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Pope move ignites Holocaust row

The only thing I see is maybe a personal attack when he said "YOU", but other than that it is no worse than what I have seen others say about the Muslim religion sorry.

EDIT: change that, it was said about the pope, so not a personal attack, nothing wrong I see compared to what others have said about Muslims.

Read the rule again. The comments made about the religion are a violation of rule 18.
 
You're missing the point entirely. You made an inflammatory comment in reference to the Catholic Church; that you qualified the statement with some kind of excuse does nothing to alter this. The mature thing to do would be to simply retract your statement and apologize. People admit mistakes all the time and if this forum's perception of you means as little as you say it does then feel free to prove it by setting your ego aside and admitting your fault.

Okay dokey.

That's all someone has to say, that my comments are without respect to the person.
 
The only thing I see is maybe a personal attack when he said "YOU", but other than that it is no worse than what I have seen others say about the Muslim religion sorry.

EDIT: change that, it was said about the pope, so not a personal attack, nothing wrong I see compared to what others have said about Muslims.

Those are attacks against Catholics--a group of people identified by their religious affiliation. The pope is not "Catholics" or the religion of "Catholic"--he is the spiritual leader of the people. Those posts attacked the people who call themselves "Catholic". It's hate speech plain and simple.
 
Too bad the guy you choose to call your brother in the name of Christianity is a Holocaust denier. But hey. More power to you I guess.

We don't get to choose our brothers and sisters in Christ. There are Holocaust deniers everywhere. This is NOT the position of the church. Being a Holocaust denier, as disgusting as that is, is NOT grounds for denial of the Sacrament. This is such a NON-ISSUE it is insane. The anti-Catholics are really grasping for straws on this one. It is amusing even if it wasn't accompanied by the same bigoted remarks the anti-Catholics always come up with regarding altar boys and the like.
 
Too bad the guy you choose to call your brother in the name of Christianity is a Holocaust denier. But hey. More power to you I guess.

I am sure that there are other Christians that are holocaust deniers for what ever reasons. Should I disfellowship with them or should I try to open their eye's?

Anybody can tear something down. It takes skill and patience to build something up.

Moe
 
We don't get to choose our brothers and sisters in Christ. There are Holocaust deniers everywhere. This is NOT the position of the church. Being a Holocaust denier, as disgusting as that is, is NOT grounds for denial of the Sacrament. This is such a NON-ISSUE it is insane. The anti-Catholics are really grasping for straws on this one. It is amusing even if it wasn't accompanied by the same bigoted remarks the anti-Catholics always come up with regarding altar boys and the like.

Furthermore--who did Jesus associate with? He ate with tax collectors and prostitutes. Mercy and love was his message to bring sinful people to repentance.
 
Apparently while i was absent from the debatepolitics forum there was an update that doesn't allow for editing a post after 20 min.

So, please, disregard my 2nd post on this thread. As it is disrespectful to the Catholics of this forum. My apologies.
 
Furthermore--who did Jesus associate with? He ate with tax collectors and prostitutes. Mercy and love was his message to bring sinful people to repentance.

According to recent events, Jesus didn't eat with homosexuals (in reference to the position of the Church on homosexuality)
 
All the Papacy did was lift excommunication.

Of a Bishop who is a holocaust denier.

Do you know what this means?

Yes.

Does this mean that everyone who receives the Sacrament on Sundays agrees with EVERYTHING the Papacy teaches?

Strawman.

I don't agree with the Pope on everything, yet in a few hours, I will be partaking of the Eucharistic Sacrament.

Continuation of a strawman.

THis is much ado about nothing.

Rehabilitation of a holocaust denier is much ado about nothing? If this guy had been a Bishop from China claiming the Tiananmen Square Massacre never happened you'd be the first one on this forum blowing a casket over this.

Unless of course you believe that people don't have the right to believe what they want to.

More strawman.

This is NOT a religious matter, thus it is not grounds for excommunication.

3rd strawman. But here Ludahai. Considering I'm not jfuh I'll help you out so that you don't have to come up with strawmen ad nauseum on this topic :

Considering the role the Catholic Church played during WWII and the rocky position Pius XII held it would seem to me like the church who's acknowledged the horrors of the Holocaust would have it in it's best interests to not rehabilitate somebody who is not only famous enough to get on a country's national T.V. station and talk about his beliefs, opinions etc but is also firmly in opposition to a matter the CC has stated it's opinion on MANY times.
 
Okay dokey.

That's all someone has to say, that my comments are without respect to the person.

It's all well and good if you wish to personally disrespect the Pope or his office so long as it maintains a semblance of maturity and objectivity. I think what Felicity and others are taking issue with (and rightly so) is the stereotyping of Catholic clergy as pedophiles.

