Georgia 'seizes Russian soldier'

Link
BBC NEWS | Europe | Georgia 'seizes Russian soldier'

As this soldier was interviewed and that interview was shown on Georgian TV, additionally he asked for asylum, it is difficult to see how Russia could demand his return.
Conditions within the Russian army (which basically consists of National service conscripts) are such that no sensible person would ever volunteer for.

jujuman13 said:

Link
BBC NEWS | Europe | Georgia 'seizes Russian soldier'

As this soldier was interviewed and that interview was shown on Georgian TV, additionally he asked for asylum, it is difficult to see how Russia could demand his return.
Conditions within the Russian army (which basically consists of National service conscripts) are such that no sensible person would ever volunteer for.

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Look for another Russian pretext to attack Georgia. They are also working on pretexts to invade Ukraine as well.

ludahai said:

Look for another Russian pretext to attack Georgia. They are also working on pretexts to invade Ukraine as well.

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Look for another Russian pretext to attack Georgia.

Sure, and Georgia has proven to be all rosy and gentle. Russia has the right to attack Georgia if it does not receive a proof that the guy was not kidnapped. Russia has a right to demand free and just trial for violation of Russian laws and evidence that the guy was not mistreated in the Russian military, that the Russian military broke Russian laws in his case. A political asylum is given by the US if defectors have a proof of persecution due to political reasons or due to other violation of Human rights. It does not give an asylum if one claims that he was persecuted but cannot substantiate the claims.


Sure, and Ukraine has proven to be all rosy and gentle. Sure, Russian worked pretext and then invaded peaceful Georgia in August. You are full of.

jujuman13 said:

Link
BBC NEWS | Europe | Georgia 'seizes Russian soldier'

As this soldier was interviewed and that interview was shown on Georgian TV, additionally he asked for asylum, it is difficult to see how Russia could demand his return.

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The ground for demand is, - he violated Russian law. Russia has the right to demand a proof that it was his free will.

YouTube - Georgia kidnapped Russian soldier

It is another Russian soldier voluntarily denouncing Russian Army and Government in Georgia:

YouTube - ruski soldatik, putin i medvedev chmo

As the matter of fact it is absolutely unreasonable to believe that a DEMBEL and a Sergeant of Russian army would defect to Georgia and he would complain about conditions in Russian Army. It is absolutely unexpectable from a DEMBEL or/and Sergeant. The only case may be if he committed a crime in Russia and had no other way to go.

jujuman13 said:

Conditions within the Russian army (which basically consists of National service conscripts) are such that no sensible person would ever volunteer for.

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Russian Army still mostly drafts – 18 years olds, who are not capable to give bribes and do not have connections and are not University students. A reform is planned and to make it all like in the US, - contract service. Some units now are mostly - as Tashah calls them kontraktnici, all alcogolics and serial killers. She does not know that Kontraktniki = CONTRACTniki.

This particular part of Russian military- VDV- is in large part volunteers, CONTRACTniki.
YouTube - Non-official Russian Airborne troops anthem-Sineva



‘’6th Company … fought well against enormous odds once it moved to Hill 776 under the effective leadership of the battalion commander and his deputy.

.All this occurred in enormously difficult terrain and weather conditions and against tenacious Chechen resistance.
… no 6th Company soldiers were taken prisoner. They refused to give up their position, even while knowing they would be overrun and killed.

Despite glaring tactical mistakes in security and reconnaissance, the Russian airborne spirit successfully imbued its men with the morale and courage that come with pride of corps.’’

Ulus-Kert: An Airborne Company's Last Stand [Archive] - Military Photos

Before the reform 90 Russian VDV came across a 700 (some estimate up to 2000) Chechen rebels and Arab mercenaries on a narrow path . 18- 19 years old draftees did not surrender, only 4 wounded and 2 bruised survived. They killed about 300 Muslim fighters and when too few were left alive they according to the old tradition of the Russian military radioed their own coordinates to their artillery (calling fire upon themselves) and said ‘’good buy, brothers’’. They artillery fire killed a few more hundreds of Muslims.

