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Pope move ignites Holocaust row

I don't know, is it? I have seen many people post that they had made a complaint about a post with varying degrees of specificity in the post. I have on a couple of occasions with border-line cases that I WOULD make a report if it continued or got worse. I suppose it depends on your intentions. However, at the same time, you have to admit that a couple of the posts on the first page of this thread were HIGHLY offensive and way over the line.
They certainly contained ridiculous stereotypes that were intended to be nasty just like the countless threads and posts by people who are upset about so-called Catholic bashing yet they very well might have written equally offensive Muslim bashing posts over and over again. I'm not saying anyone specifically in this thread but I think you know what I mean.

Many people tolerate Muslim bashing but they are offended by Catholic bashers.

Is there a difference?
 
They certainly contained ridiculous stereotypes that were intended to be nasty just like the countless threads and posts by people who are upset about so-called Catholic bashing yet they very well might have written equally offensive Muslim bashing posts over and over again. I'm not saying anyone specifically in this thread but I think you know what I mean.

Many people tolerate Muslim bashing but they are offended by Catholic bashers.

Is there a difference?

And if Muslims are offended and want to complain, so be it. However, I am a Catholic as is Felicity. There were clearly offensive statements which deserved to be reported as they were clear violations of rule 18. I am not a Muslim. If they are offended, they should report it.
 
And if Muslims are offended and want to complain, so be it. However, I am a Catholic as is Felicity. There were clearly offensive statements which deserved to be reported as they were clear violations of rule 18. I am not a Muslim. If they are offended, they should report it.
What does it matter what you are? Either the posts are offensive or they are not. Are you saying Muslim bashing posts of equal nastiness to the ones in this thread that you're complaining about do not offend you?

I am offended by anti-Catholic posts, Anti-Jewish posts, Anti-Muslim posts Anti-Atheist posts. I think we all have a right to choose our own religions and one is not more right than another or not having one is not more wrong or right either.

Your post reads as if you're offended by what you perceive as Anti-Catholic posts but Anti-Muslim does not matter to you.
 
What does it matter what you are? Either the posts are offensive or they are not. Are you saying Muslim bashing posts of equal nastiness to the ones in this thread that you're complaining about do not offend you?

I am offended by anti-Catholic posts, Anti-Jewish posts, Anti-Muslim posts Anti-Atheist posts. I think we all have a right to choose our own religions and one is not more right than another or not having one is not more wrong or right either.

Your post reads as if you're offended by what you perceive as Anti-Catholic posts but Anti-Muslim does not matter to you.

I am not a Muslim, so I am not entirely aware of what they would find offensive. Just as if you are not Catholic, you may not be aware of the things that may offend a Catholic. At a school I taught at in the Atlanta area a few years ago, a student group used a drawing of the Pope with black painted fingernails to promote one of their events. They may have thought it was ok, but the Catholics in the school were offended (some downright ANGRY about it). I asked the faculty advisor of the group to pull down the poster and advise their students of the sensitivity of this to the school's Catholic minority.
 
I am not a Muslim, so I am not entirely aware of what they would find offensive. Just as if you are not Catholic, you may not be aware of the things that may offend a Catholic. At a school I taught at in the Atlanta area a few years ago, a student group used a drawing of the Pope with black painted fingernails to promote one of their events. They may have thought it was ok, but the Catholics in the school were offended (some downright ANGRY about it). I asked the faculty advisor of the group to pull down the poster and advise their students of the sensitivity of this to the school's Catholic minority.
So are you saying you've never noticed any offensive threads or posts that were nasty anti-Muslim? Never noticed any anti-Jewish posts either?

Really?
 
And if Muslims are offended and want to complain, so be it. However, I am a Catholic as is Felicity. There were clearly offensive statements which deserved to be reported as they were clear violations of rule 18. I am not a Muslim. If they are offended, they should report it.

It's not our fault the catholic church supported hiding pedophiles. Maybe they should have made a stand against it.

Blame the Catholic Church.

The Catholic church supported hiding pedophiles until it became public.