Technically, I'm not really a Catholic but I still feel the manner in which many, many people view the Church is terribly unfair and derisive. If you fancy yourself as some kind of objective thinker you would do well not to hop on the Catholic-hater bandwagon as have so many others. Almost every time people in this forum make a stink over the Church doing something they perceive as wrong or hypocritical there is a rational and ethical argument to explain it; the bigots simply chose to ignore any such explanations. Don't be like them. Think critically.
 
According to recent events, Jesus didn't eat with homosexuals (in reference to the position of the Church on homosexuality)

That is actually a debatable point. He ate with sinners that we know. Adultry theft prostitution homosexual all the same in the eyes of God,

Moe
 
This whole thread is hate speech and I reported it as such.

18. Hate Messages
Hate messages delivered via threads, posts, signatures, or PM's are forbidden at Debate Politics. The Moderator Team defines a hate message as any willful wording intended to ridicule, debase, degrade, intimidate, or incite violence and/or prejudicial actions against a group of people based on their race, gender, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sexual orientation, or disability. Determined violations of this rule will be subject to incur an immediate revocation of membership.

Amercan society has adopted rules and sytems of hate in my lifetime....PC,gender protectionism,affirmative action /and the rules there of..., a veritable police state,a gag order on the first ammendment...etc. Look Out...membership will be falling like a rock if we try to express oursleves in here. I tip my hat to the moderators for being leanient in enforceing this rule #18.
 
I am sure that there are other Christians that are holocaust deniers for what ever reasons. Should I disfellowship with them or should I try to open their eye's?

Depends. If they change their minds. Go for it. This guy is like 60. Doubt it'll happen now that he's old and decrepit.

Anybody can tear something down. It takes skill and patience to build something up.

Moe

Save it for church.
 
According to recent events, Jesus didn't eat with homosexuals (in reference to the position of the Church on homosexuality)

That is just wrong. You hold the Church in such low regard out of ignorance of what she actually teaches:

Catechism of the Catholic Church said:
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
 
It's all well and good if you wish to personally disrespect the Pope or his office so long as it maintains a semblance of maturity and objectivity. I think what Felicity and others are taking issue with (and rightly so) is the stereotyping of Catholic clergy as pedophiles.

Technically, I'm not really a Catholic but I still feel the manner in which many, many people view the Church is terribly unfair and derisive. If you fancy yourself as some kind of objective thinker you would do well not to hop on the Catholic-hater bandwagon as have so many others. Almost every time people in this forum make a stink over the Church doing something they perceive as wrong or hypocritical there is a rational and ethical argument to explain it; the bigots simply chose to ignore any such explanations. Don't be like them. Think critically.


Sorry. I have very little respect for the Catholic church as a regime (there are of course great people within the Catholic church as there are everywhere).

There is no critical thinking involved in the Pope able to, to continue this "Jesus eating with" metaphor, eat with a Nazi-Sympathizer and Holocaust denier, but not a homosexual.
 
Amercan society has adopted rules and sytems of hate in my lifetime....PC,gender protectionism,affirmative action /and the rules there of..., a veritable police state,a gag order on the first ammendment...etc. Look Out...membership will be falling like a rock if we try to express oursleves in here. I tip my hat to the moderators for being leanient in enforceing this rule #18.

Doesn't mean I shouldn't report it. ;)
 
And now the church is a woman...?

Boats are female too.


Actually--the Church is metaphorically "Mother Church." She nurtures our spiritual development as mothers nurture their children as they grow.
 
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That is just wrong. You hold the Church in such low regard out of ignorance of what she actually teaches:

Philippe Naughton

Pope Benedict was accused of stoking homophobia today after a speech in which he declared that saving humanity from homosexuality was just as important as saving the rainforest from destruction.

.......

Pope accused of stoking homophobia after he equates homosexuality to climate change -Times Online

I have some friends who were kicked out, and refused communion because they were Catholic and were "seen holding hands with people of the same sex".
 
We don't get to choose our brothers and sisters in Christ.

This guy wasn't born a Bishop. He can be a Christian all he wants. He wasn't born a Bishop. Now save the Sunday school for somebody who cares. That the church allows him to keep any position in the church would be unheard in the political sector or private sector.

There are Holocaust deniers everywhere.

How many of them are Bishops?

This is NOT the position of the church.

Strawman.

Being a Holocaust denier, as disgusting as that is, is NOT grounds for denial of the Sacrament.

3 strawman.

This is such a NON-ISSUE it is insane. The anti-Catholics are really grasping for straws on this one. It is amusing even if it wasn't accompanied by the same bigoted remarks the anti-Catholics always come up with regarding altar boys and the like.

Who said I was anti Catholic? 'Religious Victim Card' much?
 
Sorry. I have very little respect for the Catholic church as a regime (there are of course great people within the Catholic church as there are everywhere).

There is no critical thinking involved in the Pope able to, to continue this "Jesus eating with" metaphor, eat with a Nazi-Sympathizer and Holocaust denier, but not a homosexual.

I'm not implying that you must respect anything but I don't fully understand why you feel the need to view the Catholic Church as a regime nor am I aware of what "it" has done to earn your scorn. Perhaps you could elaborate?

