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'Smoke-free Taiwan' takes effect today

ludahai

ludahai

Defender of the Faith
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
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Location
Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
article here

The new act bans smoking at indoor facilities designed for more than three people, such as government offices, hotels, restaurants, shopping malls, Internet cafes and karaoke bars. There are only a few exceptions to the rule — locations equipped with indoor smoking rooms that have independent air conditioning and bars that open after 9pm and forbid the entry of people under the age of 18.

It also stipulates that owners of establishments that sell cigarettes, including convenience stores, supermarkets, restaurants and betel nut stands, may not actively market or display tobacco-related ads.

It will also be illegal to smoke at bus stops, on train station platforms or at any other waiting areas. Business owners must display no-smoking signs and are not allowed to provide customers with cigarettes or any smoking-related items. Infractions will result in fines of between NT$10,000 and NT$50,000. Individuals found smoking in smoke-free facilities will be fined between NT$2,000 and NT$10,000.

Some outdoor areas, such as children’s playgrounds, amusement parks and zoos will also prohibit smoking, Yeh said.
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Time for non-smokers to take the offensive against smokers. Some local governments (including where I live) are providing incentives to provide evidence of non-compliance and offering a portion of the fine money to those who provide photographic evidence leading to the imposition and payment of fines.

My camera phone is ready.

Smoke free restaurants, night markets, parks, bus stops, etc. How nice. Poor smokers. Think I will weep for them? ABSOLUTELY NOT!
 
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Fascism. Plain and simple. I don't smoke either, so do not attempt that angle.
 
Ethereal said:
Fascism. Plain and simple. I don't smoke either, so do not attempt that angle.
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Fascism to protect non-smokers from the poison spewed out by smokers? It will nice to be able to wait for a bus and take my children to the park without having to worry about having a smoker blow poison in my face. :lol::lol::lol:
 
Great, Im a smoker and i supported this in London.
 
ludahai said:
How is it in London? Are businesses closing? Are people fleeing the city?
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Its fine, its a bitch having to stand outside but everyone has adapted to the ban pretty well and seeing medical research has proven the effects of second hand smoking and because it is such a drain on our NHS. I say well done to Government for introducing it.
 
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Laila said:
Its fine, its a bitch having to stand outside but everyone has adapted to the ban pretty well and seeing medical research has proven the effects of second hand smoking and because it is such a drain on our NHS. I say well done to Government for introducing it.
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Thank you for understanding the feelings and rights of non-smokers. The doom-sayers who say businesses will go under are absurd. Perhaps they need new business models that cater to the majority of the population rather to those who choose to inflict poison on themselves and others.
 
Indeed, there is a time and a place for a government to defend business but above the health of its citizens is not it.
 
How is it in London? Are businesses closing? Are people fleeing the city?
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I suppose explaining the nature of incrementalism and people "adapting" (as Laila put it) to infringements on their rights would be an act of futility.

And to clarify, I support smoking bans in public places, but not in private businesses. If you don't like it, take your business elsewhere, it's as simple as that. No need to go crying to the government every time something doesn't go one's way.
 
Ethereal said:
I suppose explaining the nature of incrementalism and people "adapting" (as Laila put it) to infringements on their rights would be an act of futility.

And to clarify, I support smoking bans in public places, but not in private businesses. If you don't like it, take your business elsewhere, it's as simple as that. No need to go crying to the government every time something doesn't go one's way.
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You are the one who is crying. Business is "public access". There is no right to spread poison in a place that is accessable to the public.
 
ludahai said:
You are the one who is crying. Business is "public access". There is no right to spread poison in a place that is accessable to the public.
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Private business is a different matter.

If i choose to go to a club or pub or any other business which welcomes smokers, i should be allowed to do so. It should be the Non smoker who enters at their own risk.
 
Laila said:
Private business is a different matter.

If i choose to go to a club or pub or any other business which welcomes smokers, i should be allowed to do so. It should be the Non smoker who enters at their own risk.
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If a business is offering a service to the public, the government has the right to regulate it. This is true in Western democracies, and even more true in Asia. Part of the issue in this part of the world is the population density we have to face. We live with population densities that people in the West simply do not understand. As such, a small amount of freedom must be given up in order to maintain an orderly society that protects the rights of the majority of the people.
 
Public areas = fine. Im willing to comply but private businesses? Closed areas? A non smoker needs some personal responsibility.
If you don't want to be around smoke, don't go into certain clubs which is certain to be dominated by smokers.
 
ludahai said:
If a business is offering a service to the public, the government has the right to regulate it.
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It is also the right of the nonsmoker to not go into a smoking establishment. I don't buy into the whole persecution of smokers and the "b-b-but it's my health they are harming" bull****. If an establishment is doing the level of business it wants by welcoming smokers, it should be their right to do so and nonsmokers who puss out over the topic of smoking should just not go. If that is enough to hurt the business, then the market decided rather than some fascist government involvement.
 
You are the one who is crying.
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The "I know you are but what am I?" tactic is it? Come now, you're better than that...