Bunch of Child Molesters is what the Catholic church supported.

But hey, what's a little head between the alter boys between priests is what they supported.

As someone that knew a person that was molested as a child, I think the Catholic's church's policy of hiding child molesters was pathetic at best.
 
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So are you saying you've never noticed any offensive threads or posts that were nasty anti-Muslim? Never noticed any anti-Jewish posts either?

Really?

I will leave it up to Muslims and Jews to report on threads they think are offensive. I am not an adequate judge of their feelings to make that decision for them. To do so would be arrogant on my part.
 
It's not our fault the catholic church supported hiding pedophiles. Maybe they should have made a stand against it.

Blame the Catholic Church.

The Catholic church supported hiding pedophiles until it became public.

Bunch of Child Molesters is what the Catholic church supported.

But hey, what's a little head between the alter boys between priests is what they supported.

As someone that knew a person that was molested as a child, I think the Catholic's church's policy of hiding child molesters was pathetic at best.

It was a decision made by individuals in the Church and it was a massive mistake. However, it was NOT the policy of the Church to do this. One think you forget however is that the Catholic Church, like other Christian denominations, is based on forgiveness. While the "cover-up" was the wrong decision, if you understand the values of the Faith, you would understand the need for forgiveness. A parting comment: "To whom much is given, much is expected." Those involved in the molestation and the cover-up will have much to answer for from a much higher authority.
 
Didn't you know the Hamas and the rest of the islamotards don't need evidence.

Is "islamotards" hate speech?

Imagine the outrage if someone said "Catholitards".
 
Link
BBC NEWS | Europe | Pope move ignites Holocaust row

How can anyone who claims to be able to have a reasonable and sane mind actually condone a Holocaust denier?
And yet, here we have once again the Holy Roman Catholic Church in it's wisdom doing just that.
Typical hypocrisy from a typically hypocritical Church headed by an obviously unrepentant Nazi.

Unrepentant Nazi?:shock:

The priest saying that the holocaust never happened is based in an excellent scientific report made by investigating the residual of gas in the walls of the chambers. The leader of this investigation is an expert by the fact that he was in charge of building gas chambers here in US to be used for execution of criminals.

The priest is practically a "lover of science", this priest appears to reject the great propaganda made for so many years that millions of Jews died in such assumed gas chambers.

You don't have to be a Nazi supporter to understand that the gas chambers never existed, you only must trust in solid science to verify what happened in those concentrations camps...and the answer given by scientific evidence is that the holocaust is a hoax.

What is going on between the Pope and this priest appears to be that they are creating the scandal to spread out the scientific evidence showing the holocaust hoax...a smart move...:coffeepap
 
Unrepentant Nazi?:shock:

You don't have to be a Nazi supporter to understand that the gas chambers never existed, you only must trust in solid science to verify what happened in those concentrations camps...and the answer given by scientific evidence is that the holocaust is a hoax.

What is going on between the Pope and this priest appears to be that they are creating the scandal to spread out the scientific evidence showing the holocaust hoax...a smart move...:coffeepap

A Challenger Appears!!!

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Unrepentant Nazi?:shock:

The priest saying that the holocaust never happened is based in an excellent scientific report made by investigating the residual of gas in the walls of the chambers. The leader of this investigation is an expert by the fact that he was in charge of building gas chambers here in US to be used for execution of criminals.

The priest is practically a "lover of science", this priest appears to reject the great propaganda made for so many years that millions of Jews died in such assumed gas chambers.

You don't have to be a Nazi supporter to understand that the gas chambers never existed, you only must trust in solid science to verify what happened in those concentrations camps...and the answer given by scientific evidence is that the holocaust is a hoax.

