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Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

You are correct! When the British Empire came from Europe, colonized and ruled Palestine (and other Third Word countries), they found no human beings in all of these lands.

Britain did not colonize Palestine. Palestine did not exist prior to the Mandate. It was part of the Ottomon province of Syria. It was a League of Nations Mandate, NOT a British colony.

Please get your history straight.
 
All of the world's problems are the fault of the UK. Didn't you know that? :mrgreen:

Yes. US and Britain are behind most sufferings, miseries, and poverty in our planet. Look for their past and current practices.

Who hunted and shipped Africans and made them slaves in America. Who used the first Atomic bomb on earth? Who invaded Vietnam? ..etc.

British is the country of the most black history. They ruled Africa, India, many Middle East countries by force and killed the people who defended them.

Who created the rotten racial segregation in South African and treated black people as dogs. Please read the western history. Why not do we have to think that history is repeating itself through allegation of democracy, freedom, and terrorism fight.

This is history of the west culture and you can not deny it. The current scene is a reflection of that history.
 
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British is the country of the most black history. They ruled Africa, India, many Middle East countries by force and killed the people who defended them.

Yes the British did all of that but likewise we brought something to every one of those countries. UK did bad things yes, but it also did good.
Perhaps Africa would be further than where it is now if it didn't cling onto the past and what occured a very long time.
 
Yes the British did all of that but likewise we brought something to every one of those countries. UK did bad things yes, but it also did good.
Perhaps Africa would be further than where it is now if it didn't cling onto the past and what occured a very long time.


If you agree they are so, and of course the US is so, why do we have to believe them in their reasons for backing Israelis? and also in fighting in Iraq, Afghanistan, and their cries about Darfur in Sudan. Are you a believer of the white man burden?

Britain did no good but shaped these countries to their interests and blocked the natural development of these societies. Why do you think these countries have to share with you the opinion that British brought something to them? Nobody needs British or US good and they have to leave people alone. We ask them to concentrate on their affluent societies problems and leave others to solve their own problems.
 
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Nobody needs British or US good and they have to leave people alone.

I support UK backing Israel?
I actually think UK should not support neither side.
Where is Africans in dealing with their own problems? Condemning Genocide?
And wth is a white mans burden?

I don't think Africa or parts of ME can really talk about not needing US or UK when both those countries are the largest contributors to aid
 
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Yes. US and Britain are behind most sufferings, miseries, and poverty in our planet. Look for their past and current practices.

Who hunted and shipped Africans and made them slaves in America. Who used the first Atomic bomb on earth? Who invaded Vietnam? ..etc.

British is the country of the most black history. They ruled Africa, India, many Middle East countries by force and killed the people who defended them.

Who created the rotten racial segregation in South African and treated black people as dogs. Please read the western history. Why not do we have to think that history is repeating itself through allegation of democracy, freedom, and terrorism fight.

This is history of the west culture and you can not deny it. The current scene is a reflection of that history.

I was being sarcastic and you respond with a bunch of BS.
 
Yes the British did all of that but likewise we brought something to every one of those countries. UK did bad things yes, but it also did good.
Perhaps Africa would be further than where it is now if it didn't cling onto the past and what occured a very long time.

Most of the problems in Africa today have been brought onto them by their own actions. BRitain was not responsible for the Rwandan genocide. It is not respondible for the crisis in Zimbabwe. It is not reponsible for the Somali crisis or the grave situation in Darfur. Africans fight amongst themselves. It is about time for Africans to take ownership of their own problems rather than cast them off in the West.
 
It is about time for Africans to take ownership of their own problems rather than cast them off in the West.

Agreed, and the continual dependency of foreign aid cannot be healthy to the countries growth
 
Yes. US and Britain are behind most sufferings, miseries, and poverty in our planet. Look for their past and current practices.

Who hunted and shipped Africans and made them slaves in America. Who used the first Atomic bomb on earth? Who invaded Vietnam? ..etc.

British is the country of the most black history. They ruled Africa, India, many Middle East countries by force and killed the people who defended them.

Who created the rotten racial segregation in South African and treated black people as dogs. Please read the western history. Why not do we have to think that history is repeating itself through allegation of democracy, freedom, and terrorism fight.

