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Obama camp 'prepared to talk to Hamas'

Notice that I am not saying Israel has no role in this. What I do argue is that Israel's actions have far more legitimacy than their enemies.

Israel's government was democratically elected and have legitimacy.
Likewise Hamas was democratically elected and has the same legitimacy.

You, on the other hand, as well as too many others, attempt to justify terrorism and blame the victims of terrorism for being terrorized.

I haven't blamed terrorism on anyone.

Hey, who said Euro anti-Semitism died following WWII?

Seeing it was France and UK that first supported Israel and gave it weapons, i resent that.

Because she is a sovereign nation. Because she has been under seige since her founding. Because the war against her is a war against Judaism

Rightt, now we go into religious territory.
War against Judaism ... right :/

Coming from someone whose religion only offers poverty, despair and terror.

No thanks.

LOL
Every religion has blood in its History.
Why people think Islam will somehow be perfect is beyond stupid.
Muslims have done good things and bad things, that is the cycle of human beings.
 
Gutless? How so?

Your backpedaling equivocation.

No, it wasn't "effective" mocking. It was quite boring. At least calling me a poo-poo head would have had a rudimentary form of humor. Sarcastically typing "genius" is not very effective. It makes you seem like you are incapable of actually making a point and must rely on ad hom instead of intellect. Quite the opposite of "effective", IMO.

You're still responding to it.

For trying and failing to isolate Hamas? Agreed.

Sorry, but Hamas has been isolated. You don't see the regions government's coming to their aid as they have in the past. In fact, it's nearly clear that the regional governments desire Fatah's return.

Talking to them is a "reward"? How? They've already been given power in the region, what does talking to them do exactly?

It rewards them. It legitimizes their behavior. But, of course, to someone like you, there's no difference in standing between the US and, say, a lesser power who would be used as back-channel diplomatic source. Instead, hey, the US is just another nation and speaking directly to the terrorists doesn't at all legitimize Hamas's behavior.

If talking doesn't work, what's the difference? What is your fundamental grievance with an attempt, just an attempt, at diplomacy?

I don't have any.

It's the insanity that must underscore the thinking that more, more, more, more, unending talking will result in any alternative result.

As I said, it was a maybe statement. I do not profess to know the minds of Hamas. I know that not talking to them hasn't done **** except make things worse. So it follows that perhaps doing the opposite of what has failed is the correct approach.

But they have been talked to.

The point you made was that the conflict was "simple" and could be summed up in once sentence. What else is there to "try again" at?

The clear point was that one side wants to destroy the other. This is explicitly been acknowledged by that one side.

Overused, unoriginal, and simple-minded ad hom. You don't agree with me, so that means that I MUST be a terror apologist. Again, "poo-poo head" would have been a more intelligent attack on me personally.

No, your comments regarding the terrorists reveal your apologism, not my mere disagreement with you.
 
They're not. Your pals are.

Hamas is the side launching attacks from schools and densely populated neighborhoods...that you can't make sense of that simply reveals your sickening support of Arab and Muslim terrorists.

I wish your pals in Syria and Iran agreed.

I have no pals that are terrorists, i don't think we'd get along.

Hamas does do that but Israel in the last week or so has targeted schools, mosques and densely populated neighbours.
 
I
Hamas does do that but Israel in the last week or so has targeted schools, mosques and densely populated neighborhoods....
Wow. How dishonest of you.
 
Israel's government was democratically elected and have legitimacy.
Likewise Hamas was democratically elected and has the same legitimacy.

Uh, elections don't make democracy.

I haven't blamed terrorism on anyone.

No? Then why are you justifying Hamas's behavior by commenting that the Jews settled themselves in a region populated by Arabs? That comment alone inherently means that Israel's decision to settle there is the root cause of the terror she is subjected to.

Seeing it was France and UK that first supported Israel and gave it weapons, i resent that.

That doesn't begin to address my comment.

Rightt, now we go into religious territory.
War against Judaism ... right :/

I see, so now you say that the Arabs and Muslims stated purpose is not to annihilate the Jews?

LOL
Every religion has blood in its History.
Why people think Islam will somehow be perfect is beyond stupid.
Muslims have done good things and bad things, that is the cycle of human beings.

Doesn't address my point which is what Islam has rendered its adherents to....poverty, despair, and terrorism. It's not like it's been Christianity, capitalism, or democracy that has left Arab states is such dysfunction and as sponsors of holy war...errr...terrorism.
 