What is going on between the Pope and this priest appears to be that they are creating the scandal to spread out the scientific evidence showing the holocaust hoax...a smart move...:coffeepap

I sincerely hope you aren't referring to the absolutely laughable study that was put out by Fred A. Leuchter Jr. Yes, I saw the Errol Morris documentary Mr. Death too and it turns out that the scrapings that he illegally got from the walls of the gas chambers were insufficiently collected. They found no traces of cyanide because he dug too deep and got more of the wall than he was supposed to have gotten. Not to mention the fact that he wasn't using professional equipment to get his samples and it wasn't a controlled. Do yourself a favor and watch the movie if you haven't already and you'll see how much of a crackpot and a fraud Fred A. Leuchter Jr. really is.

And here's more from the Wikipedia entry on Leuchter:

Lab manager James Roth swore under oath to the results at the trial.[1] It was only after he got off the stand that Roth learned what the trial was about. In an interview for Morris's film, Roth states that cyanide would have formed an extremely fine layer on the walls, to the depth of one-tenth of a human hair. Leuchter had taken samples of indeterminate thickness (he is seen in Morris's film hammering at the bricks with a rock hammer).[1] Not informed of this, Roth had pulverized the entire samples, thus severely diluting the cyanide-containing layer of each sample with an indeterminate amount of brick, varying for each sample. Roth offers the analogy that the tests were like "analyzing paint on a wall by analyzing the timber that's behind it."[1]

Leuchter did not examine the walls of the gas chambers until fifty years after they had been used; his critics note that it would have been virtually impossible to discover any cyanide at all using his method. In fact, tests conducted on ventilation grates immediately after the end of the war showed substantial amounts of cyanide. The chambers were demolished by the Nazis when they abandoned Auschwitz, and the facilities Leuchter examined were, in fact, partially reconstructed. Leuchter was unaware that part of the camp and chambers were reconstructed, so he had no way of knowing if the bricks he was scraping were actually part of the original gas chamber.
 
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Unrepentant Nazi?:shock:

The priest saying that the holocaust never happened is based in an excellent scientific report made by investigating the residual of gas in the walls of the chambers. The leader of this investigation is an expert by the fact that he was in charge of building gas chambers here in US to be used for execution of criminals.

The priest is practically a "lover of science", this priest appears to reject the great propaganda made for so many years that millions of Jews died in such assumed gas chambers.

You don't have to be a Nazi supporter to understand that the gas chambers never existed, you only must trust in solid science to verify what happened in those concentrations camps...and the answer given by scientific evidence is that the holocaust is a hoax.

What is going on between the Pope and this priest appears to be that they are creating the scandal to spread out the scientific evidence showing the holocaust hoax...a smart move...:coffeepap
Lies. The Holocaust was a real and horrific human tragedy that words cannot even begin to express.
 
Vatican confirms former bishop Williamson violated Church teachings with his holocaust denial...

From Haaretz:

The Vatican said Monday that comments by a recently rehabilitated bishop that no Jews were gassed during the Holocaust were unacceptable and violate Church teaching...

One of the key documents issued by Vatican II was Nostra Aetate, which said the Church deplored all forms of anti-Semitism. The document revolutionized the Church's relations with Jews.

In the article, L'Osservatore said Benedict and his predecessors had all made clear the Church's teaching on Nostra Aetate in documents, actions and speeches and that its contents are not debatable for Catholics.


As stated earlier, I believe the Vatican's decision to reverse the excommunication of former bishop Williamson was a mistake.
 
Vatican confirms former bishop Williamson violated Church teachings with his holocaust denial...

From Haaretz:

The Vatican said Monday that comments by a recently rehabilitated bishop that no Jews were gassed during the Holocaust were unacceptable and violate Church teaching...

One of the key documents issued by Vatican II was Nostra Aetate, which said the Church deplored all forms of anti-Semitism. The document revolutionized the Church's relations with Jews.

In the article, L'Osservatore said Benedict and his predecessors had all made clear the Church's teaching on Nostra Aetate in documents, actions and speeches and that its contents are not debatable for Catholics.


As stated earlier, I believe the Vatican's decision to reverse the excommunication of former bishop Williamson was a mistake.

But the Pope is infallible. ;)
 
Vatican confirms former bishop Williamson violated Church teachings with his holocaust denial...