This is history of the west culture and you can not deny it. The current scene is a reflection of that history.

I deny that America is the demon you want it to be. Your characterization seems so biased against the USA and the West that it disqualifies you as a serious (new) poster.

For example, the Muslim slave trade lasted more than a millennium and still is condoned in Islam. And as far as racial and gender equality is concerned Islam is inherently unequal because women and non believers can never be the equal of men and believers. This is not to bash Islam. It is to give you a clue as to your post's lack of insight.
 
Yes. US and Britain are behind most sufferings, miseries, and poverty in our planet. Look for their past and current practices.

Who hunted and shipped Africans and made them slaves in America. Who used the first Atomic bomb on earth? Who invaded Vietnam? ..etc.

British is the country of the most black history. They ruled Africa, India, many Middle East countries by force and killed the people who defended them.

Who created the rotten racial segregation in South African and treated black people as dogs. Please read the western history. Why not do we have to think that history is repeating itself through allegation of democracy, freedom, and terrorism fight.

This is history of the west culture and you can not deny it. The current scene is a reflection of that history.

It's totally true but did the Arabs behave differently (except the nuclear bomb which they have not yet used)?
 
I'd also like to point out Ammro that Africans also sold slaves and Arabs had been in the slave trade much longer than white people.
 
You are correct! When the British Empire came from Europe, colonized and ruled Palestine (and other Third Word countries), they found no human beings in all of these lands.

The Restoration of Israel Was Not a Product of European Imperialism

Another common argument put forward by the PLO is that Israel is really the product of European imperialism and hence it does not represent a legitimate national movement of its own. As a result, Zionism came to be portrayed in the Arab world as "a hyper-aggressive variant of colonialism."16

This perception has also penetrated the discourse of Israel's European detractors. Initially, it is true that the idea of a restored Jewish homeland received its greatest push from the declaration in 1917 of the British Foreign Secretary, Lord Balfour, who called for its establishment after the British defeat of the Ottoman Empire. Yet, ironically, during the subsequent years of the British Mandate over Palestine, European (and especially British) imperial policies actually obstructed the emergence of the Jewish national home.

First, the territory of Transjordan was cut off from the Palestine Mandate and granted by the British to the Hashemite dynasty from Arabia, who had lost their ancestral homeland, the Hijaz, to the Saudi clan of eastern Arabia.

Second, the British sought to further partition the remaining territory of western Palestine into Jewish and Arab states, reducing the area for Jewish settlement even more. Finally, with the 1939 White Paper, the British restricted Jewish immigration into Palestine just as Nazi Germany began its conquest of Europe and its Holocaust against European Jewry.

In this context, it is not surprising that Jewish underground movements waged an anti-colonial war in the 1940s against continuing British rule. In other words, Israel was anti-imperialist when it first emerged.

By contrast, the Arab states at the time were aligned with the imperial powers. The Arab states that invaded the nascent State of Israel fielded armies that were trained and supplied by the French and British Empires. During Israel's War of Independence, British officers commanded the Arab Legion of Transjordan, while the Royal Air Force, defending Egyptian airspace, fought the Israeli Air Force over the Sinai Peninsula in 1949.

And the nations of the world did not lift a finger when the Jews of Jerusalem were surrounded and faced annihilation, even though the UN had called for internationalization of the city. Only the Israel Defense Forces broke Jerusalem's siege and saved its Jewish residents.

In short, Jewish independence in Israel was won by a native and indigenous community acting in its own defense with little help from outside.

Answering the New Anti-Zionists
 
I think it was quite interesting listening to Gordon Brown on the Andrew Marr show today with the way he condemned the situation in Gaza,

"For the situation to improve Israel needs secure borders and the Palestinians a viable state"

What i read into that is the preceding part of the statement must happen, to allow the latter to be realised. Hamas must stop the Rocket attacks.

Paul.
 
There are no guarantees. But doing something is preferable to simply wishing on the moon.

I disagree. I don't see any reason to have a war (which inevitably cause innocent casualties) with no clear goal in mind. Simply wanting to "do something" is not a valid reason to go to war, and seems more rooted in emotion than reason.

Tashah said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but the Taliban are still a power in Afghanistan. Does this infer that the initial US invasion was pointless and/or unnecessary?