This is a remembrance of the 6th Company of 104th Regiment of 76th VDV Divison . If anybody is interested to look at the faces of The 2 survivers they are talking from 3:27 – how it was their first fight and how they were scared.

YouTube - 776 hill - the Feat of Pskovs VDV (paratroopers)

Jujuman13,

I am not so sure that the soldier deserted, and will look for further details on the situation.

First, the BBC reported, "In a televised interview filmed by the Georgian army, Alexander Glukhov said he decided to seek asylum in Georgia because he was fed up with poor conditions in the Russian army." Unless an outside organization e.g., the International Red Cross speaks with the soldier, it is entirely possible that the soldier was under undue influence or duress in the interview conducted by the Georgian Army.

Second, RIA Novosti news agency reported on January 28, "Konashenkov "[Col Igor Konashenkov] stressed that the command of the military unit had no complaints against junior sergeant Glukhov, during the whole period of service he conscientiously performed his duties and never committed any violations of the law or crimes. The junior sergeant served more than a year and was due to be discharged from service in four months." If. Col. Konashenkov is correct that Glukhov's discharge was imminent, it makes little sense that he would suddenly seek to desert when his service is about to end.

donsutherland1 said:

Jujuman13,

I am not so sure that the soldier deserted, and will look for further details on the situation.

First, the BBC reported, "In a televised interview filmed by the Georgian army, Alexander Glukhov said he decided to seek asylum in Georgia because he was fed up with poor conditions in the Russian army." Unless an outside organization e.g., the International Red Cross speaks with the soldier, it is entirely possible that the soldier was under undue influence or duress in the interview conducted by the Georgian Army.

Second, RIA Novosti news agency reported on January 28, "Konashenkov "[Col Igor Konashenkov] stressed that the command of the military unit had no complaints against junior sergeant Glukhov, during the whole period of service he conscientiously performed his duties and never committed any violations of the law or crimes. The junior sergeant served more than a year and was due to be discharged from service in four months." If. Col. Konashenkov is correct that Glukhov's discharge was imminent, it makes little sense that he would suddenly seek to desert when his service is about to end.

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DEMBEL is from - DEMoBiLisation, or disharge. Those who have less than 6 months to go and have a rank - junior sergeant is the 3rd (out of 5 available) from the bottom, - enjoy a lot of priviligies and liberties if to compare with the rest (while first months are really hard to go through for a many).

justone said:

Sure, and Georgia has proven to be all rosy and gentle. Russia has the right to attack Georgia if it does not receive a proof that the guy was not kidnapped. Russia has a right to demand free and just trial for violation of Russian laws and evidence that the guy was not mistreated in the Russian military, that the Russian military broke Russian laws in his case. A political asylum is given by the US if defectors have a proof of persecution due to political reasons or due to other violation of Human rights. It does not give an asylum if one claims that he was persecuted but cannot substantiate the claims.

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As I said, looking for a pretext. That is NOT a right to attack. Russia invaded Georgia in the first place. They had NO right to do that.

Sure, and Ukraine has proven to be all rosy and gentle. Sure, Russian worked pretext and then invaded peaceful Georgia in August. You are full of.

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Ukraine supported Georgia in the war and has told Russia that it wants RUssian forces out of the Crimea by the end of the current deal in 2017.

Russian troops have been in Georgian territory for more than a decade, precipitated a conflict which led to Russian recoginition of two break-away regions which will lead to eventual annexation.

A bunch of lies as usual, not even worth of reply.

carry on.

justone said:

A bunch of lies as usual, not even worth of reply.

carry on.

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:rofl:rofl

I love Russian apologists. You can't answer a point, you ignore it. You don't know what customary international law is - you obfuscate it. You are as much fun as a recently departed Sino-pologist.

ludahai said:

Look for another Russian pretext to attack Georgia. They are also working on pretexts to invade Ukraine as well.

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It's not necessarily a pretext. How would you feel if another nation captured a US soldier, who was then interviewed on television and claimed he wished to defect? Wouldn't that raise any red flags that maybe this wasn't voluntary?

Kandahar said:

It's not necessarily a pretext. How would you feel if another nation captured a US soldier, who was then interviewed on television and claimed he wished to defect? Wouldn't that raise any red flags that maybe this wasn't voluntary?