From Haaretz:

The Vatican said Monday that comments by a recently rehabilitated bishop that no Jews were gassed during the Holocaust were unacceptable and violate Church teaching...

One of the key documents issued by Vatican II was Nostra Aetate, which said the Church deplored all forms of anti-Semitism. The document revolutionized the Church's relations with Jews.

In the article, L'Osservatore said Benedict and his predecessors had all made clear the Church's teaching on Nostra Aetate in documents, actions and speeches and that its contents are not debatable for Catholics.


As stated earlier, I believe the Vatican's decision to reverse the excommunication of former bishop Williamson was a mistake.
I understand that you think that, Don, but do you recognize that it is a technicality--just because one acts or believes something that contradicts a teaching of the Church--even if that teaching is not debatable, that does not necessarily place them in schism and preclude them from the Sacraments. There are essential tenets that one can be excommunicated for for rejecting, but there are many many social teachings that are true teachings of the Church but not something that rises to the level of "pure dogma" and therefore is not something that is schismatic.

It is true sin--it truly separates the person from the unity of the Church, but it does not break the bond of being a part of the Body of Christ. It makes them sinners, not necessarily in schism. They are wrong most definitely--but schism is a very specific term and I provided links explaining it's meaning and the circumstances.

The specific "pure dogma" that put the group in schism was refusal to submit to the spiritual authority of the Bishop of Rome. They apparently rectified that issue that put them in schism, but that does not solve all the errors of their teaching. So they are not in schism anymore, but they are in error concerning the Church's non-negotiable social teaching.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Before this goes any further...

This is debate politics, not debate poster or debate moderation. The attacks against posters, the discussion of what is or isn't a rule 18 or 6a violation, etc, doesn't need to go on past this post.

Stick to the topic please (and thanks to those that stopped taking bait of people trying to continue this off topic line of conversation and decided to get back and stay on the topic)
 
I sincerely hope you aren't referring to the absolutely laughable study that was put out by Fred A. Leuchter Jr. Yes, I saw the Errol Morris documentary Mr. Death too and it turns out that the scrapings that he illegally got from the walls of the gas chambers were insufficiently collected. They found no traces of cyanide because he dug too deep and got more of the wall than he was supposed to have gotten. Not to mention the fact that he wasn't using professional equipment to get his samples and it wasn't a controlled. Do yourself a favor and watch the movie if you haven't already and you'll see how much of a crackpot and a fraud Fred A. Leuchter Jr. really is.

And here's more from the Wikipedia entry on Leuchter:

Nahhh

Leuchter knew more about gas chambers than anyone around, he built gas chambers, you cannot challenge him.

Gas Chambers: The Leuchter Report Vindicated



Based on spurious knowledge, inducing specious logic which leads to false conclusions, Pressac's attacks on The Leuchter Report stem from faulty scientific and technical understanding, and thus utterly fail to demolish it. As already noted, since the publication of Truth Prevails, a study by Poland's leading forensic institute has given strong corroboration to Leuchter's findings, and thus to his methodology.

Pressac's ad hominem attacks on Leuchter and Faurisson, who by daring to subject the gas chamber myth to scientific and technical investigation, have risked their livelihoods, their personal freedom, and even their lives, will, one hopes, strike future generations of readers as no less obscurantist than the attacks directed at Galileo, at Darwin, or at the geneticists who dared to defy Lysenko during the Stalin years. May The Leuchter Report help to free, not only the Western world, but the entire literate world from the chains of an oppressive illusion -- the lie of the Hitler gas chambers.
 
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Nahhh

Leuchter knew more about gas chambers than anyone around, he built gas chambers, you cannot challenge him.

Gas Chambers: The Leuchter Report Vindicated

Uh..I already did. If you have seen the documentary it is clear that he didn't have a clue about what he was doing and that the samples he collected were faulty. Not only that, but nobody knows for sure if the rooms that he collected samples from were actually used as gas chambers. The fact that Leuchter was hired to do the investigation is a joke. Just because the man built gas chambers doesn't mean that he knows the proper scientific methods of collecting data for such a thing. In fact it already has been proven that he doesn't have the expertise considering that he dug too deep in the wall and if there was cyanide residue on the walls it would have been a hair thin film.

