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Obama finds room for lobbyists

..there seems to me like there is substantially larger difference between the former CEO of Halliburton being part (and by that I mean second in command) of the same administration that gave Halliburton billion dollar contracts...

And a guy who is :

Deputy health and human services secretary nominee

On another note though :

.....what exactly is a : Deputy Health and Human Services Secretary?

Comparing an elected figure, the Vice President, to appointed figures, Seceretary's and others, is kind of apples to oranges.

There's definitely lobbyists in Bush's camp that you could've used to use an honest comparison. Instead, you choose Dick Cheney whose not a good example because its a completely different TYPE of position. This makes me wonder why you didn't go for an actual legitimate analogy. And, even if you had...so what? Why is it okay for people to have no problem with Obama doing something (having lobbyists AND seemingly purposefully breaking a campaign promise and/or lieing) that they had a problem with Bush doing it?
 
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Pe
Obama promised change from politics as usual and thus far is a miserable failure.

He's been in office a week and you pronounce him a "miserable failure". I'm surprised you waited so long. Honeymoon, eh?

I think we all realize that when non-elected officials are not in office, they often work as lobbyists. That doesn't mean they sell their soul to K street, and it certainly doesn't brand the Obama administration as a "miserable failure"
 
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..there seems to me like there is substantially larger difference between the former CEO of Halliburton being part (and by that I mean second in command) of the same administration that gave Halliburton billion dollar contracts.

What is the difference and how is that alleged difference even relevant?

We have Obama declaring something and then Obama violating that promise. This is his new campaign theme. All of his promises come with an expiration date...all of them.
 
..there seems to me like there is substantially larger difference between the former CEO of Halliburton being part (and by that I mean second in command) of the same administration that gave Halliburton billion dollar contracts...

And a guy who is :

Deputy health and human services secretary nominee[/I]

In practice, I would assume that a Deputy Secretary of Defense will have far more contact with and influence over matters involving Raytheon than a Vice-President would have with Halliburton.

On another note though :

.....what exactly is a : Deputy Health and Human Services Secretary?


The guy who assists the guy who runs the OTHER gigantic money pit that the federal government pours its cash into.
 
In practice, I would assume that a Deputy Secretary of Defense will have far more contact with and influence over matters involving Raytheon than a Vice-President would have with Halliburton.


In fact, Cheney brazenly handed Iraq over to Halliburton with no other companies allowed to bid. I doubt Raytheon will get such a sweet deal.
 
He's been in office a week and you pronounce him a "miserable failure". I'm surprised you waited so long. Honeymoon, eh?

I think we all realize that when non-elected officials are not in office, they often work as lobbyists. That doesn't mean they sell their soul to K street, and it certainly doesn't brand the Obama administration as a "miserable failure"

Are you OK with the fact that Obama lied about having lobbyists in his administration?
 
I think we all realize that when non-elected officials are not in office, they often work as lobbyists. That doesn't mean they sell their soul to K street.

I'm trying to imagine any elected Democrat or liberal poster here saying this at any point in the past 8 years and am literally lol'ing.
 
..there seems to me like there is substantially larger difference between the former CEO of Halliburton being part (and by that I mean second in command) of the same administration that gave Halliburton billion dollar contracts...

And a guy who is :

Deputy health and human services secretary nominee

On another note though :

.....what exactly is a : Deputy Health and Human Services Secretary?

Say, aren't you one of the guys who said that, if the Bush administration only tortured a little, then it was still wrong?

So what about it? If only torturing a little is still wrong, then isn't only a little lobbyist problem also wrong? Just because Obama has fewer lobbyists in his administration than Bush had in his doesn't make Obama better than Bush. He is just as bad, in my book.
 
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I'm sure you're talking about that from a completely informed platform, right Will Rockwell? I'm sure you're not just regurgitating partisan talking points in hoping to avoid having to say something poor about Obama so you can focus an attack on Bush. Because you know...

It'd be sad if you ignored that a Congressional report sasid the contract was “properly” awarded. And I'm sure you didn't ignore that "only contractor that was determined to be in a position to provide the services within the required time frame."

That Crazy Pentagon! How DARE they award a contract that was needed to be awarded quickly to the only contractor that was in a position to handle it. They should've instead said "Screw the needs of this country, Liberals may be upset! We can't allow that" and had a bidding process, prolonging how quickly they could get the company going with the project, and in the end possibly having it awarded to a company that either was undersized for the job or awarding it to KBR anyways after wasting a ton of time.

On the issues Fact Check
 
Does anyone actually know a lobbyist? I thought they were just people representing an organization to the government. Usually picked for specific qualities.
-charismatic
-knowledge of "the Hill"
-connections with congress
-intelligent
-very knowledgeable in an area that some organization feels deserves government attention

A former lobbyist may possess all these qualities and more, but no longer represent a large contingent of people or corporations. I suppose some lobbyists represent their interest group for personal reasons, but it wouldn't surprise me if many others are just good at their job.
 
