Ramos and Compean Pardoned

WASHINGTON (AP) — President George W. Bush has commuted the prison sentences of two former Border Patrol guards whose convictions for shooting a Mexican drug dealer ignited debate about illegal immigration.

Bush's act of clemency on Monday for Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean was a victory for Democratic and Republican members of Congress and others who pleaded with the president to pardon the men or at least commute their sentences.

The Associated Press: Bush commutes sentences for 2 Border guards

If there was any pardon that was wished for more it would be for these two. The fact that they went to jail for a "cover up" despite following Border Patrol guidelines has been a major blow to morale to Border Patrol agents for a long time.

Great news, long over due.

I don't get it? Why should they be let go if they murdered an unarmed man and tried to cover it up? I'm not familiar with the details, but according to the linked story, that is what they were convicted of.

Tucker Case said:

I don't get it? Why should they be let go if they murdered an unarmed man and tried to cover it up? I'm not familiar with the details, but according to the linked story, that is what they were convicted of.

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You should read the link again. The suspect wasn't murdered (he was shot in the buttocks as he fled after physically assaulting a BP agent while escaping arrest for drug smuggling), he wasn't unarmed (it was never proven either way, the agent said he pointed something that looked like a gun, the suspect fled into Mexico and jumped into a van with other criminals and sped away after being shot, presumably taking the object with him), and they didn't cover it up.

The suspect is still very much alive and now serving a long sentence for drug smuggling...a case he caught long after this incident. He's an unrepentant felon.

See this thread which was already started on this subject... http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...es-sentences-former-border-patrol-agents.html

Lerxst said:

Here's why:

• The suspect was committing a felony crime by smuggling 743 pounds of marijuana into the country.
• When confronted he fled. During the capture he physically assaulted a federal agent and him left cut and bleeding on the ground.
• His assaulting the federal agent allowed for him to escape arrest.
• While escaping he pointed an object at another federal agent, and that agent in good faith believe that object to be a gun. The suspect was obviously a violent offender. He shot in self defense.
• The suspect fled into Mexico, taking with him the object he pointed at the officer.
• The Department of Homeland Security went and found the suspect, and offered him complete immunity and a temporary green card to come back and testify against these officers. Immunity! A Mexican drug smuggler gets immunity after bringing in 743lbs of marijuana, assaulting a federal officer, and escaping arrest.
• DHS lied to members of Congress about the case.
• At the trial the suspect lied on the stand.
• At the trial the Border Patrol supervisor lied on the stand despite testimony from mulitple agents that contradicted him.
• The federal prosecutor lied to the trial court and the appeals court about the suspects drug connections.
• One of the charges against them, tampering with the judicial process, was vacated under appeal.
• The only real bad deed these men committed was not completing agency mandated firearms discharge reports. To which the punishment is an unpaid suspension for five days.

Ramos-Compean.

This case was so outrageous that it united members of Congress on both sides of the aisle. It was labeled an absolute abuse of prosecutorial power. People will riot in the streets when it happens to a normal citizen, but when it happens to the cops it doesn't seem to matter much.

They should have been fully pardoned and reinstated with back pay and damages. Their careers are ruined for doing their damned jobs.

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Tucker Case said:

I don't get it? Why should they be let go if they murdered an unarmed man and tried to cover it up? I'm not familiar with the details, but according to the linked story, that is what they were convicted of.

Click to expand...

Since when do presidents NOT give pardons?

What a great day!!!!

Their long nightmare is over!

:applaud

Lerxst said:

You should read the link again. The suspect wasn't murdered (he was shot in the buttocks as he fled after physically assaulting a BP agent while escaping arrest for drug smuggling), he wasn't unarmed (it was never proven either way, the agent said he pointed something that looked like a gun, the suspect fled into Mexico and jumped into a van with other criminals and sped away after being shot, presumably taking the object with him), and they didn't cover it up.

The suspect is still very much alive and now serving a long sentence for drug smuggling...a case he caught long after this incident. He's an unrepentant felon.

Click to expand...

I was WAYYY off. Sounds like they deserved to be free, then.

rhinefire said:

Since when do presidents NOT give pardons?