Oh, and you are kidding yourself if you think I'm going to believe any propaganda from the CODOH (Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust) which is really an agenda and hate driven organization founded by renowned Holocaust denier Bradley Smith.
 
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Uh..I already did. If you have seen the documentary it is clear that he didn't have a clue about what he was doing and that the samples he collected were faulty. Not only that, but nobody knows for sure if the rooms that he collected samples from were actually used as gas chambers. The fact that Leuchter was hired to do the investigation is a joke. Just because the man built gas chambers doesn't mean that he knows the proper scientific methods of collecting data for such a thing. In fact it already has been proven that he doesn't have the expertise considering that he dug too deep in the wall and if there was cyanide residue on the walls it would have been a hair thin film.

Oh, and you are kidding yourself if you think I'm going to believe any propaganda from the CODOH (Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust) which is really an agenda and hate driven organization founded by renowned Holocaust denier Bradley Smith.

Come on, you must be mature enough to admit that the farce is over, and that the scientific evidence rules over any fanaticism.

Gas Chambers: The Leuchter Report Vindicated

The Holocaust museum in Washington DC can be converted into a great shelter for the homeless, we need to find a good use for that building dedicated to promote sorry for the victims of injustices of the world...:coffeepap
 
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Come on, you must be mature enough to admit that the farce is over, and that the scientific evidence rules over any fanaticism.

Gas Chambers: The Leuchter Report Vindicated

The Holocaust museum in Washington DC can be converted into a great shelter for the homeless, we need to find a good use for that building dedicated to promote sorry for the victims of injustices of the world...:coffeepap

Agenda-driven propaganda is not and never will be scientific evidence. Personally I'm surprised that there are still people like you who deny the Holocaust. Holocaust deniers are no different than any other conspiracy theory loons. It's truly unbelievable to me that anyone would actually believe that all of those people who survived the horrors of the Holocaust were just lying.
 
Agenda-driven propaganda is not and never will be scientific evidence. Personally I'm surprised that there are still people like you who deny the Holocaust. Holocaust deniers are no different than any other conspiracy theory loons. It's truly unbelievable to me that anyone would actually believe that all of those people who survived the horrors of the Holocaust were just lying.

If what you say its true, there should not be any argument against the Leuchter report in the first place, but when smoke is around...

Gas Chambers: The Leuchter Report Vindicated


The priest who accepted the Leuchter report and that now is in trouble with his church denomination, he is not an antisemitic person, he is just following the new technology that science offers to us to probe arguments. In this case, and regardless of the claims of many, evidence rules and science has declared that the holocaust simply never happened.

Do the right thing.

The only way to discredit these scientific conclusions made by Leuchter, is that you or anyone to collect samples from those chambers and probe the contrary. Listen, scientifically speaking, to deny here and there means nothing unless you repeat the tests in your way, as long as you follow the requisites of the scientific method as Leuchter did, and show "your evidence".

Until then, the gas chambers never existed. :coffeepap
 
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If what you say its true, there should not be any argument against the Leuchter report in the first place, but when smoke is around...

Gas Chambers: The Leuchter Report Vindicated


The priest who accepted the Leuchter report and that now is in trouble with his church denomination, he is not an antisemitic person, he just is following the new technology that science offers to us to probe arguments. In this case, regardless of the claims of many, well, evidence rules and science has declared that the holocaust simply never happened.

Do the right thing.

The only way to discredit these scientific conclusions made by Leuchter, is that you or anyone to collect samples from those chambers and probe the contrary. Listen, scientifically speaking, to deny here and there means nothing unless you repeat the tests in your way, as long as you follow the requisites of the scientific method as Leuchter did, and show "your evidence".

Until then, the gas chambers never existed. :coffeepap

You can keep posting the bogus article from the CODOH, but it's not going to change the fact that it's Holocaust-denier agenda driven propaganda and nothing more.
 
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