Does anyone actually know a lobbyist? I thought they were just people representing an organization to the government. Usually picked for specific qualities.
-charismatic
-knowledge of "the Hill"
-connections with congress
-intelligent
-very knowledgeable in an area that some organization feels deserves government attention

A former lobbyist may possess all these qualities and more, but no longer represent a large contingent of people or corporations. I suppose some lobbyists represent their interest group for personal reasons, but it wouldn't surprise me if many others are just good at their job.
Are you OK with the fact that Obama lied about having lobbyists in his administration?
 
Does anyone actually know a lobbyist? I thought they were just people representing an organization to the government. Usually picked for specific qualities.
-charismatic
-knowledge of "the Hill"
-connections with congress
-intelligent
-very knowledgeable in an area that some organization feels deserves government attention

A former lobbyist may possess all these qualities and more, but no longer represent a large contingent of people or corporations. I suppose some lobbyists represent their interest group for personal reasons, but it wouldn't surprise me if many others are just good at their job.

None of which deals with:

1. Obama making getting lobbyists and former lobbyists out of the government system part of his campaign.
2. Obama making a campaign promise not to have former lobbyists in his white house.
3. People who were railing agaisnt McCain and Bush about having lobbyists on staff now doing anything from giving Obama to a pass to actually saying its a GOOD thing.

I actually don't personally mind lobbyists in government. I don't instantly think "Lobbyist = bad". I've said as much in other threads, and before the election. I think choosing someone that's less qualified to be in a position simply because they've not been a lobbyist would be idiotic. I think you can be a good person and an honorable civil servent and have lobbyed for something before.

The problem is, my position is consistant. I've said it before the election, I've said it after before this happened, I've said it now, and I will likely continue to say it unless something substantial happens to make me change my mind.

Apparently though, for many people like PeteEU, that "something substantial" is simply "Someone I like is in power".

It was poor judgement by Obama at best for making the campaign promise, and a flat out lie at worst. Its absolute hypocracy on the part of people who blasted Bush for having lobbyists in his white house, blasted Mccain for having lobbyists on his campaign staff and likely to be in the white house, but then talk glowingly about lobbyists when Obama puts them in and says its okay. Its hypocritical to complain, for 8 years, about all of Bush's "Lies" but when a very clear and evident contradiction is presented for the guy they support and suddenly there are "percentages" that one can break a promise by.
 
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Are you OK with the fact that Obama lied about having lobbyists in his administration?





Given the fact the posters is rabid about calling me out for $400 kobe beef mislabling, I would be interested in his answer as well. :mrgreen:
 
Yeah I guess I didn't pay much attention to that particular quote, looks like he lied.

I thought he said something about lobbyists not having any significant influence on his administration, oh well.
 
Yeah I guess I didn't pay much attention to that particular quote, looks like he lied.

I thought he said something about lobbyists not having any significant influence on his administration, oh well.

Obama lied, period.

Just like he lied when he promised not to play the same Washington game with the same Washington players as he was appointing Rahm, Daschle, Hillary, Holder, Rice, et al.
 
Does anyone actually know a lobbyist? I thought they were just people representing an organization to the government. Usually picked for specific qualities.
-charismatic
-knowledge of "the Hill"
-connections with congress
-intelligent
-very knowledgeable in an area that some organization feels deserves government attention

A former lobbyist may possess all these qualities and more, but no longer represent a large contingent of people or corporations. I suppose some lobbyists represent their interest group for personal reasons, but it wouldn't surprise me if many others are just good at their job.

I know some lobbyists and they're great at what they do. I think they'd make fine political appointments, which is why I would never make a pledge to keep lobbyists out of my administration, were I an elected official.
 
Admitting Obama lied...err I mean, "CHANGEd his mind" would mean admitting he is not the Messiah and is in fact a politican who manipulated the medias muckraking of Bush magnifcantely to make unrealistic promises to win a campaign. No Obamaniac can admit this without inducing a stroke. Thus, cognitive dissonance in Obamaphiles usually results in denial or red-herrings, E.G., B...B...Bu...Bu.....Bush is bad!!!

Note: I voted for Obama. He's acting exactly as I expected: as a lying sack of politician.
 
Admitting Obama lied...err I mean, "CHANGEd his mind" would mean admitting he is not the Messiah and is in fact a politican who manipulated the medias muckraking of Bush magnifcantely to make unrealistic promises to win a campaign. No Obamaniac can admit this without inducing a stroke.
I know this is going to sound rude but maybe you would hear us if you listened to someone other than yourself. I've admitted it, I've admitted it many times. There are many things that bother me about Obama but I am stuck defending him because you people keep attacking him about things that do not bother me. I know people here may try to be all nice and informative but honestly there are a lot of outlets out there for people to vent on and they are all pretty much ridiculous.