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I never said Bush shouldn't give any pardons, I was curious about this particular case. I clearly read things wrong. Sounds like these guys should never have been convicted.

Their sentences were commuted. They were not pardoned.

Unlike a pardon, a commutation does not forgive the underlying offense.

A commutation lessens the severity of the punishment. A pardon excuses or forgives the offense itself.

From the OP:

Bush commutes sentences for 2 Border guards

By DEB RIECHMANN – 3 hours ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — President George W. Bush has commuted the prison sentences of two former Border Patrol guards whose convictions for shooting a Mexican drug dealer ignited debate about illegal immigration.

Bush's act of clemency on Monday for Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean was a victory for Democratic and Republican members of Congress and others who pleaded with the president to pardon the men or at least commute their sentences.

Ramos and Compean are each serving sentences of more than 10 years for shooting an unarmed illegal immigrant as he was fleeing an abandoned marijuana load in 2005, then trying to cover it up.

The Associated Press: Bush commutes sentences for 2 Border guards

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Frankly, the reporting on the incident is terrible, with everyone blatantly leaving out crucial facts. Here is what I managed to gather from reading multiple sources of different leanings.

1) No solid evidence showed that the smuggler was either armed or unarmed at the time.

2) Compean and Ramos both failed to report the incident except mentioning "I had to fire some rounds." Only later after the incident was reported from another source, did they mention firing on what they believed to be an unarmed man.

3) Compean removed shell casings and asked another agent to remove shell casings from the incident.

4) Ramos and Compean had holes in their testimony that conflicted.

All in all, it appears that these men were in fact guilty of obstruction of justice, but not assault. There is not evidence to show beyond a reasonable doubt that they shot an unarmed man. However, removing the shell casings, asking another agent to remove casings, and failing to report the incident shows clear intent of a cover-up. I would suggest these men didn't actually commit a crime until they panicked and decided to tamper with evidence and withhold information.

The 12 years conviction comes from mandatory sentencing guidelines requiring at least 10 years for committing a violent crime with a firearm, something the jury was unaware of. In my opinion, they should simply have been conivcted with obstruction of justice ( as was offered in the plea bargin), and let off on the other charges.

Overall, I will agree with Bush's choice to pardon, as the sentence far outweighs the crimes these men actually committed. Furthermore, since they won't serve in the border patrol again, they will be unable to cause further problems by covering-up evidence. A satisfactory conclusion in my mind.

I've disagreed with liberals and others on many things that Bush has done in the last 8 years, but I think that this is something that many of us agree was long overdue. I personally would not want to see Bush ever serve time for the supposed "war crimes" that he has committed. However, perhaps it would be karma if Bush did experience jail time, since he procrastinated for over 3 years in pardoning Ramos and Compean. I felt all along that Bush's hesitancy in taking this action was an outrage that tipped his hand as to his apathetic view of enforcing laws against illegal aliens. I wonder how many agents quit (or quit giving a damn) after seeing what these 2 guys went through!

At last... justice long overdue!

Tonight on Glenn Beck: Gov. Sarah Palin, Wives of Border Patrol Agents

Monday , January 19, 2009

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin and the wives of two former U.S. Border Patrol agents whose sentences were commuted by President Bush Monday will appear as exclusive guests in today’s debut of Fox News Channel’s Glenn Beck program.

Palin will be among the first guests and during a live interview with Beck’s show, which will air at 5 pm ET. The former Republican vice-presidential candidate will be followed later in the program by Patty Compean and Monica Ramos, who will also speak live about their two-year fight to secure the release of their husbands following the men’s conviction on charges they illegally shot an allegedly unarmed illegal immigrant smuggling marijuana across the Texas border in 2005.

In one of his final acts as president, Bush commuted the sentences of Ignacio Ramos and Jose Alonso Compean, convicted in 2007 of assault, discharge of a weapon in the commission of a crime of violence, deprivation of civil rights and tampering with an official.

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FOXNews.com - Tonight on Glenn Beck: Gov. Sarah Palin, Wives of Border Patrol Agents - Glenn Beck

Sounds like they should have been pardoned instead of that G-D Dam turkey.

It's about damm time.