Business is "public access".
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There is a difference between public access and public domain. The public domain is collectively owned by the populace, as such they have a right to manage its operation, conversely, a private business owner permits the public to access their property. You do not have a right to occupy their property - much less dictate the manner in which they run their business - unless they permit it.

If you do not like the way an individual runs their business then you are free to leave anytime you wish. It's that simple. No need to bust out your camera phone and start hollering for the government thugs every time someone offends your delicate sensibilities.

There is no right to spread poison in a place that is accessable to the public.
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Your logic is ass-backwards. It's not your property, end of story. That you could feasibly gain access to said property does not entitle you to manage its affairs.
 
Ethereal said:
The "I know you are but what am I?" tactic is it? Come now, you're better than that...
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:mrgreen:

There is a difference between public access and public domain. The public domain is collectively owned by the populace, as such they have a right to manage its operation, conversely, a private business owner permits the public to access their property. You do not have a right to occupy their property - much less dictate the manner in which they run their business - unless they permit it.
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However, once you permit that access, you then grant the government certain rights to regulate that business in the interests of the public. Unless you are advocating absolutely NO government interference at all in the operations of private business. The government issues the business permit and has the right to make reasonable restrictions in the public interest. This is especially important in a place as crowded as Taiwan - one of the world's most crowded countries.

If you do not like the way an individual runs their business then you are free to leave anytime you wish. It's that simple. No need to bust out your camera phone and start hollering for the government thugs every time someone offends your delicate sensibilities.
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Hey - I am just following the law. Why can't the businesses?

Your logic is ass-backwards. It's not your property, end of story. That you could feasibly gain access to said property does not entitle you to manage its affairs.
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When they open up their business, it becomes public access and the government has the right and responsibility to protect the public.

This law also included places like bus stops and public parks.

You live in a country that is not as crowded as Taiwan. Only one country in the world (with more than 10 million people) is more crowded than Taiwan - and our population is concentrated in a small part of the country. That means we need to give up a little more of this "freedom" in the public interest.
 
ludahai said:
:mrgreen:



However, once you permit that access, you then grant the government certain rights to regulate that business in the interests of the public. Unless you are advocating absolutely NO government interference at all in the operations of private business. The government issues the business permit and has the right to make reasonable restrictions in the public interest. This is especially important in a place as crowded as Taiwan - one of the world's most crowded countries.



Hey - I am just following the law. Why can't the businesses?



When they open up their business, it becomes public access and the government has the right and responsibility to protect the public.

This law also included places like bus stops and public parks.

You live in a country that is not as crowded as Taiwan. Only one country in the world (with more than 10 million people) is more crowded than Taiwan - and our population is concentrated in a small part of the country. That means we need to give up a little more of this "freedom" in the public interest.
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No, you think some should give up more freedoms to others. Again, I don't care how crowded you are, don't go into a smoking establishment if you have that big a problem with it. It's really simple.
 
jallman said:
No, you think some should give up more freedoms to others. Again, I don't care how crowded you are, don't go into a smoking establishment if you have that big a problem with it. It's really simple.
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You do not have the freedom to emit poison into the air without the government being able to have a say in it to protect the health of the vast majority of people who do not smoke. BTW, due to how crowded many places here are, smoking in some establishments does indeed affect its neighbors.
 
ludahai said:
article here



Time for non-smokers to take the offensive against smokers. Some local governments (including where I live) are providing incentives to provide evidence of non-compliance and offering a portion of the fine money to those who provide photographic evidence leading to the imposition and payment of fines.
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I am fine with the bans on smoking, but providing incentives to those who rat out their neighbors is absolutely ridiculous. It's none of your business whether someone wants to follow a law or not, as it's simply a matter between the enforcer of the law, and the law breaker.

I love to read books about dystopia, like 1984 and We, and turning neighbors on neighbors appears to be a common theme of dystopia. You should not be happy with that, you should be scared.
 
ludahai said:
You do not have the freedom to emit poison into the air without the government being able to have a say in it to protect the health of the vast majority of people who do not smoke. BTW, due to how crowded many places here are, smoking in some establishments does indeed affect its neighbors.
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You act as if smokers are belching global air pollution. They aren't, no matter how much you need that hyperbole to suppress their individual choices. If you don't like smoke, don't go into a smoking establishment. It's that simple.
 
Arch Enemy said:
I am fine with the bans on smoking, but providing incentives to those who rat out their neighbors is absolutely ridiculous. It's none of your business whether someone wants to follow a law or not, as it's simply a matter between the enforcer of the law, and the law breaker.
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It is my business if someone's not following the law affects me or my family. If I am waiting for a bus at a bus stop and a smoker does not follow the law and lights up while I am waiting, it affects me. If I am at a park with my family while my children are playing and someone lights up, it affects myself and my children. If someone lights up inside a 7-11 while I am in line, it affects me.
 
ludahai said:
You are the one who is crying. Business is "public access". There is no right to spread poison in a place that is accessable to the public.
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pure idiocy
 
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