Wow. How dishonest of you.

Erm, are you saying that is a lie?
Has Israel targeted schools? Yes.
Has Israel fired into a area that is populated? Yes.
 
I have no pals that are terrorists, i don't think we'd get along.

Hamas does do that but Israel in the last week or so has targeted schools, mosques and densely populated neighbours.

Of course Israel has. That's where Hamas congregates, fights from, stocks weapons, and launches rockets from.

Your argument would, of course, say that Israel cannot defend herself because their enemies are using women and children as shields.

Sorry, but no nation is obligated to enter into such a suicide pact.

Notice, not a single breath of criticism towards Hamas for deliberately putting Palestinian women and children in harm's way. Not surprising.
 
Erm, are you saying that is a lie?
Has Israel targeted schools? Yes.
Has Israel fired into a area that is populated? Yes.

Your implication is that because Israel is fighting her enemy where they deliberately set up shop that their actions are equivalent to the specified intent to kill as many Jew civilians as possible.

Sickening.

This is the problem with multiculturalism...it requires gross moral equivalencies.
 
Uh, elections don't make democracy.

Righttt ...

No? Then why are you justifying Hamas's behavior by commenting that the Jews settled themselves in a region populated by Arabs? That comment alone inherently means that Israel's decision to settle there is the root cause of the terror she is subjected to.

You don't think so? Really?
There was always going to be resistence to that
I don't justify Hamas or Israel's behaviour.
I personally think Israel/Palestine/that strip of land should be given back to UK if both sides cannot quit the whining and bitching and Israelis be relocated to US and Palestinians Jordan

I see, so now you say that the Arabs and Muslims stated purpose is not to annihilate the Jews?

No one wants to wipe out Jews.
I know of no Muslim who wants to annihilate Jews.

Doesn't address my point which is what Islam has rendered its adherents to....poverty, despair, and terrorism. It's not like it's been Christianity, capitalism, or democracy that has left Arab states is such dysfunction and as sponsors of holy war...errr...terrorism.

Yup, thats christianity LMAO
Between pedophilia and deaths, im sure it is brilliant ... *cough*
 
This is the problem with multiculturalism...it requires gross moral equivalencies.

Multiculturalism? Okay .. :confused: :confused:
 
Erm, are you saying that is a lie?
Has Israel targeted schools? Yes.
Has Israel fired into a area that is populated? Yes.
Yes. You lied. Bald-faced.

Hamas was hiding in the schools, mosques and populated neighborhoods.
Israel targeted Hamas, not the schools, etc.

You know this, you simply cannot bring yourself to admit it.
 
Notice, not a single breath of criticism towards Hamas for deliberately putting Palestinian women and children in harm's way. Not surprising.

I beg to differ, Egypt condemned and so did other Arab countries.
And if you meant me not criticising Hamas, i suggest re reading some of my posts.
 
Your backpedaling equivocation.

What was backpedaling about it? I said "maybe" in the original post, as in "perhaps", or "hypothetically". I was sticking with the "You never know until you try" theme I had created. I don't KNOW that this would be effective, so I cannot lay any claim to anything concrete.

I never claimed that it was the reason behind Hamas, just that it was hypothetically possible that it could be. I see no equivocation, as I have used the definition the same in all cases.

You're still responding to it.

:confused: So if it elicits a repsonse about how ineffective it is, that makes it effective?



Sorry, but Hamas has been isolated. You don't see the regions government's coming to their aid as they have in the past. In fact, it's nearly clear that the regional governments desire Fatah's return.

Hamas gained power while they are being "isolated". Gaza has been isolated, but Hamas is stronger now than they were before.

I agree that Fatah is by far and away a better option that Hamas because Fatah is not a bunch of scumbags who hide behind chidlren, but while Hamas has power, they should be dealt with as though they have the power.

It rewards them. It legitimizes their behavior. But, of course, to someone like you, there's no difference in standing between the US and, say, a lesser power who would be used as back-channel diplomatic source. Instead, hey, the US is just another nation and speaking directly to the terrorists doesn't at all legitimize Hamas's behavior.

I don't think the US talking to them legitimizes their behavior, it legitimizes the Palestianian GRIEVANCES. Many of theose grievances are legit. Hamas is a bunch of scumbags who hide behind children, but they got "legitimized" by a popular vote done while the US was "isolating" them.