No, it infers that the invasion and occupation were incompetently executed. If Israel was actually committed to toppling Hamas, I might be slightly more inclined to support this action (although there would still be much better ways of responding). But Israel has stated that they aren't even going to remove Hamas from power. This is sounding more and more like a repeat of 2006 Lebanon.

Tashah said:
Depends greatly on time and circumstance. Understandably, Abbas has no desire or intention to be viewed as an Israeli puppet.

Perhaps. But it's not much more desirable to be viewed as an incompetent leader who is unable to retain control over his own nation. If Hamas was removed, someone would fill the power vacuum and Fatah is the only logical choice.
 
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Perhaps. But it's not much more desirable to be viewed as an incompetent leader who is unable to retain control over his own nation. If Hamas was removed, someone would fill the power vacuum and Fatah is the only logical choice.

Let us not forget that Mahmoud Abbas, the head of Fatah, is the legitimate head of "state" of the PA, not Hamas who violently seized power in Gaza.
 
Let us not forget that Mahmoud Abbas, the head of Fatah, is the legitimate head of "state" of the PA, not Hamas who violently seized power in Gaza.

Of course. But that is irrelevant to whether or not an invasion (and possible occupation) is prudent.
 
You don't seem to get the point that property rules can change with administrations and government.
You really are an enemy of property aren't you.

Actually in these area they were usually done by ancient, unwritten custom. None of this changes the fact the Palestinians owned the property and land individually and collectively unless you can suggest that this "change" can rightfully mean it can be wiped out. Which of course would put you in direct opposition to official Catholic teaching.
 
Yes. US and Britain are behind most sufferings, miseries, and poverty in our planet. Look for their past and current practices.

Who hunted and shipped Africans and made them slaves in America. Who used the first Atomic bomb on earth? Who invaded Vietnam? ..etc.

British is the country of the most black history. They ruled Africa, India, many Middle East countries by force and killed the people who defended them.

Who created the rotten racial segregation in South African and treated black people as dogs. Please read the western history. Why not do we have to think that history is repeating itself through allegation of democracy, freedom, and terrorism fight.

This is history of the west culture and you can not deny it. The current scene is a reflection of that history.[/QUO

I think that if you look at slavery in history,you'll find that most blacks weren't hunted down by the white man.
Most were sold by their tribesman, to Muslim slave traders who bought them for trinkets from the village elders.

And as far as the white man ruining, Africa and the Middle East,I guess we did as far as automobiles, phones, tvs, modern medicine ,computers, electricity,plumbing,industry.

And the biggest one of all is free money in foreign aid.
 
Hamas siezed power in the Gaza strip through democratic elections, 77% turnout.

you can vote for whoever you want, so long as we choose them.

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Hamas sweeps to election victory

I have pondered that. Democracy can sure be a double edged sword.

The same Islamaniac that would argue that American citizens, that fall victim to terrorism, are not "innocent" by extention that they voted for and empowered the people they view as infidels. Yet, the same whacko would argue that all the "collateral damage" caused by Israel upon the "innocent Palestinian" citizens is unjustified.

I wonder how many Palestianians would vote for Hama's now? :mrgreen:
 
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I disagree. I don't see any reason to have a war (which inevitably cause innocent casualties) with no clear goal in mind. Simply wanting to "do something" is not a valid reason to go to war, and seems more rooted in emotion than reason.
You wouldn't protect your family unless you had a rock solid guarantee of success? Your logic is bullcrap.

No, it infers that the invasion and occupation were incompetently executed. If Israel was actually committed to toppling Hamas, I might be slightly more inclined to support this action (although there would still be much better ways of responding). But Israel has stated that they aren't even going to remove Hamas from power. This is sounding more and more like a repeat of 2006 Lebanon.
The current Israeli Defense Minister - Ehud Barak - is a career soldier. No one criticised 2006 Lebanon more than he did. Do you think he is actually stupid enough to reprise those mistakes? Do you think the Gaza and Lebanon theaters have anything in common? You really are slipping.
 
I wonder how many Palestianians would vote for Hama's now? :mrgreen:

Less than in the previous elections because many got killed.

But the percentage must be the same, maybe even higher.
 
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