Also, I'm not sure what your homosexual reference is trying to communicate. The Catholic Church actually has a very progressive position on homosexuals when one considers the view taken by Christians in general. It seems yet more elaboration is required...
 
I have some friends who were kicked out, and refused communion because they were Catholic and were "seen holding hands with people of the same sex".

A person who engages in homosexual behavior is sinning in the eyes of the Church because it is contrary to the sexual complimentarity of man and woman's creation. Furthermore, we were made in his image--and God is life generating. Man and woman were made to reflect the life generating love of God. Two men or two women can't do that--That is why the Church says it is contrary to God's design for mankind. It is not a loving act to confirm someone in what is contrary to what is deemed correct. The role of the Church is to instruct spiritually. She does her job by holding her adherents to the beliefs of the Church.
 
I'm not implying that you must respect anything but I don't fully understand why you feel the need to view the Catholic Church as a regime nor am I aware of what "it" has done to earn your scorn. Perhaps you could elaborate?

Also, I'm not sure what your homosexual reference is trying to communicate. The Catholic Church actually has a very progressive position on homosexuals when one considers the view taken by Christians in general. It seems yet more elaboration is required...

Arch Enemy said:
I have some friends who were kicked out, and refused communion because they were Catholic and were "seen holding hands with people of the same sex".

Okay let me try to explain my problem with the Catholic regime (the Papacy, I believe there are nunneries and the likes throughout the world who are nothing but wholesome beings.).

The Vatican Council has defined as "a divinely revealed dogma" that "the Roman Pontiff, when he speaks ex cathedra -- that is, when in the exercise of his office as pastor and teacher of all Christians he defines, by virtue of his supreme Apostolic authority, a doctrine of faith or morals to be held by the whole Church -- is, by reason of the Divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, possessed of that infallibility with which the Divine Redeemer wished His Church to be endowed in defining doctrines of faith and morals; and consequently that such definitions of the Roman Pontiff are irreformable of their own nature (ex sese) and not by reason of the Church's consent" (Densinger no. 1839 -- old no.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Infallibility

This is following an ancient reasoning (Deductive) that stinks of Medieval Papacy, which is not, in any sense of the word, Holy.

The reasoning, as I understand it.
If the Bible is the word of God, infallible. [True]
If Christ deems Peter as infallible [True]
If Peter indoctrinates the existence of the Papacy [True]
Then, The Papacy is infallible.

This is my basic qualm with it. I don't think there was, is, or ever will be an infallible being...

Other then that, my spitefulness of the Church comes with ignorance. i have not lived a day in the shoe of a Catholic, so to speak.
It is possibly also some sort of Neophobia, as I am terrified of their customs (not in a "oh look bear" terrified, but a fear), and their traditions (including the Pope thing).

It could also have something to do with the atrocities the Pope committed throughout history. Including being supportive of the fascist regimes in Europe, for their own necks and the mass killings they've committed in the name of Jesus Christ.
 
A person who engages in homosexual behavior is sinning in the eyes of the Church because it is contrary to the sexual complimentarity of man and woman's creation. Furthermore, we were made in his image--and God is life generating. Man and woman were made to reflect the life generating love of God. Two men or two women can't do that--That is why the Church says it is contrary to God's design for mankind. It is not a loving act to confirm someone in what is contrary to what is deemed correct. The role of the Church is to instruct spiritually. She does her job by holding her adherents to the beliefs of the Church.

I disagree with the creationist story. I am not ignorant of that, as I am with the church herself. I think it is hypocritical and wrong to single out the homosexuals AS:

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

and

Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of Cattle (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't have a variety of crops on the same field. (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't wear clothes made of more than one fabric (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't cut your hair nor shave. (Leviticus 19:27)

Any person who curseth his mother or father, must be killed. (Leviticus 20:9) Have you ever done that?

If a man cheats on his wife, or vise versa, both the man and the woman must die. (Leviticus 20:10). I wonder if Dr. Laura would like that one to be enforced?

If a man sleeps with his father's wife... both him and his father's wife is to be put to death. (Leviticus 20:11)

If a man sleeps with his wife and her mother they are all to be burnt to death. (Leviticus 20:14)

If a man or woman has sex with an animal, both human and animal must be killed. (Leviticus 20:15-16). I guess you should kill the animal since they were willing participants. Are they crazy?

If a man has sex with a woman on her period, they are both to be "cut off from their people" (Leviticus 20:18)

Psychics, wizards, and so on are to be stoned to death. (Leviticus 20:27)

If a priest's daughter is a whore, she is to be burnt at the stake. (Leviticus 21:9)

People who have flat noses, or is blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God (Leviticus 21:17-18)

Anyone who curses or blasphemes God, should be stoned to death by the community. (Leviticus 24:14-16)

Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of Cattle (Leviticus 19:19)

Bible Babble - The Laws of the Bible
 
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