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I want more information first. I would have to say there is far more reason to desert the Russian Army than the U.S. Army.

Russia still maintains a presence on Georgian soil and has recognized the independence of two regions within the internationally recognized boundaries of Georgia. Russia does not exactly have a lot of credibility.

link

Georgian officials countered that the soldier had asked for asylum due to "unbearable conditions" in the Russian army and even took him to the central Tbilisi branch of fast food chain McDonalds.

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He said Glukhov was a conscript performing his compulsory military service.

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An AFP correspondent later found Glukhov tucking into supper in a branch of McDonalds on Tbilisi's main avenue, accompanied by minders from the Georgian interior ministry.

Glukhov told several media correspondents who had been tipped off over his presence in the restaurant that he had neither been captured or mistreated.

"Nobody took me," said Glukhov, adding he was unaware of the reports from Moscow that he had been captured. "I want to go back to Russia but not to the army."

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Unless you are going to claim AFP is part of the Georgian propoganda ministry, I would say the ball's in your court (appropriate as I am watching the Aussie Open right now)

ludahai said:

I want more information first. I would have to say there is far more reason to desert the Russian Army than the U.S. Army.

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There are reasons to desert the Russian Army... to defect to Georgia... for this DEMBEL and Seargant...

One should beleive that he was so fed with conditions in the Russian Army that he decided to change them for the status of a deserter and nobody in Georgia, for a lot worse conditions?

Again you demonstrate total lack of minimal logic.

ludahai said:

:rofl:rofl

I love Russian apologists. You can't answer a point, you ignore it. You don't know what customary international law is - you obfuscate it. You are as much fun as a recently departed Sino-pologist.

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I love absurd apologists. You cannot make any point except blank lies and you have an absurd idea that they are worth of a reply. You don’t even know what is common sense and logic, and you are no fun, as you have time on hand to type lies and keep on going for years.

Kandahar said:

It's not necessarily a pretext. How would you feel if another nation captured a US soldier, who was then interviewed on television and claimed he wished to defect? Wouldn't that raise any red flags that maybe this wasn't voluntary?

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In his understanding of international laws you cannot apply the same standard to Russia, - Russia has no rights and Russian people have no feelings, he calls it ‘’customary international law’’. In his ‘’customary international law’’ laws Russia has to prove to Georgia and to the international community that the soldier was not kidnapped, that the balls are in Russian court. For him the US has rights when Russia does not, don't even try he has 2 degrees in social science.

justone said:

There are reasons to desert the Russian Army... to defect to Georgia... for this DEMBEL and Seargant...

One should beleive that he was so fed with conditions in the Russian Army that he decided to change them for the status of a deserter and nobody in Georgia, for a lot worse conditions?

Again you demonstrate total lack of minimal logic.

I love absurd apologists. You cannot make any point except blank lies and you have an absurd idea that they are worth of a reply. You don’t even know what is common sense and logic, and you are no fun, as you have time on hand to type lies and keep on going for years.

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I love how you actually ignore the quotes of the soldier as reported in the AFP. Now, is AFP part of the Georgian propoganda department? Or are you just so embarassed that the very words of the soldier who left contradicts everything you are saying.

ALso, you once again display a total lack of even minimal principles of international law and its sources.

justone said:

In his understanding of international laws you cannot apply the same standard to Russia, - Russia has no rights and Russian people have no feelings, he calls it ‘’customary international law’’. In his ‘’customary international law’’ laws Russia has to prove to Georgia and to the international community that the soldier was not kidnapped, that the balls are in Russian court. For him the US has rights when Russia does not, don't even try he has 2 degrees in social science.

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You have no idea about international law.

What is customary international law? Do you even know?

The soldier in his own words has stated that he wanted to leave, unless you think the AFP reporter is lying and can provide some evidence for such behavior from a respected news organization.

''An AFP correspondent later found Glukhov tucking into supper in a branch of McDonalds on Tbilisi's main avenue, accompanied by minders from the Georgian interior ministry.''


You can hear the minders from the Georgian interior ministry on the background.
YouTube - ruski soldatik, putin i medvedev chmo