Anyway when you want to have an intelligent discussion about Obama's past and present failures then I am all ears. I have yet to hear anything at all about that outside of here... all I hear is "Obama is a socialist", or "Obama is a muslim", or "Obama the Messiah". To be perfectly honest I don't think the little people in the GOP really know why they hate the guy at all because they don't know 1 thing about him or anything else for that matter.

Someone makes some chili and of course, "I WANT SOME CHILI!!", "NO, YOU CAN'T HAVE CHILI!" blah blah blah nothing is ever getting done.
 
I know this is going to sound rude but maybe you would hear us if you listened to someone other than yourself.
Who is "us"? And I can't listen to you because your written words don't talk to me. :mrgreen:

I've admitted it, I've admitted it many times. There are many things that bother me about Obama but I am stuck defending him because you people keep attacking him about things that do not bother me.
Why do you think this this about you?

I know people here may try to be all nice and informative but honestly there are a lot of outlets out there for people to vent on and they are all pretty much ridiculous.
pot meet kettle

Anyway when you want to have an intelligent discussion about Obama's past and present failures then I am all ears.
see above.

I have yet to hear anything at all about that outside of here... all I hear is "Obama is a socialist", or "Obama is a muslim", or "Obama the Messiah".
umm this thread is about Obama being a LIAR about LOBBYISTS. Not about the red-herrings you mention.

To be perfectly honest I don't think the little people in the GOP really know why they hate the guy at all because they don't know 1 thing about him or anything else for that matter.
I know he lied about lobbyists. :shock: you do know that that is what this thread is about right?

As a bonus its an psychology experiment about Obamaphiles experiencing cognitive dissonance and how they deal with it. :2rofll:

Someone makes some chili and of course, "I WANT SOME CHILI!!", "NO, YOU CAN'T HAVE CHILI!" blah blah blah nothing is ever getting done.
This didn't make sense at all. Were you making a chili dinner for your kids and incidentally typed your experience? :mrgreen:
 
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As a bonus its an psychology experiment about Obamaphiles experiencing cognitive dissonance and how they deal with it.
There you go.


This didn't make sense at all.
Your total lack of empathy and plain old fashioned common sense certainly explains a lot.

If the only thing you have to stand up to me with is that you don't like me then this "debate" is going to be a short one. :lol:

You really need to grow up especially if you want me to waste my time "debating" things with you of which you just won't listen to regardless. Your logic is predetermined and at any point anybody else's logic is not predetermined you attempt to bully them into submission or you cry about it until it or you simply goes away. It's a ridiculous tactic that has become quite predictable.
 
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There you go.



Your total lack of empathy and plain old fashioned common sense certainly explains a lot.

If the only thing you have to stand up to me with is that you don't like me then this "debate" is going to be a short one. :lol:

You really need to grow up especially if you want me to waste my time "debating" things with you of which you just won't listen to regardless. Your logic is predetermined and at any point anybody else's logic is not predetermined you attempt to bully them into submission or you cry about it until it or you simply goes away. It's a ridiculous tactic that has become quite predictable.

So adhoms aside, why don't you think Obama's flip-flop/"changing his mind"/lie/"adapting to change" or however you want to spin it is not indicative of future broken campaign promises?
 
Well the very first one that came to me was his support of the patriot act and all the civil liberty that it distinctively took away. I complained about that as soon as I read about it but it was left to drown under all the other junk that was being thrown around at the time.

I really kind of feel responsible. I feel like a lot of people out there may have been influenced by my logic because it was similar to theirs and I was really just a fool because no one on either side is going to really represent me and my opinions. The fact is that I mean jack to them and they don't care about that in itself either and it's just the same for all of us really.

I don't approve of his support of illegal immigrants. Not much to say about it other than that. It speaks for itself really. Being born on American soil used to mean something. I don't know what it means anymore. The world hates us and I don't blame them and there really is no justifiable answer in sight that will make everybody happy. It seems pointless to even think about it.

I don't approve of him being compared to Martin Luther King Jr. nor do I approve of him putting Martin Luther King III on the podium because that was absolutely disrespectful to the memory of his father if anyone has actually done research on what his son does to disrespect his family's name and honor. This guy is selling his name to the highest bidder and it really seems like Obama is doing just the same but he is selling out every single african-american with him. These people believe in him and it really makes me sick because a lot of people, black or white, have a lot of other junk to put up with without all this crap being thrown at them, crap they can't even see clearly... every empathic nerve in my body gets angry when I think about it.

I don't know... I am just depressed... I am going to go eat some pizza and get a nice buzz going.:doh
I will post more later.



edited for typos
 
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I expect that if you are staffing a new government in Washington, it would be next to impossible to find people who have never been employed by lobbying firms. What's more, most of the time that connection is quite innocent.
 
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