I think an about face on the issue is necessary to prevent them form gaining further power.

I don't have any.

It's the insanity that must underscore the thinking that more, more, more, more, unending talking will result in any alternative result.

But they have been talked to.

I'm talking specifically about the US talking to Hamas. That hasn't been done.


The clear point was that one side wants to destroy the other. This is explicitly been acknowledged by that one side.

And I'm saying that we should at least try to talk themout of this stance. I don;t think bombing them out of it is possible. It only fuels them to become worse, IMO.



No, your comments regarding the terrorists reveal your apologism, not my mere disagreement with you.

Can you please illustrate the specific apologies I've made?
 
Where is your condemnation on civilian deaths?
Or is it only reserved for when Israelis die?
:roll:
The mortar fire came from outside the school rather than inside.

Either way, the TARGET if the Israeli fire was the Hamas mortars.

Hamas put the mortars outside the school so that people like you would have yet another thin excuse to equivocate Israeli actions with those of Hamas.
 
:roll:
The mortar fire came from outside the school rather than inside.

Either way, the TARGET if the Israeli fire was the Hamas mortars.

Hamas put the mortars outside the school so that people like you would have yet another thin excuse to equivocate Israeli actions with those of Hamas.


You disregard the fact that a school was targeted incorrectly and as a result civilians, children amongst them died.

I find that absolutely disgusting and hypocritical.
You want me to condemn Hamas killing the one or is it now two Israeli that died but can't even muster up the decency to condemn Israel when it is in the wrong.
 
You disregard the fact that a school was targeted incorrectly and as a result civilians, children amongst them died.
You deliberately misrepresent the issue.
The -school- wasn't the target.
 
:roll:
The mortar fire came from outside the school rather than inside.

Either way, the TARGET if the Israeli fire was the Hamas mortars.

Hamas put the mortars outside the school so that people like you would have yet another thin excuse to equivocate Israeli actions with those of Hamas.

I agree that the target is the issue. Israel is not haphazardly attacking civilians on purpose as their primary targets, they are just not taking the steps I think are necessary to prevent civilian casualties as much as I'd like to see.

That being said, firing mortars from school grounds is totally indefensible. That is the ultimate in cowardly actions, IMO. It is Hamas trying to get civilians and children killed in order to gain an advantage in the PR war.
 
You deliberately misrepresent the issue.
The -school- wasn't the target.

Ignoring the point.
You are incapable aren't you of saying 1 wrong word about Israel and israel with the as much decency as Hamas cannot even admit it made a mistake and apologise and you cannot condemn?
That is sick.
 
Ignoring the point.
No... I'm not letting you misrepesent the issue.

Israel did not target the school, it targeted the Hamas mortars that were firing in the vicinity. Had Hamas not put the mortars near the school, Israel would not have shelled the area.

Hamas, not Israel, is -directly- responsible for the civilian deaths noted here -- something you knowto be true, but will never, ever admit.
 
Israel just admitted that no rockets was being fired from the school yet they chose to still bomb a school?

Either Israel soldiers are ****ing stupid or they knew what they were doing and did it anyway.

This incident is on Israel not Hamas.
 
Israel just admitted that no rockets was being fired from the school yet they chose to still bomb a school?
You are misrepresting the facts yet again.

Pathetic.

Hamas thanks you for your service.
 
Hamas thanks you for your service.

I find it equally pathetic you cannot condemn the deaths of civilians yet expect us to bequeath that to Israelis. Yeah right.

They are very welcome :roll:
 
I find it equally pathetic you cannot condemn the deaths of civilians yet expect us to bequeath that to Israelis. Yeah right.
Are you ever going to admit (even just to yourself) that the Israelis were firing at the mortars, not the school?
 
I agree that the target is the issue. Israel is not haphazardly attacking civilians on purpose as their primary targets, they are just not taking the steps I think are necessary to prevent civilian casualties as much as I'd like to see.

Your ignorance has no bounds.

Israel is using smart weapons. Israel is warning residents to evacuate neighborhoods before they attack.

What the hell would satisfy you?

That being said, firing mortars from school grounds is totally indefensible. That is the ultimate in cowardly actions, IMO. It is Hamas trying to get civilians and children killed in order to gain an advantage in the PR war.

You think so? :roll:

I mean, isn't this already self-evident?
 
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