scientifically impossible that gas was used to kill people in those rooms because if gas was used, the gas would kill also the Germans and anything inside the entire building.

In order to accept these excellent scientific discoveries you need to erase the decades of brainwashing created by a perpetuated and systematic propaganda broadcasting around the world the lie that gas was used to kill millions of people.

The Pope must also stop following such a stupid traffic to nowhere and use science as the GPS device which will guide him to the truth, and the truth is that no gas was used in the Nazi's concentrations camps, and this truth will last until you demonstrate scientifically that gas existed and that was used.

Get over son, the fallacy is over, and the evidence obtained through the scientific method is demonstrating that all the testimonies made by assumed witness is false.

If you disagree with me, be honest with yourself and instead of calling me "denier", you must simply demonstrate that "gas didn't leak" through the gaps of the windows and doors of those rooms, something which should be greatly appreciated by everyone here reading these messages. Remember that Leutcher is an expert in this matter and that his expertize has demonstrated that the lack of insulation of those rooms is enough to discard the idea that those rooms were used as gas chambers.

Come on. I know that I am not the only one waiting to see your "science" instead of your calling names.:coffeepap

If all you are going on is Leutcher, then you've got nothing. Leutcher has been shown to be a fraud. He has no degree in science or engineering and has no qualifications to make the claims that he does. This has been exposed in a court of law. Further, at the Zundel trial, Leutcher showed what an idiot he is by not understanding exposure times or concentrations of the gas used. so nothing you say in reference to Leutcher is anything but lying, bigotted, holocaust denial.

In essence. Leutcher is a fraud, his science is not science in the least. Leutcher is not evidence in this debate. Either come up with something else, or cease posting these lies. If you cannot, I will move this thread to where your lying places it: the Conspiracy Theory Forum. That's the extent of the credibility that both you and Leutcher have.

So, since you cannot use Leutcher, what else have you got?
 
So this justifies his complete silence? I guess when one's life is in danger. It's okay to be a complete coward just so you can claim later that you did....well something.
Until I see prove you've risked your life in such a way I don't really take your boasting here seriously. You forget the Nazis could have won and the Pope would have risked not only the lives of many Catholics but the very future of the church as it we know it. Then there was of course the fact the Nazis were fighting the Russians and the Pope really didn't like the Russians.

In hindsight from my rather safe position I'd say the Pope should perhaps have said something but that is not an eternal stain on the church or something that means Catholicism is evil as you imply.


Lol 'Perhaps the pope' should have spoken out. PERHAPS? The greatest massacre of the 20th century is going on and the Pope should have 'perhaps' spoken out? Are you completely retarded? Or is there some sort of mental condition that goes on in that little hick town you live in where you think that being PC means standing up for what is right instead of hiding like a coward ie. Pope Pius XII?
Your babbling. The Pope would have risked much, I still think he should have spoken out but your PC attempt to defame the church eternally and score some massive cheap load of points against it will not work. We all see through it.

It wasn't the biggest slaughter of the 20th century either. Your Russian and Chinese mates did slightly worse.
I wouldn't stand up to the Nazis? You mean like the millions of people who weren't rich, politically powerful or surrounded by any of the works of art in Vatican but still spoke out and opposed the horrors of Nazi Germany? Pius XII was a coward who would have rather save his own skin then stand in the way of Nazi Germany in any relevant shape or form. Deal with it.
Millions? You don't know what you are talking about. This is just PC bollocks.



What? This isn't even English. The Final Solution of the Nazis took on full force after 1942 :
The general scale wasn't known for at least another year or at least wasn't believed even by the British and Americans.

So no. I would not be suggesting that the 'free French' whomever they were started talking about the Holocaust before the rest of the allies. But that's not even what you spoke of. Admit you didn't even know who the Allies were and that your retarded and misguided notion that they were made up of the Call of Duty guys you've played with.
I know exactly who they were, this strange attempt you are making is nonsense. I simply don't think Brazil matters much because I don't completely lack common sense......

So basically your argument has been shown to be crap. We can all agree the church could have done better but your liberal bull**** attempt to try and make the church out to be eternally evil has been shown to be bull****.
 
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I could be a bit, you know, wrong in thinking that the Iron Cross worn by the Nazi's was a gesture that they were in favor of Catholicism and the teachings of the Pope; The Desert Fox, Rommel, did not even accept the Swastika as his symbol.
The Iron cross is an ancient symbol that was long used by the Prussians and later the German empire.
 
The Iron cross is an ancient symbol that was long used by the Prussians and later the German empire.

and before that it was used by the Teutonic Knights (though slightly different in appearance, but every generation has changed the look of it)

and the knights were
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teutonic_Knights said:
The Order of the Teutonic Knights of St. Mary's Hospital in Jerusalem [1] (Latin: Ordo domus Sanctæ Mariæ Theutonicorum Hierosolymitanorum), or for short the Teutonic Order is a German Roman Catholic religious order. It was formed to aid Christians on their pilgrimages to the Holy Land and to establish hospitals to care for the sick and injured. Its members have commonly been known as the Teutonic Knights, since they also served as a crusading military order during the Middle Ages. The membership was always small and whenever the need arose, volunteers or mercenaries augmented the military forces.


Does this look familiar?
172px-Crux_Ordis_Teutonicorum.svg.png



It's called Crux Ordis Teutonicorum. I bet you can pick up on words.
 
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Similar variations have been used in many places. I don't see your point. It was a major symbol under the Prussian kings and German emperors. I doubt the Nazis chose it due to a love of Catholicism. In fact I don't think they did "choose" it, it was already in use.
 
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