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Protests over BART shooting turn violent

dirtpoorchris

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Po Po shoot handcuffed, grounded man in the back.

LiveLeak.com - Reply to Beck64's video of BART Shooting...much clearer video
LiveLeak.com - BART OFFICIALS RESPONCE TO OFFICER SHOOTING

cbs5.com - Home Video Surfaces Of Oakland BART Shooting

OAKLAND (CBS 5 / BCN) ―

Police Fatally Shoot Man At Oakland BART Station (1/2/2009)
A home video has surfaced showing the events surrounding the shooting death of 22-year-old man by police at a Bay Area Rapid Transit station in Oakland early New Year's day. A copy of the videotape was provided Saturday to CBS 5 by the woman who captured the scene on camera.

Karina Vargas told CBS 5 that she was making the tape available so the public would know what transpired shortly after 2 a.m. Thursday at BART's Fruitvale station when Oscar Grant was shot.

And this is why we need to make it so that if a cop tries to take a camera they get fired and put on a sex offender list.
 
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Re: Po Po shoot handcuffed, grounded man in the back.


This was an interesting issue and a worthy topic to discuss in someplace like the Breaking News forum, but that wasn't a very productive OP.
 
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Man's Fatal Shooting by San Francisco Subway Police Prompts Probe, Plans for Lawsuit

FOXNews.com - Man's Fatal Shooting by San Francisco Subway Police Prompts Probe, Plans for $25M Lawsuit - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

Law enforcement officials urged patience while they investigated details surrounding the fatal New Year's Day shooting of a 22-year-old man by a transit agency police officer.

Bay Area Rapid Transit Police Chief Gary Gee said on Sunday that the agency is "committed to completing an unbiased, thorough and detailed investigation" of the shooting death of Oscar Grant.

"This case is not even four days cold. We're in the early stages of the investigation and we will do a very thorough job," he said.

Several unanswered questions remained after BART officers went to Oakland's Fruitvale station to investigate reports of a supposed brawl on a train on which Grant was riding around 2 a.m. Thursday.

Video:

YouTube - Reactions From BART Officials Over New Video Of Fatal Shooting

Short video:

YouTube - Oakland Shooting: Oscar Grant killed by BART Police Officer (name released!)

As best I can see, the only possible explanation is that he thought he was pulling his tazer and then accidentally fired. The guy does seem distressed and surprised after he fires.
 
Re: Po Po shoot handcuffed, grounded man in the back.

This was an interesting issue and a worthy topic to discuss in someplace like the Breaking News forum, but that wasn't a very productive OP.

I wanted to put it in breaking news but only had videos at first. I found news clippings later and forgot that I could then put it into breaking. Doh.
 
Re: Po Po shoot handcuffed, grounded man in the back.

I wanted to put it in breaking news but only had videos at first. I found news clippings later and forgot that I could then put it into breaking. Doh.

No worries, it's been moved. :2wave:
 
Re: Man's Fatal Shooting by San Francisco Subway Police Prompts Probe, Plans for Laws

As best I can see, the only possible explanation is that he thought he was pulling his tazer and then accidentally fired. The guy does seem distressed and surprised after he fires.

I thought the same thing. His body lang. makes it seem like an accident. Then again maybe he did it out of spite and then regained his coolness.
Sometimes when I get mad at my brothers I regret it RIGHT afterwards and regain my cool.
 
Re: Man's Fatal Shooting by San Francisco Subway Police Prompts Probe, Plans for Laws

Bad training. The cop obviously screwed up.

Reach back under stress for handcuffs and instead pull the service weapon and without thinking when you pull the weapon you also pull the trigger. Muscle memory and associative conditioning MAY have been at fault here.

Terrible.
 
Re: Man's Fatal Shooting by San Francisco Subway Police Prompts Probe, Plans for Laws

Bad training. The cop obviously screwed up.

Reach back under stress for handcuffs and instead pull the service weapon and without thinking when you pull the weapon you also pull the trigger. Muscle memory and associative conditioning MAY have been at fault here.

Terrible.

I have had moderate training with sightless handcuffing and no matter what, I believe it's impossible to confuse a pistol with handcuffs. Now if the pistol was confused with a taser then I could see it being an idiotic mistake. But handcuffs in no way feel like a gun, especially to someone who handles the two regularly.
 
Re: Man's Fatal Shooting by San Francisco Subway Police Prompts Probe, Plans for Laws

At best, the way things look is that you can say it's accidental. That's, IMO, absolute best case scenario. If it was accidental, the officer needs to be brought up on manslaughter charges and never again allowed to work in the field of law enforcement. Worst case is that it's purposeful, though I can't imagine how an officer would purposefully execute a restrained suspect. I'm more inclined to believe it was accidental. Though if purposeful, the officer needs to be brought up on murder charges. I think that the chance that it was justifiable is almost zero.
 
Source [SF Gate | Protests over BART shooting turn violent]

A protest over the fatal shooting by a BART police officer of an unarmed man mushroomed into a violent confrontation tonight, as a faction of protesters smashed a police car and storefronts, set several cars on fire and blocked streets in downtown Oakland.

Protesters smashed the storefronts of McDonald's as well as stores called Creative African Braids and Oakland Yoon's Pharmacy. Cars along 14th Street were smashed, and some were set ablaze.

[...]

Oakland Police Officer Michael Cardoza parked his car across the intersection of Eighth and Madison streets, to prevent traffic from flowing toward Broadway and into the protest. But he told The Chronicle that a group of 30 to 40 protesters quickly surrounded his car and started smashing it with bottles and rocks.

Cardoza jumped out of the car and said some protesters tried to set the car on fire, while others jumped on top of the hood - incidents repeatedly shown on television. Cardoza said the protesters "were trying to entice us into doing something."

ba-bart_0499632391.jpg

There are a few more personal accounts inside. A lot of it has the ring of random violence and destruction that can only be described as a riot
 
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That is straight up murder.

Anyone find it a bit odd that the family's lawyer is wearing a hoodie when being filmed by the news?
 
That is straight up murder.

Anyone find it a bit odd that the family's lawyer is wearing a hoodie when being filmed by the news?

I can't imagine what the police officer can use as a reason for this. It makes no sense.

I'm not sure if it's entirely clear that this man is a lawyer. They say he represents the family, but they didn't say he was a lawyer. If he is a lawyer, I agree--why the heck would he wear a hoodie?
 
This is exactly what pisses me off about Oakland. Yes, the shooting of the unarmed man was completely unjustified and the man responsible should face justice. However, how the hell does starting a riot help anything? The system hasn't even had time to work. Using a real cause to justify senseless violence is unacceptable.
 
This is exactly what pisses me off about Oakland. Yes, the shooting of the unarmed man was completely unjustified and the man responsible should face justice. However, how the hell does starting a riot help anything? The system hasn't even had time to work. Using a real cause to justify senseless violence is unacceptable.

I wonder how fast the system would work if Oscar Grant had killed a cop and how much time some people here would give the system to work.
 
That is straight up murder.

Anyone find it a bit odd that the family's lawyer is wearing a hoodie when being filmed by the news?

I know a hoodie is the sweat shirt but that's not something worn around here. Does it symbolize something?
 
I wonder how fast the system would work if Oscar Grant had killed a cop and how much time some people here would give the system to work.

They say the wheels of justice turn slowly. It seems they can be made to turn faster at times, but when they have to turn in the opposite direction they just seem to creep along.

No one doubts that the cop as well as BART will pay BIG TIME for this error in judgment and training.

And, fwiw, I doubt anyone can say he shot Grant intentionally.

It was obviously a situation where he knew he wouldn't escape scrutiny in commission of the act. It was obviously a situation where pulling the weapon was unnecessary.

I suspect the officer went into a "cruise control" mindset where he stopped actually thinking and just responded automatically.

Stressful situation. Reaching for handcuffs. And then muscle memory kicked in. Cops spend hours and hours thinking about and preparing for the day when they may have to draw and discharge their weapon. And simply having his cuffs on the gunbelt on the opposite side as his holster might have prevented this.

Of course I don't know any of the details beyond what I see on the video, but I can imagine it being just a horrible, horrible accident for which the victim, his loved ones, the cop and his loved ones and his department will pay for the rest of their lives.
 
I wonder how fast the system would work if Oscar Grant had killed a cop and how much time some people here would give the system to work.

I can pretty much guarantee you that the cops wouldn't be rioting through their neighborhoods, burning their own stores.
 
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